Two of their directors are involved with Albany Shipping, a company with a net worth of £8,00. seaborne net worth £66,00. contract £14,000,000. One director is 81 years old, another is classified as retired according to the file on Albany.
there is no evidence of any MP on the take, you're correct, though A, CD didn't say there was as he explained to you and B, there is evidence linking it to a tory donor.
So putting that to one side, don't you think the whole thing is still very suspicious?
I take it you are on about me and saying against MP's supposedly on the take?
So which MP is on the take?
No evidence so far. But Mart will agree with you as usual.
Yes it looks like a shite way of putting it forward. But no money has gone to them so far it has been said.
Real reason for Brexit? Have you not been following it at all?
The real reason for Brexit was for the Tories to get their votes back from UKIP. And it worked. The problem is that they didn't think the plebs would vote leave. They thought the vote was a foregone conclusion. Just shows how out of touch with the population that the Tories are.
It doesn't look good.there is no evidence of any MP on the take, you're correct, though A, CD didn't say there was as he explained to you and B, there is evidence linking it to a tory donor.
So putting that to one side, don't you think the whole thing is still very suspicious?
Why do you have to lie again?The only person who has ever suggested an MP is on the take is you.
No one else. Only you.
There is evidence which suggests a link to others connected to the party though.
More like it is a time for the Tories to.panic. They are getting everything they deserve. The problem is that it is us that will suffer as usual.Which you can tell from them awarding a contract to a British company, no matter how ill equipped it is, just to say 'we're backing British businesses'. Ignore they have backed foreign companies with 85% of the funding for it.
Will of the people rhetoric and the scaremongering that going against it will cause all sorts of riots, really winds me up.
17.4m (51.9% of those that turned out)
There were 46.5m registered to vote, a c70% turnout is very high...but 17.4m means that only 37% of those registered to vote voted it for brexit.
There are c66m people in the UK, not Everyone is eligible to vote however the 'will of the people' only 26% voted for Brexit.
Of the 4 nations that make up thr United Kingdom only England voted for Brexit.
Not saying we should go back on the vote, but can May et al overstating the will of the people.
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Wales, unbelievably, also voted to Leave. Agreed with the rest.
This rhetoric that a second referendum is somehow a 'betrayal' of British democracy is Orwellian doublespeak. A referendum is a public vote and by definition cannot be considered 'undemocratic'. If the public is committed to Brexit at any cost, they'll vote to Leave again, if they don't like the Brexit on offer, or have changed their minds, they'll vote Remain. It really is the best and fairest solution to this mess.
The only people who seem to argue against a second referendum are people who clearly are committed to Brexit at all costs. That's fair enough, but to hide behind the veil of 'the democratic will of the people' is disingenuous and dishonest.
Why do you have to lie again?
Last week you seemed incapable of reading what I was saying. You then eventually blamed it on the Guinness you drank the day previously. Now you say it was me who said the MP's are on the take when the truth is the total opposite.
What do you get from telling lies constantly?
I suppose we can all make mistakes as so much shite goes.on here all the time. But thanks for holding your hand up and admitting to your mistake. I get wound up easily when accused of something I haven't done and then it turns into a shitfest.I think Dave may have alluded to it, my apologies @Astute
Many who voted remain and want to remain are against another referendum. You even see some on here state so.Wales, unbelievably, also voted to Leave. Agreed with the rest.
This rhetoric that a second referendum is somehow a 'betrayal' of British democracy is Orwellian doublespeak. A referendum is a public vote and by definition cannot be considered 'undemocratic'. If the public is committed to Brexit at any cost, they'll vote to Leave again, if they don't like the Brexit on offer, or have changed their minds, they'll vote Remain. It really is the best and fairest solution to this mess.
The only people who seem to argue against a second referendum are people who clearly are committed to Brexit at all costs. That's fair enough, but to hide behind the veil of 'the democratic will of the people' is disingenuous and dishonest.
Many who voted remain and want to remain are against another referendum. You even see some on here state so.
You could look at it another way. This so called people's vote. Didn't people vote last time?
Many are of the thought that the vote should stand as it was what was voted for.
What would happen next if the vote was 52% against 48% again but this time for remain? Would it become best of 3? Would it be the result to keep as it is what you want? Should we keep voting until there is a large majority in favour of one side? If it was 52% v 48% in favour of leave again should we have yet another one as only about 2m more wanted leave over remain still?
And as you have said a referendum is democratic. Are you happy to go against a democratic vote?
To me another referendum would cause more problems than it would solve.
Many who voted remain and want to remain are against another referendum. You even see some on here state so.
You could look at it another way. This so called people's vote. Didn't people vote last time?
Many are of the thought that the vote should stand as it was what was voted for.
What would happen next if the vote was 52% against 48% again but this time for remain? Would it become best of 3? Would it be the result to keep as it is what you want? Should we keep voting until there is a large majority in favour of one side? If it was 52% v 48% in favour of leave again should we have yet another one as only about 2m more wanted leave over remain still?
To me another referendum would cause more problems than it would solve.
The clear democratic process for such an occurance is for a party to fight a general election on the mandate of a second referendum - not just offer one
Nope. MPs are elected to represent their constituents, they've been elected to serve a term of 5 years and since the mandate for Brexit is unclear hence opposition to May's bill from Eurosceptics and Europhiles in the Commons. All that is needed to justify the legal basis of a second referendum is a majority in Parliament for a new Referendum Bill. It takes months to organise an election and the issue of a second referendum and Brexit itself is a cross-party issue: Brexit, nor the issue of a second referendum transcends party politics.
How could a second Brexit referendum be triggered?
Here's an excerpt:
'What are the possible routes to a second referendum?
As discussed in a previous blogpost, primary legislation is required to provide the legal basis for a referendum. One possibility is clearly that the government could change its mind, perhaps as a result of a large shift in public opinion, and introduce a referendum bill. At present, this looks unlikely: Theresa May has firmly ruled out a second referendum. Theoretically, it would also be possible for a referendum to be mandated by a Private Member’s Bill, but this even less likely given the timescale and that few such bills ever succeed.
Most likely, if a majority in parliament favoured a second referendum, would be for parliament to force the government’s hand. There is a precedent for parliamentarians to impose a referendum as a condition for passing a government bill: the 1979 devolution referendums came about in this way. As outlined above, parliament will have multiple opportunities to vote on the withdrawal agreement. These could be used to require a referendum, either by defeating the government directly, or by extracting concessions. The potential flashpoints where a referendum might be called are outlined in the diagram below.'
Nope. The democratic process is achieved through parties elected on a manifesto commitment and delivering that commitment in their role as elected politicians.
Over 80% of the house were elected by standing on a pledge to honour the result.
That was not the only thing in their manifestos though, so it is stretching the point to say people voted for Brexit to be carried out at the last election based on party votes alone.
In the country where there was a viable alternative to Brexit, they voted overwhelmingly for a remain party.
The problem is that whatever happens and whatever we end up with there will be millions of people unhappy.This is why for me the EEA would be the most sensible compromise - I believe another referendum which reversed the decision could cause far greater problems. However, I also believe that a 'no deal' Brexit would also have the potential for problems, such as civil unrest.
However, it is hard to see anything other than May's deal or remaining, I can't see parliament allowing a no deal scenario to actually happen.
So who do you think would take a step like that who actually holds enough power to do so?Nope. MPs are elected to represent their constituents, they've been elected to serve a term of 5 years and since the mandate for Brexit is unclear hence opposition to May's bill from Eurosceptics and Europhiles in the Commons. All that is needed to justify the legal basis of a second referendum is a majority in Parliament for a new Referendum Bill. It takes months to organise an election and the issue of a second referendum and Brexit itself is a cross-party issue: Brexit, nor the issue of a second referendum transcends party politics.
How could a second Brexit referendum be triggered?
Here's an excerpt:
'What are the possible routes to a second referendum?
As discussed in a previous blogpost, primary legislation is required to provide the legal basis for a referendum. One possibility is clearly that the government could change its mind, perhaps as a result of a large shift in public opinion, and introduce a referendum bill. At present, this looks unlikely: Theresa May has firmly ruled out a second referendum. Theoretically, it would also be possible for a referendum to be mandated by a Private Member’s Bill, but this even less likely given the timescale and that few such bills ever succeed.
Most likely, if a majority in parliament favoured a second referendum, would be for parliament to force the government’s hand. There is a precedent for parliamentarians to impose a referendum as a condition for passing a government bill: the 1979 devolution referendums came about in this way. As outlined above, parliament will have multiple opportunities to vote on the withdrawal agreement. These could be used to require a referendum, either by defeating the government directly, or by extracting concessions. The potential flashpoints where a referendum might be called are outlined in the diagram below.'
The problem is that whatever happens and whatever we end up with there will be millions of people unhappy.
Any sort of deal that keeps us tied to the EU rules and regulations like open borders will be disliked. Just like leaving without a deal. So I can see unrest whatever happens.
Thanks Cameron. You excelled yourself here.
Miracle?Many people think that the remaining leave options of May’s and no deal are bad for the country. Leave was sold as being good for the country. It obviously isn’t.
So, ask the people if they still want to go ahead with it. If they do, then what would be the argument for another referendum?
I cannot see one. That would be it for me. I would still criticise leave though. Unless by some miracle it worked.
Brexiteers?True. There is no route out of this mess that doesn’t cause harm and whatever happens the Brexiters will still blame everyone else and vent their anger at something.
Brexiteers?
I'm glad that it isn't the same for those who want to remain however it happens
Miracle?
Let's forget how much you want and need us to stay in the EU for once. Just consider these points.
If we leave without a deal not much will change for at least a year after us leaving. The EU has stated so. And it isn't to help us. It is to help those remaining countries in the EU. They also stated that.
Several countries in the EU are financially in trouble. Doing anything to make trade with the UK difficult will make the problem much worse for many. This gives at least a year to come to a trade agreement. I can see that the trade that benefits the EU countries being made easy. Those that benefit us the most could be a different matter. But there would also be trade offs. Maybe the fisheries staying the same.
Leaving without a trade deal will happen whatever happens to the so called deal put together between May and the EU. That is mainly to do with Ireland. And nobody would like to be the ones saying there must be a solid border in Ireland.
The negotiations have hardly even started yet. We won't know what is going to happen until details of any agreements made next year onwards are known.
The only people who seem to argue against a second referendum are people who clearly are committed to Brexit at all costs. That's fair enough, but to hide behind the veil of 'the democratic will of the people' is disingenuous and dishonest.
Of course it isn’t the same. Remain is the status quo and remainers aren’t blaming the wrong people for their ills or when their fantasy plans don’t come to fruition.
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Nope. MPs are elected to represent their constituents, they've been elected to serve a term of 5 years and since the mandate for Brexit is unclear hence opposition to May's bill from Eurosceptics and Europhiles in the Commons. All that is needed to justify the legal basis of a second referendum is a majority in Parliament for a new Referendum Bill. It takes months to organise an election and the issue of a second referendum and Brexit itself is a cross-party issue: Brexit, nor the issue of a second referendum transcends party politics.
How could a second Brexit referendum be triggered?
Here's an excerpt:
'What are the possible routes to a second referendum?
As discussed in a previous blogpost, primary legislation is required to provide the legal basis for a referendum. One possibility is clearly that the government could change its mind, perhaps as a result of a large shift in public opinion, and introduce a referendum bill. At present, this looks unlikely: Theresa May has firmly ruled out a second referendum. Theoretically, it would also be possible for a referendum to be mandated by a Private Member’s Bill, but this even less likely given the timescale and that few such bills ever succeed.
Most likely, if a majority in parliament favoured a second referendum, would be for parliament to force the government’s hand. There is a precedent for parliamentarians to impose a referendum as a condition for passing a government bill: the 1979 devolution referendums came about in this way. As outlined above, parliament will have multiple opportunities to vote on the withdrawal agreement. These could be used to require a referendum, either by defeating the government directly, or by extracting concessions. The potential flashpoints where a referendum might be called are outlined in the diagram below.'
Much the same as brexit then.I'm still yet to hear any genuinely good arguments for it. It's just more screaming babies I'm afraid.
Much the same as brexit then.
Many who voted remain and want to remain are against another referendum. You even see some on here state so.
You could look at it another way. This so called people's vote. Didn't people vote last time?
Many are of the thought that the vote should stand as it was what was voted for.
What would happen next if the vote was 52% against 48% again but this time for remain? Would it become best of 3? Would it be the result to keep as it is what you want? Should we keep voting until there is a large majority in favour of one side? If it was 52% v 48% in favour of leave again should we have yet another one as only about 2m more wanted leave over remain still?
And as you have said a referendum is democratic. Are you happy to go against a democratic vote?
To me another referendum would cause more problems than it would solve.
Nope. The democratic process is achieved through parties elected on a manifesto commitment and delivering that commitment in their role as elected politicians.
Over 80% of the house were elected by standing on a pledge to honour the result.
So who do you think would take a step like that who actually holds enough power to do so?
It would be political suicide.
And to add to that there is a good chance they wouldn't even get the result they wanted.
Plenty of good arguments. See the post next to it.
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