The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (9 Viewers)

SkyblueBazza · Feb 6, 2017

Did anyone else see this? It was a documentary on TV too...I walked from Liverpool to London. Brexit was no surprise | Mike Carter

The bit about Walsall where he went to college is the most enlightening to me as that is around the time I left there. I can see exactly what he means...& it appears echoed in most towns & cities I have visited (many btw) particularly in the midlands, Yorkshire & Lancashire - the major shire towns/cities have benefited from some investment the rest it has been piecemeal

...onwards & upwards PUSB

Grendel · Feb 6, 2017

Sick Boy said:
A lot of the bollocks spouted by Farage, Gove & Johnson has been shown to have been exactly that.

It was a 50 50 split though wasn't it? Johnson arguing that the EU was like the third Reich - Cameron saying we'd have Third World War.

The 350 billion in the NHS or the complete economic melt down and overnight job losses.

The Remain campaign ultimately was a campaign which wasn't positive. It's tactic was to intimidate the masses.

Frankly one always knows you are on the right side of the argument when you peer over the fence and see those two ambassadors of integrity and morality - Anthony Lynton Blair and Nicholas Clegg on the other.

martcov · Feb 6, 2017

Grendel said:
It was a 50 50 split though wasn't it? Johnson arguing that the EU was like the third Reich - Cameron saying we'd have Third World War.

The 350 billion in the NHS or the complete economic melt down and overnight job losses.

The Remain campaign ultimately was a campaign which wasn't positive. It's tactic was to intimidate the masses.

Frankly one always knows you are on the right side of the argument when you peer over the fence and see those two ambassadors of integrity and morality - Anthony Lynton Blair and Nicholas Clegg on the other.

I'm peering over from the other side and see Farage, Gove, BoJo and the fawning support for Trump and Bannon from Farage in particular.

That really is a reason to puke up.

( not saying that Blair isn't)

dutchman · Feb 6, 2017

SkyblueBazza said:
If you ask me...should the political & chattering classes be convinced that poor intellect &/or education is the reason for the Brexit vote then: -
1. That dissmissive patronising attitude is part of the reason the majority voted in such a manner
2. They are even more out of touch with 'us on the ground' than even 'us on the ground' imagined
3. They need to look at how they put forward their case for remaining in the EU...including their own lies - not just blaming the Brexit camp's 'lies'
4. Only have themselves to blame. THEY are, & have long since, been responsible for the quality, standard & funding of the education most of us have access to
5. Need to accept the vote & seek opportunities to move forward rather than looking for evidence to vindicate their believe that (the Royal) 'we' voted wrongly...we voted, & whether they or we like it or not, both now or at any point in the future - we're leaving!B

Those are also the reasons why Labour lost the last two general elections.

SkyblueBazza · Feb 6, 2017

dutchman said:
Those are also the reasons why Labour lost the last two general elections.

Absolutely correct imo

...onwards & upwards PUSB

SkyblueBazza · Feb 6, 2017

martcov said:
I'm peering over from the other side and see Farage, Gove, BoJo and the fawning support for Trump and Bannon from Farage in particular.

That really is a reason to puke up.

( not saying that Blair isn't)

Yes...and Grendel is correct too. One side suggested probably false hope (positive), the other offered punitive measures (negative)

...onwards & upwards PUSB

Sick Boy · Feb 6, 2017

martcov said:
I'm peering over from the other side and see Farage, Gove, BoJo and the fawning support for Trump and Bannon from Farage in particular.

That really is a reason to puke up.

( not saying that Blair isn't)

Don't forget Le Pen & Salvini!

Sick Boy · Feb 6, 2017

Grendel said:
It was a 50 50 split though wasn't it? Johnson arguing that the EU was like the third Reich - Cameron saying we'd have Third World War.

The 350 billion in the NHS or the complete economic melt down and overnight job losses.

The Remain campaign ultimately was a campaign which wasn't positive. It's tactic was to intimidate the masses.

Quite frankly I grew sick of the whole thing pretty quickly and believe that is showed to the world the mess that is British politics and society. The fact that as we headed to the end, a MP was murdered by a far-right scumbag says it all.

The Remain campaign was negative, weak and complacent. It should have focused on the benefits of EU membership and working towards reform with Britain at the centre, rather than predicting doom and meltdown. It also didn't help having the Odious 'call me Dave' and Osbourne at the centre of it.

The Leave campaign's use of 'take back control' was subconsciously very powerful I think, especially when used with lies about the NHS and Turkey.

However I do believe that the government should have looked at the EU laws that were available to them regarding immigration and tightening it up a little. A lot of other countries put restrictions on the number of workers coming from eastern Europe, Britain chose not to this to.

Poland's economy is very strong now and a lot more people are staying there or going to Germany, which would have been their first choice initially were it not for the restrictions imposed by Germany.

The worst part is that politicans on both sides of the debate and are so out of touch and have vested interests and few have a genuine belief that their duty is to serve the public and improve the quality of life. The belief that the likes of Farage are 'men of the people' is utter bollocks. Him and cronies are very much part of the elite.

I feel completely disillusioned with politics and would have no idea who I would even vote for at the moment.

Captain Dart · Feb 6, 2017

Terry Gibson's perm said:
A total waste of the licence fee heads should roll at the BBC for this.

How about correlating Labour voters with educational achievements.

Kingokings204 · Feb 6, 2017

Brexit is happening though and with trump winning in USA we have a real chance and some good cards to play. I don't agree btw today that trump has been banned from speaking in the House of Commons. I want a country of free speech and tolerance not ban him because three men said so but have no problem with a Chinese dictator doing the same. Beggars belief just like no one mentions the Iraq ban from Obama for 6 months. The decision today cheered on by Tim Faron and looney corbynists. The same Tim Faron who apparently respects the referendum result but wants another referendum to get the right result. It use to be clegg I couldn't stand but farron take it to a new level of hate for me. A dangerous lunatic.

Sick Boy · Feb 6, 2017

Defending the likes of Bannon while describing Farron as a 'dangerous lunatic' is ridiculous.

Captain Dart · Feb 6, 2017

Sick Boy said:
Don't forget Le Pen & Salvini!

You must realise she must not be named like that, Elle est suelement la Marine, n'est-ce pas.

dancers lance · Feb 6, 2017

Whilst we have, over emotional little cry babies, prancing about protesting anything they can (for the facebook likes) crying that anything they disagree with is "hate speech" "offensive" etc.....and protesting and banning free speech and free thinkers from talking in our Universities (like they protested Ayaan Hirsi Ali and got her banned from talking) whilst sobbing and wanting to be "Wolfkin" in safe spaces, I think that normal people will vote for any alternative. I would vote for the fucking "Kraken" before I would vote anyone with the same values as these whinny little twats.

martcov · Feb 6, 2017

Kingokings204 said:
Brexit is happening though and with trump winning in USA we have a real chance and some good cards to play. I don't agree btw today that trump has been banned from speaking in the House of Commons. I want a country of free speech and tolerance not ban him because three men said so but have no problem with a Chinese dictator doing the same. Beggars belief just like no one mentions the Iraq ban from Obama for 6 months. The decision today cheered on by Tim Faron and looney corbynists. The same Tim Faron who apparently respects the referendum result but wants another referendum to get the right result. It use to be clegg I couldn't stand but farron take it to a new level of hate for me. A dangerous lunatic.

There wasn't an Iraq ban as such by Obama. It was made harder to get to the US or get a visa from Iraq. The numbers of Iraqis fell, but it was not a ban and it didn't involve 7 countries from where no terrorists acts on US soil came from.

An absurd ban. Have controls by all means ( they have very strict controls on Syrians anyway ), but if you want a ban, ban countries where the terrorists in the US came from e.g. Saudi.

dancers lance · Feb 7, 2017

martcov said:
There wasn't an Iraq ban as such by Obama. It was made harder to get to the US or get a visa from Iraq. The numbers of Iraqis fell, but it was not a ban and it didn't involve 7 countries from where no terrorists acts on US soil came from.

An absurd ban. Have controls by all means ( they have very strict controls on Syrians anyway ), but if you want a ban, ban countries where the terrorists in the US came from e.g. Saudi.

Mohamed Osman Mohamud was from Somalia, Mohammed Reza Taheri-azar was from Iran (later got dual nationality) Abdulhakim Mujahid Muhammad was trained in the Yemen, Mohamed Barry was from Somalia, Abdul Razak Ali Artan was from Somalia, all of which perpetrated terrorist acts on American soil.

Astute · Feb 7, 2017

Deleted member 5849 said:
I guess our main problem is that our systems ain't cut out to deal with higher wages.

If we end up with higher wages, then this'll need people to pay higher prices and/or more taxes to fund them of course...

The rich have become even richer and a lot of the poor have become destitute. Older people who have fallen on hard times do not qualify for housing of any kind once they don't have children living with them.

If the money was more evenly distributed prices wouldn't need to go up. It would give the economy a big boost. Millions more would have money to spend creating more jobs. But instead it goes to those that make purchases that cost what the normal man on the street could retire on. And those purchases are made from those who are similarly rich. All this does is keep the same money made from the poorer in the hands of the rich. And the rich say that they can't afford to pay their workers an extra quid an hour. It might cost them an extra £200,000. That isn't even enough to put a tank of fuel in their yacht.

So the cycle continues.

Astute · Feb 7, 2017

Sick Boy said:
It is going to be great when the Tories are personally ensuring that the poorest and most vulnerable in society are better off. I wonder who will be next in line to blame when it doesn't work out that way?

Edit: We are still glad to be moving by the way....even more now that my girlfriend has been informed that her NHS pension will not be transferrable to Italy without paying around 50% of it as tax....how is this sort of thing going to encourage others to come here and work post-Brexit? At the least the NHS will benefit from the extra £350M a week though.

Most of us saw through the bullshit that we were fed. Just like we saw through what people like yourself were saying. Doomsday didn't happen. There was a correction in the market. But there always is when something unexpected happens.

Farage? I don't know anyone who voted because of what he said. Yet we are supposed to believe that the opposite is the truth.

So who has told your wife that crap? Nobody knows what is going to happen. Nothing is decided. Nothing is signed. Nothing has changed yet. It will only be as good or bad as the rest of the EU wants...mainly Germany.

I am planning to retire in 11 years 2 months 1 week. That is when my two youngest kids are 18 and 19. I am planning to tour Europe for the rest of my days or as long as one of us can drive, and come back to watch our football club play. Are you telling me that I am going to be taxed at 50% because I don't work for a British company?

martcov · Feb 7, 2017

dancers lance said:
Mohamed Osman Mohamud was from Somalia, Mohammed Reza Taheri-azar was from Iran (later got dual nationality) Abdulhakim Mujahid Muhammad was trained in the Yemen, Mohamed Barry was from Somalia, Abdul Razak Ali Artan was from Somalia, all of which perpetrated terrorist acts on American soil.

How many deaths on US soil?

Was there a complete Iraqi ban under Obama?

How many gun incidents and killings took place in the time span you are mentioning perpetrated by US citizens?

What measures is Trump taking to reduce gun deaths caused by US Americans?

martcov · Feb 7, 2017

dancers lance said:
Mohamed Osman Mohamud was from Somalia, Mohammed Reza Taheri-azar was from Iran (later got dual nationality) Abdulhakim Mujahid Muhammad was trained in the Yemen, Mohamed Barry was from Somalia, Abdul Razak Ali Artan was from Somalia, all of which perpetrated terrorist acts on American soil.

I will check your "facts" later, but for now here is the

first fact check:

Mohamed Barry from Guinea attacked people at the Nazareth Restaurant

martcov · Feb 7, 2017

Taheri-Azar:

"While no one was killed in the attack..."

No deaths ( but still terrorism )

martcov · Feb 7, 2017

Abdulhakim Mujahid Muhammad

Previously known as Carlos Bledsoe, Mr. Muhammad told investigators that he had converted to Islam as a teenager, Chief Thomas said.

martcov · Feb 7, 2017

Abdul Razak Ali Artan

Terrorist attack. Self motivated. Not ISIS. No deaths.

martcov · Feb 7, 2017

dancers lance said:
Mohamed Osman Mohamud was from Somalia, Mohammed Reza Taheri-azar was from Iran (later got dual nationality) Abdulhakim Mujahid Muhammad was trained in the Yemen, Mohamed Barry was from Somalia, Abdul Razak Ali Artan was from Somalia, all of which perpetrated terrorist acts on American soil.

After checking your facts. One was from Guinea, one had a European sounding name before he converted, there were no deaths on US soil and the attacks were self motivated and uncoordinated. They were not ISIS.

To ban people from 7 countries ( 2 of your named terrorists don't even come from these countries) based on a tiny percentage of self motivated freaks who didn't even succeed in killing anyone is indeed absurd.

To then relax gun laws to enable people with mental health problems to purchase guns more easily, is pure lunacy and shows that the ban is racist and religion based - nothing whatsoever to do with making America safe again.

Sick Boy · Feb 7, 2017

Astute said:
So who has told your wife that crap? Nobody knows what is going to happen. Nothing is decided. Nothing is signed. Nothing has changed yet. It will only be as good or bad as the rest of the EU wants...mainly Germany.

She has already had a letter about it through the post. I guess that doesn't fit in with your narrative though.
Happy to post the letter up when she is vac from Italy this weekend.

Sick Boy · Feb 7, 2017

Astute said:
I am planning to retire in 11 years 2 months 1 week. That is when my two youngest kids are 18 and 19. I am planning to tour Europe for the rest of my days or as long as one of us can drive, and come back to watch our football club play. Are you telling me that I am going to be taxed at 50% because I don't work for a British company?

Hahahaha good luck with that. It is likely that you'll only be able to enter for a number of days out of 365. If you come to Lago di Garda I would be happy to have a few beers to show you that life in the EU isn't so bad.
The 50% tax has nothing to do with working with a non UK company, BTW.

mrtrench · Feb 7, 2017

Although not premeditated (I think that Cameron started the referendum to win the 2015 election); giving the vote was a smart move in my opinion. We have avoided the Le Pen and AfD type parties that mainland Europe may inherit now. And whilst I accept that UKIP may win more votes in 2020, that will be due to the Labour party abandoning the working classes, not Europe.

Sick Boy · Feb 7, 2017

UKIP, AfD and The National Front are one of the same. I'm tired of debating the whole thing and from a EU perspective, the sooner Britain is out the better.

Astute · Feb 7, 2017

Sick Boy said:
Hahahaha good luck with that. It is likely that you'll only be able to enter for a number of days out of 365. If you come to Lago di Garda I would be happy to have a few beers to show you that life in the EU isn't so bad.
The 50% tax has nothing to do with working with a non UK company, BTW.

Will spend a lot of time in Italy. Love the place. Nobody knows what is going to happen.

So how can 50% be lost to tax? You will have to start a JR

olderskyblue · Feb 7, 2017

Sick Boy said:
Hahahaha good luck with that. It is likely that you'll only be able to enter for a number of days out of 365. If you come to Lago di Garda I would be happy to have a few beers to show you that life in the EU isn't so bad.
The 50% tax has nothing to do with working with a non UK company, BTW.

A beautiful part of Italy. I'm surprised you're blaming brexit on having to move there....

I was in Italy last week, and will be there again in a couple of Months, but, lets not pretend that everything is fine there. They have some problems of their own too....

jimmyhillsfanclub · Feb 7, 2017

Sick Boy said:
Quite frankly I grew sick of the whole thing pretty quickly and believe that is showed to the world the mess that is British politics and society. The fact that as we headed to the end, a MP was murdered by a far-right scumbag says it all.

The Remain campaign was negative, weak and complacent. It should have focused on the benefits of EU membership and working towards reform with Britain at the centre, rather than predicting doom and meltdown. It also didn't help having the Odious 'call me Dave' and Osbourne at the centre of it.

The Leave campaign's use of 'take back control' was subconsciously very powerful I think, especially when used with lies about the NHS and Turkey.

However I do believe that the government should have looked at the EU laws that were available to them regarding immigration and tightening it up a little. A lot of other countries put restrictions on the number of workers coming from eastern Europe, Britain chose not to this to.

Poland's economy is very strong now and a lot more people are staying there or going to Germany, which would have been their first choice initially were it not for the restrictions imposed by Germany.

The worst part is that politicans on both sides of the debate and are so out of touch and have vested interests and few have a genuine belief that their duty is to serve the public and improve the quality of life. The belief that the likes of Farage are 'men of the people' is utter bollocks. Him and cronies are very much part of the elite.

I feel completely disillusioned with politics and would have no idea who I would even vote for at the moment.

Good post SB.

As you well know, we share a lot of common ground & I agonised for months over which way to vote......

The thing that swayed it for me was the complete blank that cameron drew when attempting to renegotiate with the EU.....possibly down to a lack of conviction, talent or planning....but whilst I recognise the benefits the EU has brought over the years, I can only see trouble ahead as they persist to favour big business over big ideas, banks over citizens, punitive economic policy that bullies states such as Greece, riding roughshod over the democratic wishes of sovereign states in order to prop up an already failed currency......

I believe the EU waters will go from choppy, to a full blown storm within the next decade......

Clearly I didn't vote for any of what happened next......I maybe naively assumed that after the government fell, we may actually have a general election which may have given the nation a chance to reflect, plan & organise.......not just insert some careerist bitch into No. 10 & surround her with opportunists & lickspittles....

you're a good man & I wish you all the best in your new adventure........buona fortuna amico mio

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 · Feb 7, 2017

Lake Garda is amazing, haven't been for a few years but stayed in Riva in about 2010.

Did Lake Como last year on the way to Liechtenstein, and finally Basel for the Europa League Final. What a road trip that was. We stopped by near the Anakin Skywalker palace from Star Wars which overlooks the lake and it was stunning.

Sick Boy · Feb 7, 2017

olderskyblue said:
A beautiful part of Italy. I'm surprised you're blaming brexit on having to move there....

I was in Italy last week, and will be there again in a couple of Months, but, lets not pretend that everything is fine there. They have some problems of their own too....

hahaha! We moved back in the summer of 2013...I have been desperate to get back there

I was over there last week too, whereabouts were you?

I agree that things are far from perfect over there but the ridiculous thing is that we both pay £500 a month EACH in rent here so will be better off over there in the long-run.

Sick Boy · Feb 7, 2017

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
Lake Garda is amazing, haven't been for a few years but stayed in Riva in about 2010.

Did Lake Como last year on the way to Liechtenstein, and finally Basel for the Europa League Final. What a road trip that was. We stopped by near the Anakin Skywalker palace from Star Wars which overlooks the lake and it was stunning.

Riva del Garda? I lived there for a few months back in 2012, a very beautiful part of the world.

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 · Feb 7, 2017

Sick Boy said:
Riva del Garda? I lived there for a few months back in 2012, a very beautiful part of the world.

Indeed it is. Loved the place.

There, along with some of the northern Mallorca coastline are places I don't think I could ever get board of visiting.

olderskyblue · Feb 7, 2017

Sick Boy said:
hahaha! We moved back in the summer of 2013...I have been desperate to get back there

I was over there last week too, whereabouts were you?

I agree that things are far from perfect over there but the ridiculous thing is that we both pay £500 a month EACH in rent here so will be better off over there in the long-run.

I was near Udine, north east ish of Venice.

The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (9 Viewers)

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