Sick Boy
Super Moderator
What are you on about?
Where did I say it was your party?
I said they were your claims, which I happen to agree with,ffs.
I wasn’t the one disagreeing with you, yet you still manage to claim I was
My claims of a new party? You wouldn't see the truth even if it smacked you in the face.
So us the Guardian now lying?
The party has been registered. It has nothing to do with me. So would you like to explain how it is my party?
Of course not. Just another throw away comment by yourself that you will now ignore.
Would you vote remain if you had to vote for someone you didn't like or would you vote leave because you liked the person standing for leave?
I have said countless times before and I say the same now. We won't have left the EU by the end of March. There is a good chance we won't leave at all as most MP's want us to remain in the EU.
The general consensus is a customs union. Let the people tell them they are right, or wrong and we then can move forward. Nothing is going to get through parliament until they are given a mandate for or against a customs union. That’s the singular that has brought brexit to a deadlock. The alternative is parliament doesn’t pass brexit. Either no brexit or hard brexit, in which case the minority has won. How’s that democracy?
Why are they different?We are talking about voting for a Pm, they are completely different.
But isn't it amazing that those questioning the lead for the Tories are the same ones who champion the polls from YouGov when it says more want to remain in the EU than leave.
YouGov is either right or wrong. Which one is it?
Would you like to say what I have been vague about?It's easy to be right about something when you're quite vague. Article 50 would probably have to extend even had May's deal passed in Parliament because further legislation has to be passed through Parliament and there are so many days to do this before 29th March.
Decent summary:
Brexit: Are we running out of parliamentary time?
If Corbyn were electable he would be 10 to 20 points ahead in the polls at this stage in the election cycle. I suspect Yvette will be challenging sometime soon, she seems to be positioning herself as the safe and responsible choice.
Having said that Brexit is making any predictions practically impossible to make. Strange times indeed.
As for Boris he is never getting anywhere close to power. My opinion is that the next Tory leader will be someone younger like Raab or Mercer.
I said they could come second or even first. But they would come at least 3rd. No it wouldn't be simple.Predicting a GE requires a much finer grained model than for a national vote, so it’s not that simple.
Personally I don’t think the vote split for a referendum has changed much from 2016, but it’s apples and oranges to compare polling with a GE.
I agree about the struggles to get something through Parliament and am all for a compromise. However, most indications suggest a customs union would rule out trade agreements with non EU nations and would also require FOM, both of which are high up on a lot of people’s reasons for voting leave in the first place.
A compromise does need to be reached though
A customs union doesn’t require movement of people all though a common travel area between Ireland and Northern Ireland as part of the customs union would be wholly sensible. I would think that any customs union would be based on commodity codes. Depending on how many commodity codes are included as to how comprehensive the union would be. In short there’s room for trade deals outside of the union. If general consensus had have been followed from the start the last two + years would have been spent on defining the customs union instead of defining a brexit deal based on May’s red lines that will never get through parliament. The past two + years have been a lesson on how not to deliver democracy. Because she failed at the first hurdle, that’s why we can’t finish the race.
Sensible suggestion, however, from my understanding the EU wouldn’t allow a CU without FOM. Also any trade agreements would be extremely limited (if possible at all)
You are remain whatever. You would vote for whoever would promise you that we would remain.We are talking about voting for a Pm, they are completely different.
Safe seats?
Nearly 54% of England voted leave. How many of these feel let down by the system? How many are as desperate to leave the EU as some of you are to remain in it? The lies in here show how bad some are. Leavers are just the same.
But it is different now.
They got the result they wanted. Yet the MP's have gone against what was voted for. Why would they vote for an MP that has already gone against what was voted for?
So let's say 10% for smaller parties including Lib Dems. 90% left. About half Tory half Labour. But how many would still vote for Labour or the Tories after what has just happened?
We won't know unless or until it happens. Just look on here. All logic has gone out the window. It seems you have to be for or against. No middle ground seems to be allowed. If leave voters saw it the same way millions of votes would be lost by both Labour and the Tories.
A scary thought.
It already does. Turkey. There’s a precedent already set.
Euro elections always have a low vote - why is that do you think?
Point accepted but it doesn’t necessarily follow that a suitable CU would be available to us. As I say, my understanding that if we entered into a CU with the EU, there would be expectations on FOM, cash in the pot and it would be extremely difficult to reach trade agreements with non EU countries
I do agree though that some kind of CU appears to be required to get it through Parliament. I personally would not have this as our immediate priority now but a fall back if an acceptable trade agreement can’t be reached during a transition period.
It's not even necessary right now because right now, as things stand, both Labour and Conservatives will stand on manifestos supporting Brexit.
Ok so I’ve been thinking about it. I think snp will wipe out everyone in Scotland and win every seat.Agreed. But this referendum crap has brought out the worse in some. Just look at this thread. Some people refuse to look further than their nose. This so called Brexit party would get a lot of people voting for them for this reason. Not only that but millions have lost all their faith in our system. Yet some will still refuse to take it seriously.
We both agreed this could happen just like a few others did. Now the shitstorm is about to get worse. Now the May deal is looking like a slightly better deal although it still shouldn't be accepted.
This poll was commissioned by pro EU group. And it was before this new party was announcedOk so I’ve been thinking about it. I think snp will wipe out everyone in Scotland and win every seat.
Labour could make a play for a pact but won’t.
Probably Farage will start uksp - uk sovereignty party and take Tory and labour votes and some of the millions who’ve never voted before much like Corbyn did and probably will again
Lib Dems will be the only English party campaigning on Eu remain and will win some votes but not many more seats
So my guess would be
Con 35%
Lab 32%
Uksp - 20%
Lib dems - 10%
House will be something like
Con - 270
Lab - 235
Snp - 70ish
Lib Dem - 25ish
Uksp - 5 - 10
Pc duo Sinn Fein the rest
Con won’t get minority gov off the ground and lab / snp pact not enough so may be re run
Think proportional representation may return
We need to learn a new system of politics I reckon
Interesting times
Go take your head for a shake.
So it is OK for.one as he hasn't been convicted of anything but it isn't OK for another one bevause he hasn't been convicted of anything?
I wonder which side of Brexit you favour that it is OK because nothing has been proven......
Are you being serious?
We know most MP's want to remain. That means parties want to remain. Nobody would fall for this. And they wouldn't want to lose the remain vote.
My MP abstained from the vote. He is independent. I have voted for him since I moved here. It is easy to see how your local MP voted especially when they are very vocal on the matter. The Tories have the best chance of coming out well from this. A leader who wanted remain but tried following the vote of the country.
We may be in uncharted waters. You are right no one knows what would happen and it’s way too big a risk for the Tory partyThis poll was commissioned by pro EU group. And it was before this new party was announced
Voters less likely to back Labour with 'stop Brexit' policy, leaked poll suggests
I.wonder if this will change things.
Ok so I’ve been thinking about it. I think snp will wipe out everyone in Scotland and win every seat.
Labour could make a play for a pact but won’t.
Probably Farage will start uksp - uk sovereignty party and take Tory and labour votes and some of the millions who’ve never voted before much like Corbyn did and probably will again
Lib Dems will be the only English party campaigning on Eu remain and will win some votes but not many more seats
So my guess would be
Con 35%
Lab 32%
Uksp - 20%
Lib dems - 10%
House will be something like
Con - 270
Lab - 235
Snp - 70ish
Lib Dem - 25ish
Uksp - 5 - 10
Pc duo Sinn Fein the rest
Con won’t get minority gov off the ground and lab / snp pact not enough so may be re run
Think proportional representation may return
We need to learn a new system of politics I reckon
Interesting times
You are remain whatever. You would vote for whoever would promise you that we would remain.
There are millions of people that are leave whatever. How many would vote for someone who would promise that they would do their best to make sure we leave?
These votes would reduce Tory and Labour votes. Other than May all governments since 2001 have got just over 1/3 of the vote. None of them reached 37%. A scary thought. I would prefer BoJo than Farage and that is saying something.
Most Britons oppose second EU referendum, Sky Data poll reveals
Most Britons do not want a second EU referendum amid the Brexit crisis facing the country, a Sky Data poll has revealed.
Some 56% said they were opposed to another public vote on whether the UK should leave the European Union, compared to 44% who support the proposal.
Euro elections always have a low vote - why is that do you think?
Yes it is Woodcock. One of the rare good MP's who cares about the people of his constituency.Is that John Woodcock by any chance for Barrow and Furness? I've worked a door in Barrow -- I went to Lancaster University so have lived in the North West.
Brexiteer MPs from the Conservatives who weren't on the ministerial payroll (and therefore, have to vote with the Government because of 'collective responsibility') generally voted against the deal. One of the issues regarding Brexit is that, whilst we voted to 'Leave', but what does that actually entail? Hence, you have Brexiteers arguing May's deal 'isn't really Brexit' and you have Labour arguing it doesn't pass their tests and want closer economic ties to Europe. Voters widely reject May's deal, even amongst people who voted to Leave, and for that reason, there's no consensus regarding Brexit. This fundamental argument over what Brexit actually means is why I think we'll end up with a second referendum because if there's no parliamentary majority, nothing can be put into the law. There's a reason constitutional experts such as Vernon Bogdanor reckons a referendum is the only way to break the deadlock.
Right now, Labour is taking a bit of stick because of their policy on Brexit but it's difficult for an opposition to have a specific policy on something like Brexit because it isn't involved in negotiations. It's Brexit policy, whilst being totally flawed in 2017, was actually the perfect strategy at the time. Unless there's an election, Labour's policy on Brexit will be quite vague. That said, it has set out its 6 tests, their desire to remain in the Customs Union (the Tories will almost certainly not go for this) and that's pretty clear at this point.
I was gonna check but couldn’t be arsed. They’ll wipeout every other party in ScotlandIs that a joke? SNP to get '70ish seats' when there are only 59 seats in Scotland...
The Lib Dems won't get 25 seats either and UKIP/Brexit Party won't get 5-10 seats. We don't have proportional representation!
I said they could come second or even first. But they would come at least 3rd. No it wouldn't be simple.
Unless you believe YouGov less than 50% would vote Tory, Labour and leave. More want leave than would vote Tory or Labour.
Try and put that into numbers. It is impossible.
Based on just over 1000 people?
Yes it is Woodcock. One of the rare good MP's who cares about the people of his constituency.
Labour could have a policy that is known at least. This isn't hard to do. We are left guessing what the leader wants although we think we know. But he says he wants the opposite if what we think as he has always wanted out of the EU.
1, Your.posts are all about remaining in the EU whatever and having a go at anyone who doesn't do the same.e.Back in reality I’ve actually said multiple times that I think the country should stay in the EEA as a compromise between the two sides, so no, I’m not “remain whatever”.
I also don’t recall voting for the Lib Dems either.
Why let facts get in the way of you contrusting a narrative based on your ‘facts’
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?