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The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (52 Viewers)

  • Thread starter jimmyhillsfanclub
  • Start date Jun 8, 2016
Forums New posts

As of right now, how are thinking of voting? In or out

  • Remain

    Votes: 23 37.1%
  • Leave

    Votes: 35 56.5%
  • Undecided

    Votes: 3 4.8%
  • Not registered or not intention to vote

    Votes: 1 1.6%

  • Total voters
    62
  • Poll closed Jun 15, 2016.
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Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 15, 2019
  • #28,841
Nick said:
Have all of the people on the news today actually taken a day off work to lurk about in London?
Click to expand...
They may have done it’s quite momentous isn’t it?
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 15, 2019
  • #28,842
Grendel said:
Do you think other more respected speakers may have an idea of the role as well?

It’s intersting you admit you just nod your head and agree with people without researching it though. I admire your honesty
Click to expand...

I have admitted nothing of the sort. But as I have said, this government is known for trying it on.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 15, 2019
  • #28,843
Grendel said:
Do you think other more respected speakers may have an idea of the role as well?

It’s intersting you admit you just nod your head and agree with people without researching it though. I admire your honesty
Click to expand...

Anyway, how far has your research got you?
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 15, 2019
  • #28,844
martcov said:
Anyway, how far has your research got you?
Click to expand...

Well to be honest if you can’t get past the concept of accepting impartiality in the role then there is little point in carrying on is there as that forms the basis of accepted protocol. There are clues to the impartiality

I find David Starkeys article - if somewhat pretentious - certainly an insight into historical context and entertaining - the fact no speaker has attempted what bercow is attempting for over 500 years is telling. The fact he has a meeting with Grieve 2 days before his actions highly disturbing.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 15, 2019
  • #28,845
Grendel said:
the fact no speaker has attempted what bercow is attempting for over 500 years is telling.
Click to expand...

Is he going to behead his wife as divorce isn’t legal yet?
 
Last edited: Jan 15, 2019

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 15, 2019
  • #28,846
Sick Boy said:
So parliament shouldn’t be sovereign now?
Click to expand...
So parliament should be against what the public votes for when we are allowed a vote?

Forget that you are desperate for us to stay in the EU and answer honestly.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 15, 2019
  • #28,847
Sky Blue Pete said:
We live in a representative democracy. We vote for those people who make decisions on our behalf. That’s how it works
Click to expand...
And they are in place to do as we ask. They represent us. That is representative democracy.
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Jan 15, 2019
  • #28,848
Astute said:
So parliament should be against what the public votes for when we are allowed a vote?

Forget that you are desperate for us to stay in the EU and answer honestly.
Click to expand...

Hahaha ive already said the country should take the EEA option.

The UK is a representative parliamentary democracy, we are ruled by plebiscites
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 15, 2019
  • #28,849
martcov said:
He explained in parliament himself. It’s out there, you can google it or YouTube it. He explained his role. Sitting in a chair and saying nothing in order not to offend anyone is not his primary role. Defence of the House of Commons is not taking sides. It is his primary role. This government has already been held in contempt and didn’t want a meaningful vote and did want to introduce Henry VIII powers. You don’t like your Brexit government being held to the rules.
Click to expand...
That is absolute bullshit and you know it is.

Office and Role of Speaker

What is the role of the Speaker of the House of Commons?
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 15, 2019
  • #28,850
Sick Boy said:
Hahaha ive already said the country should take the EEA option.

The UK is a representative parliamentary democracy, we are ruled by plebiscites
Click to expand...
Of course you want the EEA option. It means we are in the EU still. We would have to pay in as we do now. We would have to follow the same rules and regulations just like we do now. Or are you going to tell me I am wrong on this fact again?

EEA is a worse choice than remaining in the EU.
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Jan 15, 2019
  • #28,851
Astute said:
Of course you want the EEA option. It means we are in the EU still.
Click to expand...

No it doesn’t.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 15, 2019
  • #28,852
Sick Boy said:
No it doesn’t.
Click to expand...
So what is the difference between EEA and full membership other than we have a slight say in things as a full member but no say as EEA?
 

Mucca Mad Boys

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 15, 2019
  • #28,853
Grendel said:
What if the second referendum was 50.1% leave and 49.9% remain

Would we get over it then?
Click to expand...

What’s the utility of making up hypothetical scenarios?

Let’s see how things pan out, but if Parliament cannot sort this mess out, a second referendum becomes necessary. Right now, MPs are strongly against a No Deal scenario and are set to reject to reject May’s Deal by a margin expected to be over 100 votes to about 228. The indicative votes is unlikely to find a majority for a Plan B of a Norway or Canadian style-deals. The option of a second referendum is probably the only option that would find a Commons majority.

Fun times ahead.
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Jan 15, 2019
  • #28,854
Astute said:
So what is the difference between EEA and full membership other than we have a slight say in things as a full member but no say as EEA?
Click to expand...

The UK would be able to make its own separate trade deals for starters
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 15, 2019
  • #28,855
Sick Boy said:
The UK would be able to make its own separate trade deals for starters
Click to expand...
Carry on.....

What is different between EEA and full membership?

Trade deals with third countries - UK in a changing Europe

So we would have to have solid borders if we made trade deals elsewhere. What would that mean with Ireland?
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 15, 2019
  • #28,856
Astute said:
That is absolute bullshit and you know it is.

Office and Role of Speaker

What is the role of the Speaker of the House of Commons?
Click to expand...

The speaker has full authority to make sure MPs follow the rules of the House.

Which is what he has just done. You don’t like that he follows the rules of the House.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 15, 2019
  • #28,857
Astute said:
Carry on.....

What is different between EEA and full membership?

Trade deals with third countries - UK in a changing Europe

So we would have to have solid borders if we made trade deals elsewhere. What would that mean with Ireland?
Click to expand...

Free movement of people and sporadic customs checks on lorries. But don’t worry, the ERG says that there’s an electronic solution.
 

Ian1779

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 15, 2019
  • #28,858
martcov said:
If we end up remaining, many leave voters will be unhappy. It will be decided by a second referendum which will be better regulated than the first as we now know the scams that were made to cheat. Criminal investigations are continuing.
Click to expand...

Any potential 2nd referendum would have more credibility if the supposed cheating was proven in court and people were charged and/or sentenced. You would also have to investigate any claims of wrongdoing on both sides of the referendum.

If claims can't be substantiated - it takes away from that argument being an effective one for another vote.
 
Reactions: Astute

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 15, 2019
  • #28,859
Astute said:
And they are in place to do as we ask. They represent us. That is representative democracy.
Click to expand...
I think it’s a little nuanced. We vote for the people that make the decisions rather than vote for the decisions. Am I being pedantic? I’m sorry I’m not trying to be. Why would anyone vote for something that’s bad just cause it was popular? Or was more popular possibly in 2016?
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Jan 15, 2019
  • #28,860
Are people really going out to stock up on food?

‘Hamster hoarders’ are stocking up on essentials in case of no deal Brexit

Terrified Brits build Brexit stockpiles of water, food and clothes

Mumsnet user 13luckyblackcats, said: “I am currently making sure I have the next sizes up in clothes for my two DC, and that me and DH are stocked up on essentials like socks, underwear, decent shoes.

“We’re also looking at seeds and fruit plants for next year as I grow a fair amount of food.
Click to expand...

Attention seeking bellends. "Look at my stash of food"

People need to have a word with themselves. It isn't 28 days later or The Walking Dead.
 
Reactions: Earlsdon_Skyblue1 and Astute

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 15, 2019
  • #28,861
Sky Blue Pete said:
I think it’s a little nuanced. We vote for the people that make the decisions rather than vote for the decisions. Am I being pedantic? I’m sorry I’m not trying to be. Why would anyone vote for something that’s bad just cause it was popular? Or was more popular possibly in 2016?
Click to expand...
Your view is that it is bad. Not everyone has the same view as yourself. And it is still about as popular as remaining.

The public WAS given the choice. Blame Cameron for that. The public voted leave. They didn't vote for MP's not to follow their wishes.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 15, 2019
  • #28,862
Nick said:
Are people really going out to stock up on food?

‘Hamster hoarders’ are stocking up on essentials in case of no deal Brexit

Terrified Brits build Brexit stockpiles of water, food and clothes



Attention seeking bellends. "Look at my stash of food"

People need to have a word with themselves. It isn't 28 days later or The Walking Dead.
Click to expand...
The EU themselves have said hardly anything will change as it would harm those we buy from. But this point is always ignored. It takes away too many things against leaving.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 15, 2019
  • #28,863
Ian1779 said:
Any potential 2nd referendum would have more credibility if the supposed cheating was proven in court and people were charged and/or sentenced. You would also have to investigate any claims of wrongdoing on both sides of the referendum.

If claims can't be substantiated - it takes away from that argument being an effective one for another vote.
Click to expand...

Yes, quite agree. I hope that the truth comes out. As for both sides, there must be an equivalence. If one side made accounting errors and the other took dark money from non UK accounts, then you cannot say, „they all cheated so that’s ok“.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 15, 2019
  • #28,864
Astute said:
The EU themselves have said hardly anything will change as it would harm those we buy from. But this point is always ignored. It takes away too many things against leaving.
Click to expand...

Have you a link to this? No deal means no transition period. That means things change over night.
 
Reactions: Sick Boy

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Jan 15, 2019
  • #28,865
Astute said:
The EU themselves have said hardly anything will change as it would harm those we buy from. But this point is always ignored. It takes away too many things against leaving.
Click to expand...

To be fair you said the same about a withdrawal agreement.
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Jan 15, 2019
  • #28,866
martcov said:
Have you a link to this? No deal means no transition period. That means things change over night.
Click to expand...

So do I need to go and do a big shop or not? Should I get my daughter school uniform for the next 3 years and some clean pants just in case?
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Jan 15, 2019
  • #28,867
martcov said:
Have you a link to this? No deal means no transition period. That means things change over night.
Click to expand...

It’s shocking how some, including Davis, seemed to think they’d be a transitional period in the event of no deal.
 
Reactions: martcov

Liquid Gold

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 15, 2019
  • #28,868
Nick said:
So do I need to go and do a big shop or not?
Click to expand...
Just make a note of who's stockpiled. Go round there if it all goes to shit.
 
Reactions: Sick Boy

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Jan 15, 2019
  • #28,869
Nick said:
So do I need to go and do a big shop or not? Should I get my daughter school uniform for the next 3 years and some clean pants just in case?
Click to expand...

It’s scaremongering and sensational by the media.
 
Reactions: westcountry_skyblue

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 15, 2019
  • #28,870
Sick Boy said:
To be fair you said the same about a withdrawal agreement.
Click to expand...
And it is the same whichever way it goes.

So back to your previous comment. You said EEA is different than remaining in the EU. Have you got a list of how it is different yet?
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Jan 15, 2019
  • #28,871
Astute said:
And it is the same whichever way it goes.

So back to your previous comment. You said EEA is different than remaining in the EU. Have you got a list of how it is different yet?
Click to expand...

There are various policies that would not need to be adopted, if you look online yourself. Why pretend it doesn’t come down to your mean gripe though, FoM
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 15, 2019
  • #28,872
Sick Boy said:
It’s shocking how some, including Davis, seemed to think they’d be a transitional period in the event of no deal.
Click to expand...
It is shocking how you continually make out there won't be a transitional period when I have shown you a fair few times there will be

EU reveals no-deal Brexit plans
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 15, 2019
  • #28,873
Sick Boy said:
There are various policies that would not need to be adopted, if you look online yourself. Why pretend it doesn’t come down to your mean gripe though, FoM
Click to expand...
You said EEA is nothing like staying in the EU. Yet you are still to say what is totally different.

You said the good thing would be that we could make our own trade deals around the world. Yes..... but everything would need checking at our borders.

Yet you disagreed when I said EEA would be worse than staying in the EU.
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Jan 15, 2019
  • #28,874
Astute said:
It is shocking how you continually make out there won't be a transitional period when I have shown you a fair few times there will be

EU reveals no-deal Brexit plans
Click to expand...

What are you on about? It’s not the transitional period that gets discussed, they’re contingency plans for a no deal
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Jan 15, 2019
  • #28,875
Astute said:
You said EEA is nothing like staying in the EU. Yet you are still to say what is totally different.

You said the good thing would be that we could make our own trade deals around the world. Yes..... but everything would need checking at our borders.

Yet you disagreed when I said EEA would be worse than staying in the EU.
Click to expand...

1. Where did I say it’d be ‘totally different’. Yet again you’ve made it up - I have continually said that it would be a way to compromise between the two sides, hence it not being ‘totally different’.

2. What would need to be checked? We’d be in the Single Market, eliminating the need for a hard border on the island of Ireland.
 
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