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The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (3 Viewers)

  • Thread starter jimmyhillsfanclub
  • Start date Jun 8, 2016
Forums New posts

As of right now, how are thinking of voting? In or out

  • Remain

    Votes: 23 37.1%
  • Leave

    Votes: 35 56.5%
  • Undecided

    Votes: 3 4.8%
  • Not registered or not intention to vote

    Votes: 1 1.6%

  • Total voters
    62
  • Poll closed Jun 15, 2016.
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clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 23, 2018
  • #24,151
SkyblueBazza said:
Yes...happening before the referendum! Not as a result of Brexit.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

That's because that's how the tories promote us abroad.
The neo liberal agenda of Rees Mogg and his ilk will be ramped up post Brexit.

I'd love to see us have a high tech, high skilled manufacturing work force, will never happen under the tories, (and may never happen under any government).
 
Last edited: Nov 23, 2018
Reactions: martcov

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 23, 2018
  • #24,152
Grappa said:
If it's a binary choice between this fucking abortion of a deal and the potentially catastrophic no-deal, then logically, I reckon this deal has a chance. But then logic never seems to come into these things.
Click to expand...

even though I think in the shorter term no deal will fuck the country, (10 - 20 years), I can see us coming out the other side and getting back to somewhere near where we were, (things will never get better while we have idiots like davis and fox in and around the government).
With this deal I think things won't be as bad shorter term but will decline the longer we're tied into it.
I don't agree with rees mogg on much, in fact nothing up to now, but his description of the country as a vassal state I think will be correct if we leave the EU on these terms.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 23, 2018
  • #24,153
Sky Blue Pete said:
We could have limited them as members of the Eu
Click to expand...
Would you like to explain how that would work?
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 23, 2018
  • #24,154
skybluetony176 said:
You best tell the local papers then because they wrote this “Lincolnshire Partnership NHS Foundation Trust (LPFT) plans to move Rochford patients to hospitals in Lincoln and Grantham so the unit at Pilgrim can be used for “elderly, frail” waiting to be sent home.”
Click to expand...
And that is because they need the space for other things. They changed the way they deal with the elderly and it didn't work. It ended up costing a lot of money and didn't work.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 23, 2018
  • #24,155
skybluetony176 said:
Putting words into people’s mouths again. I never said that immigration hasn’t caused a population growth in Boston. I just corrected you when you claimed that migration is responsible for the mental health unit moving. It’s moving to make way for the elderly. There’s a few articles in the local press outlets that I found and they all said the same thing. Not one mentioned immigration.
Click to expand...
So the local population going up by 25% has nothing to do with what they have been doing at the hospital for years?

Look at above post.
 

dutchman

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 23, 2018
  • #24,156
martcov said:
Oh really? What about the forgotten 48%, who are now 54% ( according to polls )?
Click to expand...

Those are the same polls which tried to brainwash leave voters into believing there was no point in voting in the first place but failed. I was very nearly one of them and would have been but for the prospect of watching a results programme all night with the knowledge I had not taken part in the voting process.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 23, 2018
  • #24,157
Sick Boy said:
LOL Germany did it for Poland? I believe, and we recently did it when Romania joined.

The only person who puts words into people's mouths is you.
Click to expand...
I put words in your mouth? All I do is point out where you are wrong.

Limited Romanians? Are you having a laugh? It was the right to work that was limited. But what good did that do?

Redirect Notice
 
Last edited: Nov 23, 2018

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 23, 2018
  • #24,158
CCFCSteve said:
Read both sides of the arguments on it. Bizarrely, under the circumstances it’s probably reflective of the split nation that we are. She’s tried to please everyone and whilst I think she’s been a poor leader and handled negoations badly I can’t blame her for the mess we are in. It’s a combination of Cameron and the EUs initial arrogance, together with small minded, inflexible and intolerant approaches (from both sides). If politicians/governments consistently ignore large sections of voters and their concerns eventually there will be a backlash....it’s happening worldwide
Click to expand...
Best post for ages on this thread.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 23, 2018
  • #24,159
dutchman said:
Those are the same polls which tried to brainwash leave voters into believing there was no point in voting in the first place but failed. I was very nearly one of them and would have been but for the prospect of watching a results programme all night with the knowledge I had not taken part in the voting process.
Click to expand...

Why are you worried about a second referendum then? Should be a pushover for the happy Brexiteers... off to a beautiful no deal as opposed to remaining in the evil EU....
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 23, 2018
  • #24,160
Astute said:
Best post for ages on this thread.
Click to expand...

You seem to forget the backlash against Trump in the midterms. People are seeing what’s going on. Expect more of the same here as the populists get found out on Brexit.
 
Reactions: Sick Boy

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 23, 2018
  • #24,161
dutchman said:
Er, no. We've already had a referendum in this country on whether to leave so the only options left are 'accept the deal and leave' or 'reject the deal and leave'.
Click to expand...
Wow but that wouldn’t be the will of the people
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 23, 2018
  • #24,162
Astute said:
And that is because they need the space for other things. They changed the way they deal with the elderly and it didn't work. It ended up costing a lot of money and didn't work.
Click to expand...

So nothing to do with immigration then. It took a while but finally you’ve put your hands up.
 
Reactions: Sick Boy

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Nov 23, 2018
  • #24,163
Astute said:
I put words in your mouth? All I do is point out where you are wrong.

Limited Romanians? Are you having a laugh? It was the right to work that was limited. But what good did that do?

Redirect Notice
Click to expand...

Yeah if you say so, yesterday you bizarrely claimed I'd said something about Blair despite not even mentioning him.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 23, 2018
  • #24,164
Astute said:
So the local population going up by 25% has nothing to do with what they have been doing at the hospital for years?

Look at above post.
Click to expand...

And now you’re trying to put words in people’s mouths again.

Clearly the decision to move the mental health unit has nothing to do with immigration and everything to do with an ageing population.

The maternity unit has become viable again and saved by the growing population boosted by immigration as confirmed in the original article you linked. So a bonus to the area from immigration.

Not sure what other issues you’re specifically referring to that have happened for years but every story I read refer to recruitment shortages. Which is a problem common all around the country and a failure of government policy. Immigration is actually one of the answers to curing this issue so again not sure how blaming immigration is the answer.

Over to you. Let’s see if you can answer without trying to put more words in my mouth.
 

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 23, 2018
  • #24,165
Astute said:
Would you like to explain how that would work?
Click to expand...
Little bit of how it worked initially with Romania and Bulgaria

Romania and Bulgaria controls lifted
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 23, 2018
  • #24,166
skybluetony176 said:
So nothing to do with immigration then. It took a while but finally you’ve put your hands up.
Click to expand...
Put my hands up to what? You trying to twist the truth as usual?

You are trying to twist the truth on something I painfully know the truth about. I lost my step dad in Pilgrim hospital. They closed down the heart theatre and put in place a heart monitoring unit to make space. They are getting rid of the mental health unit to make space for the old people. Their space was taken away to make space.

So come in Einstein. The Boston population has gone up by about 25% in recent years. The surrounding area has also gone up. Yet people have suddenly got old and need caring for and it is nothing to do with the population explosion in the district.

You, Mart and SB don't care what you say. You don't care how far fetched what you say is. You come out with any old rubbish to make the situation seem better than it is. Well done.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 23, 2018
  • #24,167
Sick Boy said:
Yeah if you say so, yesterday you bizarrely claimed I'd said something about Blair despite not even mentioning him.
Click to expand...
I said I am not praising him before you say I am. Yes totally different to what you say.

If you need proof how about yesterday when I said May has a hard job. You tried to twist that to me praising her. You only stopped that rubbish after others agreed with me.

So your family are immigrants. Your partner is Italian. Does that give you the right to come out with the diatribe you do?
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 23, 2018
  • #24,168
Sky Blue Pete said:
Little bit of how it worked initially with Romania and Bulgaria

Romania and Bulgaria controls lifted
Click to expand...
Work without restrictions yes. It didn't stop much more. That was why there was a criminal explosion involving Romanians. They were not allowed to work legally.

JAILED: Romanian organised crime gang stole £3m jewellery from across the UK

Redirect Notice

Redirect Notice
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Nov 23, 2018
  • #24,169
Astute said:
So your family are immigrants. Your partner is Italian. Does that give you the right to come out with the diatribe you do?
Click to expand...

It doesn't exactly feel great to have people like you attempting to blame immigrants for the woes of the country, which you have consistently and unashamedly done. All 3 of them did or do vital roles in the public sector, BTW.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 23, 2018
  • #24,170
skybluetony176 said:
And now you’re trying to put words in people’s mouths again.

Clearly the decision to move the mental health unit has nothing to do with immigration and everything to do with an ageing population.

The maternity unit has become viable again and saved by the growing population boosted by immigration as confirmed in the original article you linked. So a bonus to the area from immigration.

Not sure what other issues you’re specifically referring to that have happened for years but every story I read refer to recruitment shortages. Which is a problem common all around the country and a failure of government policy. Immigration is actually one of the answers to curing this issue so again not sure how blaming immigration is the answer.

Over to you. Let’s see if you can answer without trying to put more words in my mouth.
Click to expand...
Already answered. 1+1 isn't 5.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 23, 2018
  • #24,171
Sick Boy said:
It doesn't exactly feel great to have people like you attempting to blame immigrants for the woes of the country, which you have consistently done. All 3 of them did or do vital roles in the public sector, BTW.
Click to expand...
Who has blamed immigrants? I have said it is the fault of both the Tories and Labour.

But I am not going to sit here and agree when someone says that mass immigration to the UK has had no effect or has made no difference. It has exasperated the problem.

Then you have Tony who tries to twist the truth all the time.
 

dutchman

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 23, 2018
  • #24,172
martcov said:
Why are you worried about a second referendum then? Should be a pushover for the happy Brexiteers... off to a beautiful no deal as opposed to remaining in the evil EU....
Click to expand...
Ah, the classic EU tactic of holding a vote over and over again until THEY get the vote which THEY want!
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Nov 23, 2018
  • #24,173
Astute said:
Work without restrictions yes. It didn't stop much more. That was why there was a criminal explosion involving Romanians. They were not allowed to work legally.

JAILED: Romanian organised crime gang stole £3m jewellery from across the UK

Redirect Notice

Redirect Notice
Click to expand...

LOL yes I'm sure organised crime gangs have loads of interest in working legally and no organised crime gangs have ever entered and committed crimes in a country that has tough immigration laws.

Most Romanians are decent people and aren't gangsters, btw
 
Reactions: martcov

dutchman

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 23, 2018
  • #24,174
martcov said:
Leavers were misled, or just concerned about immigration, which is only one part of EU membership and ignores non EU migrants.
Click to expand...

It's not just about about total numbers. Many of the so-called "EU migrants" come from countries with no historical connection with Britain, who don't speak English (at least as a second language) and whose culture is totally alien to anything in this country.
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Nov 23, 2018
  • #24,175
dutchman said:
It's not just about about total numbers. Many of the so-called "EU migrants" come from countries with no historical connection with Britain, who don't speak English (at least as a second language) and whose culture is totally alien to anything in this country.
Click to expand...

Yet the British immigrants going off to Spain and not even bothering to learn Spanish or integrate never even get a mention?
 

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 23, 2018
  • #24,176
Astute said:
Who has blamed immigrants? I have said it is the fault of both the Tories and Labour.

But I am not going to sit here and agree when someone says that mass immigration to the UK has had no effect or has made no difference. It has exasperated the problem.

Then you have Tony who tries to twist the truth all the time.
Click to expand...
I’ve read most of the posts on here and most recognise there have been benefits and costs to Eu migration. Very rare to see any recognition of emigration to Eu nations from us Brits. It’s a shame that facts are so hard to come by in this brave new world. They do say truth is the first victim don’t they?
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Nov 23, 2018
  • #24,177
Sky Blue Pete said:
I’ve read most of the posts on here and most recognise there have been benefits and costs to Eu migration. Very rare to see any recognition of emigration to Eu nations from us Brits. It’s a shame that facts are so hard to come by in this brave new world. They do say truth is the first victim don’t they?
Click to expand...

Astute's sister runs and owns a bar in France, I believe, so he knows all too well.
 
Reactions: martcov

dutchman

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 23, 2018
  • #24,178
Sick Boy said:
Yet the British immigrants going off to Spain and not even bothering to learn Spanish or integrate never even get a mention?
Click to expand...

The "EU migrants" I mentioned was a euphamism, I really meant those colonial migrants from outside the EU who use EU rules as a right of entry to the UK.

And yes those "Little-Britons" who build hideous villas which antagonise the Spanish locals annoy me just as much. I had a blazing row with a British friend over the subject.
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Nov 23, 2018
  • #24,179
dutchman said:
And yes those "Little-Britons" who build hideous villas which antagonise the Spanish locals annoy me just as much. I had a blazing row with a British friend over the subject.
Click to expand...

It makes me cringe when you see Brits getting visibility angry when their attempts at shouting at a local who doesn't speak English very well fail. There would be outrage if the tables were turned in this country.
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Nov 23, 2018
  • #24,180
dutchman said:
The "EU migrants" I mentioned was a euphamism, I really meant those colonial migrants from outside the EU who use EU rules as a right of entry to the UK.
Click to expand...

Like which nationalities? All non- EU passport holders have to fill out a landing card and don't go through the UK/EU passport lanes.
 
Reactions: martcov
G

Grappa

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 23, 2018
  • #24,181
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Nov 23, 2018
  • #24,182
Grappa said:
Click to expand...

Come on, it's a price worth paying so that we only hear English being spoken on trains.
 

dutchman

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 23, 2018
  • #24,183
Sick Boy said:
Like which nationalities? All non- EU passport holders have to fill out a landing card and don't go through the UK/EU passport lanes.
Click to expand...
So which part of the EU does Somalia belong to then?
 

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 23, 2018
  • #24,184
dutchman said:
So which part of the EU does Somalia belong to then?
Click to expand...
Somalians claim asylum don’t they?
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Nov 23, 2018
  • #24,185
dutchman said:
So which part of the EU does Somalia belong to then?
Click to expand...

Somalians don't have free access to the UK? I presume if they are here they've been granted permission to work, have claimed asylum or are here illegally.

I'm not sure how they have anything to do with the EU if they are in this country.
 
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