A question. Is this study on the difference between the EPA level and the higher VW level? Or on the whole NOx emissions?
You are obsessed my man. A peer reviewed study found 60 premature deaths linked to the device in question, with another 130 at risk if it wasn't fixed by the end of 2016. European NOx limits were less stringent than the American ones which is how this all came to light in the first place. The car industry as a whole lobbied for leniency and got it. That isn't right, but tens of thousands of deaths is something of an exaggeration.
Impact of the Volkswagen emissions control defeat device on US public health - IOPscience
So the fact he admits he admits he’d march with an EDL member as long as he didn’t hand out literature is fine by you as long as supports the EU
So by his own logic if Tommy Robinson was a ccfc fan he’d be proud to be beside him. If Mr Robinson was pro Eu you alright would be proud of him but of course not agree with all he says
My word
Twisting what?
How thick do you think we all are? The thread is there to be read.
You lost me. The disagreement was about the leader of a non political march retweeting right wing crap.
Which pro leave make rational arguments in your opinion?
You say how intelligent you are yet post wrong information. Is it to try and make look wrong for some reason?
Volkswagen scandal: Europe warned four years ago that car makers were rigging emissions
Evidence found in 2011 of defeat mechanisms found in VW cars. Couldn't do anything? This shows either your lack of knowledge on the subject or that you are happy to back the EU in whatever they do. Which one is it?
Burning petrol is as bad as burning diesel? Ask Greenpeace. Ask the rest of the world. 70% of diesel engines were sold in the EU. The bigger the vehicle the better a diesel engine is for it.
60 deaths? Which city in the EU has had 60 deaths because of the scandal? Or are you trying to say 60 deaths for all the cars with the defeat mechanisms that the EU allowed Germany to continue to build until America found out? The number was put at 38,000 a YEAR, mainly in the EU because of dieselgate and China and India because of their lorries. Or would you like to show evidence of your quote of 60 deaths?
38,000 people a year die early because of diesel emissions testing failures
Then comes the piss take. The EU knew about it. They let it happen. Now they are fining countries for having polluting vehicles on their roads. The same cars they should have stopped from being built.
Dieselgate: EC begins legal action against UK and other EU nations
Me happy to let polluting go by? It isn't me making excuses for the EU and German car makers. I have stated other ways our world is getting badly polluted on here. Yet the same culprits had a go at me for stating the facts then as well. For instance the catastrophic pollution caused by making batteries for electric cars or wind generating turbines.
Nickel mining: the hidden environmental cost of electric cars
And on top of this a lot more energy goes into building lightweight vehicles. It takes many years to get any benefit if there is any at all. Yet you say this is me against electric vehicles. Not at all. It is putting the point over to people that think diesel engines have only killed 60 people.
And I await this post to be pulled apart. Some will see it as an anti EU rant as they only notice the EU bit and will ignore the rest.
Oh dear
A question. Is this study on the difference between the EPA level and the higher VW level? Or on the whole NOx emissions?
Is it? So your link is frim 2015. As stated in other links the information gathered has changed what they think. There is plenty of new evidence out there. The link you provided was based on the NOx that was thought to be coming from cars. But since then we certainly know differently. Some German cars spew out 30 times or more than stated. Or are the Germans wrong on what is happening in their own country?You are obsessed my man. A peer reviewed study found 60 premature deaths linked to the device in question, with another 130 at risk if it wasn't fixed by the end of 2016. European NOx limits were less stringent than the American ones which is how this all came to light in the first place. The car industry as a whole lobbied for leniency and got it. That isn't right, but tens of thousands of deaths is something of an exaggeration.
Impact of the Volkswagen emissions control defeat device on US public health - IOPscience
The paper is comparing EPA levels with the VW levels.
Is it? So your link is frim 2015. As stated in other links the information gathered has changed what they think. There is plenty of new evidence out there. The link you provided was based on the NOx that was thought to be coming from cars. But since then we certainly know differently. Some German cars spew out 30 times or more than stated. Or are the Germans wrong on what is happening in their own country?
Diesel fumes lead to thousands more deaths than thought
[Investigation] Diesel cars contribute to about 10,000 deaths a year
NOx emissions linked to 6,000 premature deaths a year in Germany
Particles from diesel engines are causing deaths in Ireland
Bet it took ages to find one saying as low as you claim.
I don't think she is waiting for the vote until she thinks she will win it. More like she is waiting until it is too late to do anything but vote for it or take no deal. Maybe then it will be down to a no deal or another referendum. Who knows what she has planned.
Someone is being untruthful to us. Either May or the EU......Or both. EU says no better deal. May says it has improved. Take your pick.
So the total including EPA is much more? Which could be Astute‘s figure? Of his figure could be worldwide. The German environment group is intending monitoring emissions on the Autobahns. Which will be interesting.
When someone says something I pick them up on it. I don't make things up. If I did I have enough shadows on here trying to find fault with every single post I make. But all I get is false accusations. Maybe just to change the subject most of the time. Not my fault I have to reply to so many shadows that want to defend the EU all the time.You are the king of straw manning. The title is yours.
I just find it baffling how you attribute positions to people they have never expressed and claim they've said things they haven't come close to mentioning. Yes energy goes in to building cars powered in different ways. It still goes into building fossil fuel powered cars and the catalytic converters needed to make them spew out less crap. The EU's own advisors didn't try to bury the information but lobbyist money talks. That is how American politics has worked for some time and in a more subtle way is how our press got the Leveson inquiry shelved.
It isn't right and I don't like it.
When someone says something I pick them up on it. I don't make things up. If I did I have enough shadows on here trying to find fault with every single post I make. But all I get is false accusations. Maybe just to change the subject most of the time. Not my fault I have to reply to so many shadows that want to defend the EU all the time.
The problem is who do we have that is strong enough, holds enough power and is willing to do anything about it? We used to have MP's that had experience in life. Now they leave Uni and go straight into politics. They take the easy route. And they want the easy life. Keep it going as it is.It’s just a fucking mess now. I can’t believe she is able to manipulate parliament in such a way. Once this is over, there needs to be a serious overhaul of parliament and its procedures.
Point out where I have been wrong then.Yeah but you consistently make up what people have said to you previously. Just makes constructive debate harder.
Did you miss this link I put up?So the total including EPA is much more? Which could be Astute‘s figure? Of his figure could be worldwide. The German environment group is intending monitoring emissions on the Autobahns. Which will be interesting.
Point out where I have been wrong then.
So I forgot that I mentioned Germany in a post. It wasn't like a rant or anything. I mentioned all types of pollution from electric cars to the diesel scandal. It was a part of that. But you only read and took note of certain words.Besides you bizarrely forgetting to have posted about Germany within half an hour yesterday, there's this
'Yet you say this is me against electric vehicles. Not at all. It is putting the point over to people that think diesel engines have only killed 60 people.'
Never said you were against electric vehicles or claimed diesel engines to have killed just 60 people.
I believe the first studies were done in 2013 and they agreed it was a problem but couldn't decide how to solve it. I do find it funny that you are so concerned about the estimated 60 people to have died from extra NOx emissions but have little for climate change rendering regions of the planet uninhabitable in my lifetime. Burning petrol instead of diesel makes no odds in the grand scheme of our climate fuckery.
Fair enough my 1st class Masters in this subject means I don't know what I'm on about in your attempt to show Germany as the evil puppeteer...
So I forgot that I mentioned Germany in a post. It wasn't like a rant or anything. I mentioned all types of pollution from electric cars to the diesel scandal. It was a part of that. But you only read and took note of certain words.
But you are getting as bad as Tony and Mart on the subject. Mellow out and say what you see. Being biased on here won't change the situation. If you make a mistake just admit it. Don't dig a bigger hole. You are better than that.
After this I showed several links that showed the extra NOx being pumped into the air is causing thousands of deaths a year. Your reply was...
I know I can piss people off. But I hate liars and I totally dislike people saying false things about me. I am like a dog with a bone when it happens. Hold your hand up and just say you made a mistake and that is the end of it. Or you can carry on digging a hole and I will keep giving you a bigger spade.
The link he posted was from before the fiasco covered up by the EU on diesel engines in Germany was uncovered. Just like I said previously. So the research was on vastly lower numbers of emissions. The links I put up were after the new data was used.Actually none of your links show that he made a mistake according to his clarification. He claims the study was about the difference between deaths caused up to the EPA limit, and deaths caused on top of this by VW exceeding the limit in the USA and in a certain time period. Not total deaths in the USA or deaths in Germany. I am not saying the study is or isn’t correct, but you are barking up the wrong tree. As is often the case.
I see leaving as self harm, which by definition is not a rational act.
The link he posted was from before the fiasco covered up by the EU on diesel engines in Germany was uncovered. Just like I said previously. So the research was on vastly lower numbers of emissions. The links I put up were after the new data was used.
Or for once would you like to come out with some evidence to back what you say.
Or are you now calling Germany liars for saying so?
The link he posted was from before the fiasco covered up by the EU on diesel engines in Germany was uncovered. Just like I said previously. So the research was on vastly lower numbers of emissions. The links I put up were after the new data was used.
Or for once would you like to come out with some evidence to back what you say.
Or are you now calling Germany liars for saying so?
I see some “grown up” Brexit voters were having a “grown up” Brexit protest” on TV yesterday.
MPs write to Met chief over 'Nazi' abuse
The mentality of these people.
The AfD is under Fire here for spreading fake news, or rather downright lies. They are now being physically attacked on the streets and one of their offices was just bombed. Their leader in the state of Bremen has been beaten up. They smashed his head in with a wooden block and kicked his head whilst he was on the ground. Politics is getting rougher. I don’t agree with either, the moronic chanting of radical leavers, or masked, presumably leftists, beating democratically elected representatives up.
I just find that labelling an MP who wants a continuation of democracy a nazi is more than a little ironic. Would anyone really be surprised if the people shouting the Nazi slur were far right? That makes it all the more ironic.
Keep seeing this level of irony. As a personal anecdote I was out with a group of friends over Xmas and inevitably Brexit was discussed between beers and playing pool. One of my brexit voting friends said he was sick and tired of being labelled a racist for voting Brexit, a remain voting friend replied using the Billy Brag line “that not all leavers are racist but all racist are leavers and it’s probably not a good idea to be on the same side as racists” pointing out that the problem is one of association rather than a direct statement of himself. Well he liked that even less and his mood changed. Anyway the conversation continued onto immigration and a different leave voting mate said he doesn’t think that there should be a problem of not controlling your own borders, the conversation went on with comments about most of our immigration being non EU, EU migrants come here to work so the economy controls numbers, successive governments have failed to operate fully the controls under EU law so more could have been done to control EU migration without leaving ect ect. The guy who used the Billy Brag quote then said something along the lines of I hope that people who voted leave on immigration aren’t too disappointed when the only major change in immigration won’t be the numbers it will be the demographic so lost EU immigration will be replaced with non EU migration, most likely from the commonwealth and most likely people of “colour” at which point the mate still clearly seething over the Billy Brag comment jumped in and labelled him a racist for bringing people of “colour” into the conversation. At which point everyone else leave or remain united and pissed themselves laughing at him. To be fair he texted everyone the next day and apologised pointing out it was the beer talking and he was being a prat. But it’s an example of how people’s arguments seem to be name calling people who don’t agree with you something they either are themselves or the extreme of their own opinions. Ie being anti immigration doesn’t automatically make you a racist but people with this opinion (racist or not) seem very quick to label someone who isn’t anti immigration a racist jumping on them because they’ve done something like point out that people with black skin have black skin. The further right you go the more common this practice seems to be. Hence I wouldn’t be surprised if the “men” shouting Nazi outside Parliament yesterday were of far right background/beliefs. You see it more on platforms like Facebook and Twitter, hence I personally don’t bother with them.
Rant over.
https://app.handelsblatt.com/today/...ort-e-u-knew-of-vws-diesel-woes/23539382.htmlHow did the EU cover up the fiasco in Germany? Did the Council of 28 governments do that? Or the parliament of over 700 MEPs? What were their motives?
It’s just a fucking mess now. I can’t believe she is able to manipulate parliament in such a way. Once this is over, there needs to be a serious overhaul of parliament and its procedures.
Who makes the rules? Whose job is it to make sure the rules are kept to? How did the USA deal with the matter?„The documents described by Spiegel Online showed that the European Commission's intention to investigate more closely were frustrated by European carmakers' opposition, ministry spokesman Stephan Gabriel Haufe wrote, adding that the German government had supported the intention“
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