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The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (7 Viewers)

  • Thread starter jimmyhillsfanclub
  • Start date Jun 8, 2016
Forums New posts

As of right now, how are thinking of voting? In or out

  • Remain

    Votes: 23 37.1%
  • Leave

    Votes: 35 56.5%
  • Undecided

    Votes: 3 4.8%
  • Not registered or not intention to vote

    Votes: 1 1.6%

  • Total voters
    62
  • Poll closed Jun 15, 2016.
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skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 13, 2018
  • #26,496
dutchman said:
Tell me something, if these 'experts' are so clever, why aren't they making a fortune for themselves instead of working for someone else for a fixed wage?
Click to expand...

The ones down the pub? It’s a bit like that bit from the Micky Flannigan stand up show where he’s down the pub talking to his mate about issues with his Mrs and his mate is giving him advice on how to sort her out and all the other divorcees were nodding in agreement.
 

Westendlad

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 13, 2018
  • #26,497
Heard George Galloway this morning on talksport........First time i've actually heard him talk sense. Basically the horrible little losers who wish for a 2nd referendum better be aware that if that were to happen you would have thousand upon thousands of people on the streets causing mayhem.
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Dec 13, 2018
  • #26,498
Westendlad said:
Heard George Galloway this morning on talksport........First time i've actually heard him talk sense. Basically the horrible little losers better be aware that if that were to happen you would have thousand upon thousands of people on the streets causing mayhem.
Click to expand...

It sounds to me that you’re becoming more and more left wing by the day.
 

Westendlad

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 13, 2018
  • #26,499
Sick Boy said:
It sounds to me that you’re becoming more and more left wing by the day.
Click to expand...
Sorry SB.....Missed a bit out lol.......Just edited !
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Dec 13, 2018
  • #26,500
Westendlad said:
Sorry SB.....Missed a bit out lol.......Just edited !
Click to expand...

To be fair I do agree that it would lead to a lot of anger and people becoming incredibly disillusioned with society, even more so than now. However I don’t think the government is able to deliver something that is going to work with what some have in mind.

I think the current situation is very worrying and I don’t know how the country can get through this, which is why I believe the EEA would be worth considering.
 

Westendlad

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 13, 2018
  • #26,501
Sick Boy said:
It sounds to me that you’re becoming more and more left wing by the day.
Click to expand...
I'd rather go down on diane abbot than even think that way.....
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Dec 13, 2018
  • #26,502
Westendlad said:
I'd rather go down on diane abbot than even think that way.....
Click to expand...

- Pro-Brexit like other hard lefties
- Admiration of Galloway
- Diane Abbot fantasies

You’ll be calling people comrades by the morning
 

Westendlad

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 13, 2018
  • #26,503
Sick Boy said:
To be fair I do agree that it would lead to a lot of anger and people becoming incredibly disillusioned with society, even more so than now. However I don’t think the government is able to deliver something that is going to work with what some have in mind.

I think the current situation is very worrying and I don’t know how the country can get through this, which is why I believe the EEA would be worth considering.
Click to expand...
Sick Boy said:
- Pro-Brexit like other hard lefties
- Admiration of Galloway
- Diane Abbot fantasies

You’ll be calling people comrades by the morning
Click to expand...
Stop it stop it i say.....I've been up 15 hrs hrs and i will not sign anything.....I wish to speak to my lawyer at once
 
Reactions: Sick Boy

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 13, 2018
  • #26,504
Westendlad said:
I'd rather go down on diane abbot than even think that way.....
Click to expand...

Just picture Mr Corbyn a camper van and Dim Dianne and it’s become a reality
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 13, 2018
  • #26,505
Westendlad said:
Heard George Galloway this morning on talksport........First time i've actually heard him talk sense. Basically the horrible little losers who wish for a 2nd referendum better be aware that if that were to happen you would have thousand upon thousands of people on the streets causing mayhem.
Click to expand...
Surely if there is a second referendum the best idea is for everyone to get out and vote. If and when leave gets a better result than the first time round it will be hard for the remainers to claim leave is not the will of the people.
 
Reactions: martcov
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 13, 2018
  • #26,506
Westendlad said:
Heard George Galloway this morning on talksport........First time i've actually heard him talk sense. Basically the horrible little losers who wish for a 2nd referendum better be aware that if that were to happen you would have thousand upon thousands of people on the streets causing mayhem.
Click to expand...

George Galloway on Brexit doesn’t talk sense. He doesn’t talk sense when it’s he is following Putin‘s line. As when he was trying to get Russia off the hook with the Salisbury poisonings. He can talk sense when he wants to, but he is mercenary.
 

Ian1779

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 13, 2018
  • #26,507
chiefdave said:
Surely if there is a second referendum the best idea is for everyone to get out and vote. If and when leave gets a better result than the first time round it will be hard for the remainers to claim leave is not the will of the people.
Click to expand...

I imagine if there is ever a people’s vote or second referendum there will be almighty battle in terms of the wording and the outcomes that can be selected.

I could see that taking a long while to get any kind of consensus on the detail.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 13, 2018
  • #26,508
Westendlad said:
Heard George Galloway this morning on talksport........First time i've actually heard him talk sense. Basically the horrible little losers who wish for a 2nd referendum better be aware that if that were to happen you would have thousand upon thousands of people on the streets causing mayhem.
Click to expand...

Why? If the majority still want to leave, then they will vote to. If they don’t, they won’t. If remain win and thousands refuse to accept the majority vote with violence then they are making fools of themselves. Remain didn’t resort to violence.
 
Reactions: Deleted member 5849

dutchman

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 13, 2018
  • #26,509
martcov said:
Remain didn’t resort to violence.
Click to expand...

That's because Britain is still in the EU and shows no sign of leaving.
 

dutchman

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 13, 2018
  • #26,510
martcov said:
Why? If the majority still want to leave, then they will vote to.
Click to expand...

Then your side will ignore the result again and demand a third referendum, and so on.

You'll keep demanding referendums until you get the result you want.
 
Reactions: Ashdown and Earlsdon_Skyblue1

Earlsdon_Skyblue1

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 13, 2018
  • #26,511
Mucca Mad Boys said:
Frankly, this conversation shows that if anyone is 'brainwashed,' it is you.

Most of my lecturers were actually on the centre-right, I had two lecturers who were on the left and neither peddled their ideologies in their lecturers or seminars. Most students are centrist and I know more people who shifted rightwards at uni than leftwards. Universities are places where you study independently and taught to engage with a variety of ideas and ideologies and come to your own conclusions.

Don't get confused by some of the more ridiculous stories from across the Atlantic in North America.

You know nothing about the university system, stop talking rubbish.

Ps. A self-professed Marxist lecturer of mine actually voted Leave. Friends of mine who are communists voted Leave too. I interacted with the idea of ‘Lexit’ (left wing exit) and ultimately disagreed with the premise of Brexit. Remain and Leave isn’t a battle between ‘left’ and ‘right’ because they’re cross-sectional — people on both sides of the political spectrum voted Remain and Leave.
Click to expand...

About 90% of my uni were left and the lecturers were the worst of them all.

My course leader took her 12 year old daughter on a slut walk and made her carry a sign which said 'I love my twat'.

I enjoyed my uni experience but the places are badly broken.
 

Earlsdon_Skyblue1

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 13, 2018
  • #26,512
martcov said:
Why? If the majority still want to leave, then they will vote to. If they don’t, they won’t. If remain win and thousands refuse to accept the majority vote with violence then they are making fools of themselves. Remain didn’t resort to violence.
Click to expand...

No, but they've resorted to two years of project fear on steroids. Resorted to calling everyone racists, resorted to watering down Brexit so much that everyone gets disillusioned and eventually gives in.
 

Mucca Mad Boys

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 13, 2018
  • #26,513
Westendlad said:
Heard George Galloway this morning on talksport........First time i've actually heard him talk sense. Basically the horrible little losers who wish for a 2nd referendum better be aware that if that were to happen you would have thousand upon thousands of people on the streets causing mayhem.
Click to expand...

George Galloway also holds the opinion that May's deal is so bad, it's better to remain a full member of the EU than to leave on those terms. He's calling for a general election, which, we know a change in PM via May resigning or that of a new government won't change the negotiation position of the EU.

Listen from 8 minutes onwards, although the whole segment is interesting as I respect Galloway as an orator, without agreeing with him.

 

Mucca Mad Boys

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 13, 2018
  • #26,514
Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
About 90% of my uni were left and the lecturers were the worst of them all.

My course leader took her 12 year old daughter on a slut walk and made her carry a sign which said 'I love my twat'.

I enjoyed my uni experience but the places are badly broken.
Click to expand...

What uni did you go to and what on earth did you study?
 

Earlsdon_Skyblue1

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 13, 2018
  • #26,515
There's not a single justified argument for a second referendum. Just because it gets shouted out a lot doesn't mean anything sensible.

If Brexit did ever get overturned then it would confirm what a lot of people had thought in the first place. You're simply not allowed to leave the EU. Considering the ones on here that wax lyrical about how everyone is becoming Nazis - I'd say the above is actually exactly the kind of behaviour they'd be proud of.

Maybe as leave won, there could be another vote with a list of options to choose from, but only the winners of the 2016 referendum can vote? That can then get implemented. I guess that's fair...
 
Reactions: dutchman

Earlsdon_Skyblue1

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 13, 2018
  • #26,516
Mucca Mad Boys said:
What uni did you go to and what on earth did you study?
Click to expand...

Criminology.

Anglia Ruskin.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 13, 2018
  • #26,517
dutchman said:
Then your side will ignore the result again and demand a third referendum, and so on.

You'll keep demanding referendums until you get the result you want.
Click to expand...

Really? If leave were to win now knowing what they are voting for, then the argument that nobody knew what they were voting for has gone. So it’s full speed into the brickwall.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 13, 2018
  • #26,518
Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
There's not a single justified argument for a second referendum. Just because it gets shouted out a lot doesn't mean anything sensible.

If Brexit did ever get overturned then it would confirm what a lot of people had thought in the first place. You're simply not allowed to leave the EU. Considering the ones on here that wax lyrical about how everyone is becoming Nazis - I'd say the above is actually exactly the kind of behaviour they'd be proud of.

Maybe as leave won, there could be another vote with a list of options to choose from, but only the winners of the 2016 referendum can vote? That can then get implemented. I guess that's fair...
Click to expand...

No it wouldn’t. It would confirm that the majority have seen the options and chosen the one they think is right... based on evidence. Hardly Nazis for having been given the chance to make an informed decision.
 

dutchman

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 13, 2018
  • #26,519
martcov said:
No it wouldn’t. It would confirm that the majority have seen the options and chosen the one they think is right... based on evidence.
Click to expand...

Provided they make the choice that you want otherwise you'll demand a rerun until you do get the result you want.
 

Mucca Mad Boys

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 13, 2018
  • #26,520
Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
There's not a single justified argument for a second referendum. Just because it gets shouted out a lot doesn't mean anything sensible.

If Brexit did ever get overturned then it would confirm what a lot of people had thought in the first place. You're simply not allowed to leave the EU. Considering the ones on here that wax lyrical about how everyone is becoming Nazis - I'd say the above is actually exactly the kind of behaviour they'd be proud of.

Maybe as leave won, there could be another vote with a list of options to choose from, but only the winners of the 2016 referendum can vote? That can then get implemented. I guess that's fair...
Click to expand...

Answer me this.

The Brexit deal is going to be rejected in parliament. This means Brexit is on halt because it cannot be passed and therefore cannot be finalised. What is your solution? No one has answered this question.

Look, Brexiteers such as Rees-Mogg and Galloway, on the left and right of the Brexit camp reject this deal for the same reason I (a centre-left Remainer) do. May’s deal isn’t a proper Brexit because we’re tied to EU rules and regulations indefinitely. Did the British people vote to remain in all but name? No. It’s Theresa May’s largely pro-Brexit backbenchers and the DUP that is stopping this deal. Not some pro-remain conspiracy.
 
Reactions: martcov, Sky Blue Pete and Grappa

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 13, 2018
  • #26,521
Someone from the audience on question time has suggested a people’s/citizens jury as an alternative to a second referendum.
 

Earlsdon_Skyblue1

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 13, 2018
  • #26,522
Mucca Mad Boys said:
Answer me this.

The Brexit deal is going to be rejected in parliament. This means Brexit is on halt because it cannot be passed and therefore cannot be finalised. What is your solution? No one has answered this question.

Look, Brexiteers such as Rees-Mogg and Galloway, on the left and right of the Brexit camp reject this deal for the same reason I (a centre-left Remainer) do. May’s deal isn’t a proper Brexit because we’re tied to EU rules and regulations indefinitely. Did the British people vote to remain in all but name? No. It’s Theresa May’s largely pro-Brexit backbenchers and the DUP that is stopping this deal. Not some pro-remain conspiracy.
Click to expand...

Yes, but that doesn't mean 'let's vote again and hopefully get remain anyway'.

Leave won the vote. The government are not honouring that with this deal. In fact, I would say 'the deal' is worse than our current arrangements with the EU.

If this does not pass through parliament, or she can not get a better deal, it should go straight to a no deal by default. Not 'let's have a chance at overturning the vote before it's been implemented'.

Most of the people that were scared of a no deal situation were remainers anyway, and that screeching has gone a long way in making this deal that's been put forward so shit 'to please everyone'.

We would have a much stronger hand if there was some unification on this rather than just stomping feet and demanding a second vote, or even worse, people like Vince Cable going to Brussels today to tell the EU not to give us any concessions.

The government have been a shambles in this, but the fact some people are still so blind when it comes to the EU and refuse to criticise them for an ounce is absolutely staggering.
 
Reactions: dutchman

Earlsdon_Skyblue1

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 13, 2018
  • #26,523
martcov said:
No it wouldn’t. It would confirm that the majority have seen the options and chosen the one they think is right... based on evidence. Hardly Nazis for having been given the chance to make an informed decision.
Click to expand...

No, the Nazis are the ones telling everyone else how to vote.

It is insane that the result can not be respected.
 
Reactions: dutchman

Mucca Mad Boys

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 14, 2018
  • #26,524
Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
Yes, but that doesn't mean 'let's vote again and hopefully get remain anyway'.

Leave won the vote. The government are not honouring that with this deal. In fact, I would say 'the deal' is worse than our current arrangements with the EU.

If this does not pass through parliament, or she can not get a better deal, it should go straight to a no deal by default. Not 'let's have a chance at overturning the vote before it's been implemented'.

Most of the people that were scared of a no deal situation were remainers anyway, and that screeching has gone a long way in making this deal that's been put forward so shit 'to please everyone'.

We would have a much stronger hand if there was some unification on this rather than just stomping feet and demanding a second vote, or even worse, people like Vince Cable going to Brussels today to tell the EU not to give us any concessions.

The government have been a shambles in this, but the fact some people are still so blind when it comes to the EU and refuse to criticise them for an ounce is absolutely staggering.
Click to expand...

Jacob Rees-Mogg was right when he said the PM has lost the confidence of Parliament. The government is in a position where it cannot pass the deal of what it was elected to do. The result here is the government seeking a renewed mandate and calling a general election. However, with the timeline of the scheduled exit, that wouldn’t solve the issue completely. So, the logical conclusion would be a second referendum to sort the issue.

Leave won by a slender margin in 2016, and there was elements of deception in their campaign and promises made that couldn’t be kept. If this was an elected government, they’d be held accountable here. Regardless, in 2018 the public knows what Brexit looks like so it can either reject or accept Brexit with greater confidence than in 2016. Public opinion changes, and if it chose to change its mind in another referendum, it has the right to do so. Just as the result in 2016 was legitimate, so would the result of a second one? They’re both plebiscites. If polls are accurate, which of course they can be wrong, Remain would actually win by a larger margin than Leave did in 2016. If the public was still committed to Brexit, then so be it, the Brexiteers would be strengthened which is good for delivering Brexit. On the other hand, if the public changes its mind and rejects Brexit, it can do. The only reason to deny a referendum is people who are politically motivated Brexiteers who don’t want to risk losing. This isn’t really about following the ‘people’s will’ because if it was, the public would vote Leave again. It’s plain and simple.

Good reasons for a second referendum:

1. The government is physically incapable to deliver Brexit.
2. The 2016 referendum didn’t define what Brexit would look like. Public has the right to accept or reject the terms of any agreement.
3. Polls indicate a vote now would flip the result, by a larger margin than that ‘people’s will’ of 2016.

You’re wrong when you say there are no ‘good reasons’ for a second referendum.
 

dutchman

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 14, 2018
  • #26,525
Mucca Mad Boys said:
1. The government is physically incapable to deliver Brexit.
Click to expand...

They're perfectly capable they just refuse to do it because they've been EU-stooges all along.
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 14, 2018
  • #26,526
dutchman said:
I wasn't suggesting tarriffs would 'only' be put on EU members. The fact is a 3% tariff will be put on EU imports which is greater than the 0% currently imposed and will raise revenue for the UK treasury. How they choose to spend it is another matter.

I notice you haven't responded to the point that fewer EU nationals would qualify for "free" NHS treatment in UK hospitals?
Click to expand...
Tariffs are irrelevant compared with non tariff barriers like licensing. The thick Brexit crowd has over simplified it again, WTO would be a distaster
 
Reactions: clint van damme, Grappa and martcov
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 14, 2018
  • #26,527
Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
No, the Nazis are the ones telling everyone else how to vote.

It is insane that the result can not be respected.
Click to expand...

Who is telling everyone how to vote? There were lies told by both sides- the US backed think tanks still are providing disinformation and refusing to declare the origins of a large part of their funding. The NCA is investigating the source of the largest contribution from Banks. The methods and contents of CA and others of using social media are being scrutinised for foreign influence and the legality of Data harvesting.

Plenty of reasons to question the result without pointing out that the use of a binary option did not allow people to say what sort of leave people wanted which is why May cannot find a majority to support her version. The majority did not, and could not have voted for her deal.

I suspect that amongst the right wing supporters of leave there could well be Nazis as leave does seem to have activated the far right.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 14, 2018
  • #26,528
dutchman said:
They're perfectly capable they just refuse to do it because they've been EU-stooges all along.
Click to expand...

We have not had a public vote on what sort of Brexit the government should pass, or rather aim for. There are several suggestions. So how do you know what sort of deal the government is capable of getting and whether the public would back it?
 

SIR ERNIE

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 14, 2018
  • #26,529
martcov said:
We have not had a public vote on what sort of Brexit the government should pass, or rather aim for. There are several suggestions. So how do you know what sort of deal the government is capable of getting and whether the public would back it?
Click to expand...

Don’t worry mart, you’ll get your second referendum and Remain will win.
You’ll celebrate stopping Brexit but you will only have delayed it.
 

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 14, 2018
  • #26,530
dutchman said:
Provided they make the choice that you want otherwise you'll demand a rerun until you do get the result you want.
Click to expand...
Do you ever change your mind? This is such a bizarre argument
 
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