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The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (9 Viewers)

  • Thread starter jimmyhillsfanclub
  • Start date Jun 8, 2016
Forums New posts

As of right now, how are thinking of voting? In or out

  • Remain

    Votes: 23 37.1%
  • Leave

    Votes: 35 56.5%
  • Undecided

    Votes: 3 4.8%
  • Not registered or not intention to vote

    Votes: 1 1.6%

  • Total voters
    62
  • Poll closed Jun 15, 2016.
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Otis

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 4, 2019
  • #30,416
chiefdave said:
Hoped this would happen shortly after the Brexit vote but I can't see it happening now. When push comes to shove the Tory and Labour sittings MPs will be more concerned about losing their seat than being in a party that actually represents their views.

It would make things a lot more interesting if there were three roughly equal sized parties for right, centre and left.
Click to expand...
Agree.

Lib Dems are too weak now and we need more than just two party politics.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 4, 2019
  • #30,417
Brighton Sky Blue said:
There have been polls showing that Labour would lose millions of votes to the Lib Dems if they backed May's Brexit. Plus the Tories are clearly angling to frame Brexit being shit on Labour and it seems to work with the gullible general public.
Click to expand...
Who said Corbyn should back May and her Brexit plan?

And would you like to explain how the Tories are trying to blame Brexit on Labour? Because most MP's don't want Brexit although most constituencies in England voted leave. And that is all parties.
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 4, 2019
  • #30,418
Astute said:
Who said Corbyn should back May and her Brexit plan?

And would you like to explain how the Tories are trying to blame Brexit on Labour? Because most MP's don't want Brexit although most constituencies in England voted leave. And that is all parties.
Click to expand...

Look at what they're saying in the Commons debates, QuestionTime, media appearances etc.
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 4, 2019
  • #30,419
chiefdave said:
Hoped this would happen shortly after the Brexit vote but I can't see it happening now. When push comes to shove the Tory and Labour sittings MPs will be more concerned about losing their seat than being in a party that actually represents their views.

It would make things a lot more interesting if there were three roughly equal sized parties for right, centre and left.
Click to expand...

No it would just allow the Tories to stay in in perpetuity
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 4, 2019
  • #30,420
Brighton Sky Blue said:
Look at what they're saying in the Commons debates, QuestionTime, media appearances etc.
Click to expand...
What are they saying?
 

Otis

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 4, 2019
  • #30,421
Astute said:
What are they saying?
Click to expand...
'Can we all stop talking about bloody Brexit?'
 

Captain Dart

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 4, 2019
  • #30,422
Otis said:
Agree.

Lib Dems are too weak now and we need more than just two party politics.
Click to expand...
FPTP pretty much scuppers the idea of a 3 party system. While there is no form of PR it would probably echo the fortunes of the Liberals, up and down but only influential once in a decade.
 
Reactions: shmmeee

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 4, 2019
  • #30,423
Captain Dart said:
FPTP pretty much scuppers the idea of a 3 party system. While there is no form of PR it would probably echo the fortunes of the Liberals, up and down but only influential once in a decade.
Click to expand...
UKIP changed everything ending in this farce we now have
 
Reactions: martcov

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 4, 2019
  • #30,424
Sky Blue Pete said:
UKIP changed everything ending in this farce we now have
Click to expand...
Other countries in the EU have a bigger problem than we had with UKIP. The difference with the UK was Cameron wanted his votes back from UKIP. He offered a referendum if they voted Conservative again. In other countries the equivalent to UKIP have got a bigger vote or are now even in charge of their countries.

The big problem is those running the EU. Just about every leader of the countries in the EU have said the EU needs to reform. But those in charge of the EU don't want to relinquish their power. So nothing happens.

So yes UKIP made a massive difference. But the blame lies with Cameron and the Tories for this shitfest. And it will continue throughout the EU until the power is handed back to the countries in the EU and not those who give each other the jobs who want to continue with the gravy train that the EU has become.
 
Reactions: shmmeee

Ian1779

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 4, 2019
  • #30,425
Sky Blue Pete said:
And Tories 7 points up in the polls. Insane
Click to expand...

Yet the poll 2 days before said Labour led by 1.

I think we can safely say that the polls are telling us that no-one really knows.
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Feb 4, 2019
  • #30,426
UK government promised Nissan $100 million after Brexit vote - CNN
 
Reactions: martcov

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 4, 2019
  • #30,427
UK ports to wave through EU goods without checks after no-deal Brexit, HMRC says

Interesting stuff can’t see how that leads to anything other than unhelpful
 
Reactions: martcov and Grappa

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Feb 4, 2019
  • #30,428
Sky Blue Pete said:
UK ports to wave through EU goods without checks after no-deal Brexit, HMRC says

Interesting stuff can’t see how that leads to anything other than unhelpful
Click to expand...

That sounds secure.
 
Reactions: martcov, Grappa and Sky Blue Pete
G

Grappa

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 4, 2019
  • #30,429
'Taking back control of our borders'
 
Reactions: bezzer, Deleted member 5849, martcov and 2 others

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 4, 2019
  • #30,430
chiefdave said:
Hoped this would happen shortly after the Brexit vote but I can't see it happening now. When push comes to shove the Tory and Labour sittings MPs will be more concerned about losing their seat than being in a party that actually represents their views.

It would make things a lot more interesting if there were three roughly equal sized parties for right, centre and left.
Click to expand...

There’s no such thing as “centre” though. It’s a myth. Take Liz Kendall and Anna Soubry for example, probably the closest of the two parties and have fundamental differences about how they’d run the country. See the mess of nice Tories and slightly brighter Greens that is the Lib Dem’s. Just ends up pissing everyone off.

What we need is the centre left and centre right to bang their heads together, realise they’ve lost the average man in the street and put together a policy platform which is radical yet realistic. That’s what Blair did, love him or hate him. Without that the extremes always come to the fore.

No big thinkers and no leaders in politics any more. No route to representation for working class people other than becoming a social justice activist, which doesn’t skill you up for leadership at all, and is repellent to most normal people. No pride in it from the new lot, just greasy pole climbing and shit faximilies of New Labour. And that’s on both sides.

It’s all fucked. We need an election just to hope some new blood appears that might actually lead us out of this mess in a few years time. Because fuck Boris vs Corbyn or even worse fucking Rudd vs Cooper or some shit at a GE in a few years time.

Frankly, some days I think Brexit is the least of our worries. Can’t leave our political class, or for that matter our electorate.
 
Reactions: Astute

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 4, 2019
  • #30,431
Sky Blue Pete said:
UK ports to wave through EU goods without checks after no-deal Brexit, HMRC says

Interesting stuff can’t see how that leads to anything other than unhelpful
Click to expand...
Similar would most probably happen the other side. Have you not seen what France says?
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Feb 4, 2019
  • #30,432
Astute said:
Similar would most probably happen the other side. Have you not seen what France says?
Click to expand...

Investing 50 million in ports and airports?
 
Reactions: martcov

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 4, 2019
  • #30,433
shmmeee said:
It’s all fucked. We need an election just to hope some new blood appears that might actually lead us out of this mess in a few years time. Because fuck Boris vs Corbyn or even worse fucking Rudd vs Cooper or some shit at a GE in a few years time.

Frankly, some days I think Brexit is the least of our worries. Can’t leave our political class, or for that matter our electorate.
Click to expand...
Can't disagree with any of your post. But one problem would be that I can't see May taking us through another GE whenever it happens. We could end up with Boris v Corbyn. I would want a third box for my cross to go in. None of these.

The best chance Labour would have would be to replace Corbyn. Or all I can see would be another Tory win.
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 4, 2019
  • #30,434
Astute said:
Can't disagree with any of your post. But one problem would be that I can't see May taking us through another GE whenever it happens. We could end up with Boris v Corbyn. I would want a third box for my cross to go in. None of these.

The best chance Labour would have would be to replace Corbyn. Or all I can see would be another Tory win.
Click to expand...

Once Brexit is done there’ll be an election I reckon. And it’ll need a leader in the same way post war needed a leader. Someone with a grand plan.

Sadly the reason Corbyn has won two leadership elections is he’s the only one with anything close to that, even if bits of it are mental and he’s mostly obsessed by foreign policy for some reason.

Owen Smith ain’t gonna rebuild Britain.
 
Reactions: Ian1779 and martcov

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 4, 2019
  • #30,435
Sick Boy said:
Investing 50 million in ports and airports?
Click to expand...

Strangely enough yes.....

France to invest €50m in ports and airports to prepare for hard Brexit

Calais port boss expects little disruption from a no-deal Brexit | Reuters
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 4, 2019
  • #30,436
shmmeee said:
Once Brexit is done there’ll be an election I reckon. And it’ll need a leader in the same way post war needed a leader. Someone with a grand plan.

Sadly the reason Corbyn has won two leadership elections is he’s the only one with anything close to that, even if bits of it are mental and he’s mostly obsessed by foreign policy for some reason.

Owen Smith ain’t gonna rebuild Britain.
Click to expand...
An election should be the way to go. May said she would go after Brexit. But I think they will tough it out with a new leader and hope for the best. Could be best in the long run as if it all goes tits up they can't blame Labour for anything. Let the Tories start and finish it.
 
S

SkyblueBazza

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 4, 2019
  • #30,437
Meanwhile some are beginning to blink perhaps?

"Germany's Merkel drops hint of a 'creative' Brexit compromise" - Germany's Merkel drops hint of a 'creative' Brexit compromise | Reuters

"Negotiate" is the word she means to use I think. Properly now.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Feb 5, 2019
  • #30,438
SkyblueBazza said:
Meanwhile some are beginning to blink perhaps?

"Germany's Merkel drops hint of a 'creative' Brexit compromise" - Germany's Merkel drops hint of a 'creative' Brexit compromise | Reuters

"Negotiate" is the word she means to use I think. Properly now.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Let’s see if the UK can come up with these ‘alternative solutions’ first. From reading that it isn’t going to be the kind of compromise many are hoping for.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 5, 2019
  • #30,439
Sick Boy said:
Let’s see if the UK can come up with these ‘alternative solutions’ first. From reading that it isn’t going to be the kind of compromise many are hoping for.
Click to expand...
The one thing you constantly refuse to do is consider all sides of the story. How about a comment on France also putting 50m into a no deal scenario?

France also runs a 10 billion surplus with the UK. And they have been the most outspoken so far. Macron loves the sound of his own voice. But as we know he does back down when it comes to it.

France fears Brexit blow to farms
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Feb 5, 2019
  • #30,440
Astute said:
The one thing you constantly refuse to do is consider all sides of the story. How about a comment on France also putting 50m into a no deal scenario?

France also runs a 10 billion surplus with the UK. And they have been the most outspoken so far. Macron loves the sound of his own voice. But as we know he does back down when it comes to it.

France fears Brexit blow to farms
Click to expand...

We are comparing a country putting 50million into its ports and airports to one looking to wave goods unchecked through its own.
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete and martcov

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Feb 5, 2019
  • #30,441
Astute said:
Can't disagree with any of your post. But one problem would be that I can't see May taking us through another GE whenever it happens. We could end up with Boris v Corbyn. I would want a third box for my cross to go in. None of these.

The best chance Labour would have would be to replace Corbyn. Or all I can see would be another Tory win.
Click to expand...

There’s no way they’d have Johnson as leader now
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 5, 2019
  • #30,442
Sick Boy said:
We are comparing a country putting 50million into its ports and airports to one looking to wave goods unchecked through its own.
Click to expand...

Yeah but if you see both sides of the coin street drugs are going to get cheaper because the market is going to be flooded, illegal guns and ammunition is going be cheaper because the market is going to be flooded and them nice illegal immigrants that no one who voted leave ever moan about are going to arrive in bigger numbers so everyone is a winner. If you didn’t refuse to consider both sides you would know that.
 
Reactions: martcov

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 5, 2019
  • #30,443
On a side note of course the French aren’t bothered by a no deal. Some delay at port versus emptying the camps around Calais. There’s a win scenario for France come what may.
 
Reactions: bezzer, martcov and Sky Blue Pete

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 5, 2019
  • #30,444
Sick Boy said:
We are comparing a country putting 50million into its ports and airports to one looking to wave goods unchecked through its own.
Click to expand...
So you didn't read the other link then. What a surprise. Or you did read it but you have a point to try and make as usual.

How about trying to have a debate on evidence and not just the evidence you want to put forward for once?
 

Captain Dart

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 5, 2019
  • #30,445
Sick Boy said:
Let’s see if the UK can come up with these ‘alternative solutions’ first. From reading that it isn’t going to be the kind of compromise many are hoping for.
Click to expand...
A compromise by definition is something neither side really wanted but can live with.

* Not same as a trade off where 2 sides give way on something the other side wants in return for something they want.
 
Reactions: Astute and Sky Blue Pete
S

SkyblueBazza

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 5, 2019
  • #30,446
Now had this been a UK initiative...I just wonder how it would have been received?

"German state ready to buy company stakes to protect core industry" - German state ready to buy company stakes to protect core industry | Reuters

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
 
Reactions: martcov

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 5, 2019
  • #30,447
SkyblueBazza said:
Now had this been a UK initiative...I just wonder how it would have been received?

"German state ready to buy company stakes to protect core industry" - German state ready to buy company stakes to protect core industry | Reuters

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Didn’t we pay £80m to Nissan?
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Feb 5, 2019
  • #30,448
SkyblueBazza said:
Now had this been a UK initiative...I just wonder how it would have been received?

"German state ready to buy company stakes to protect core industry" - German state ready to buy company stakes to protect core industry | Reuters

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

It would have been ignored and acted as though it hadn’t happened?
 
Reactions: martcov

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 5, 2019
  • #30,449
shmmeee said:
There’s no such thing as “centre” though. It’s a myth. Take Liz Kendall and Anna Soubry for example, probably the closest of the two parties and have fundamental differences about how they’d run the country. See the mess of nice Tories and slightly brighter Greens that is the Lib Dem’s. Just ends up pissing everyone off.

What we need is the centre left and centre right to bang their heads together, realise they’ve lost the average man in the street and put together a policy platform which is radical yet realistic. That’s what Blair did, love him or hate him. Without that the extremes always come to the fore.

No big thinkers and no leaders in politics any more. No route to representation for working class people other than becoming a social justice activist, which doesn’t skill you up for leadership at all, and is repellent to most normal people. No pride in it from the new lot, just greasy pole climbing and shit faximilies of New Labour. And that’s on both sides.

It’s all fucked. We need an election just to hope some new blood appears that might actually lead us out of this mess in a few years time. Because fuck Boris vs Corbyn or even worse fucking Rudd vs Cooper or some shit at a GE in a few years time.

Frankly, some days I think Brexit is the least of our worries. Can’t leave our political class, or for that matter our electorate.
Click to expand...
The centre just means cherry picking bits and pieces to appear more palatable to the key marginal seats wherever they are.

Anna Soubry is a Tory, her crocodile tears over constituents' livelihoods don't wash with me; her voting record says it all.
 
Reactions: shmmeee
S

SkyblueBazza

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 5, 2019
  • #30,450
Sky Blue Pete said:
Didn’t we pay £80m to Nissan?
Click to expand...
Which was entirely different. That was paid to a Japanese Corp to try to protect jobs already held...but there was uproar about it. This German protectionism...trying to stop foreign buy up of German businesses. And It has so far from what I have heard, met with indifference or just casual acceptance.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
 
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