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The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (12 Viewers)

  • Thread starter jimmyhillsfanclub
  • Start date Jun 8, 2016
Forums New posts

As of right now, how are thinking of voting? In or out

  • Remain

    Votes: 23 37.1%
  • Leave

    Votes: 35 56.5%
  • Undecided

    Votes: 3 4.8%
  • Not registered or not intention to vote

    Votes: 1 1.6%

  • Total voters
    62
  • Poll closed Jun 15, 2016.
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skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 1, 2018
  • #22,786
Astute said:
Explain yourself.

So what part is wrong?

Why is it that I point out the bad with Brexit and other things in the EU but the Brexit part is ignored by certain people and the bad parts of the EU are ignored or argued against even though they are so obviously right?
Click to expand...

The article you linked wasn’t even about brexit. I doubt you were even aware of the author or his opinion on brexit until you found a headline that suited your argument and I pointed out what the authors opinions was on brexit today.
 
Reactions: martcov

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 1, 2018
  • #22,787
skybluetony176 said:
The article you linked wasn’t even about brexit. I doubt you were even aware of the author or his opinion on brexit until you found a headline that suited your argument and I pointed out what the authors opinions was on brexit today.
Click to expand...
So I quote things without reading them?

Take a day off. Of course I read what I link.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 1, 2018
  • #22,788
Astute said:
Yes they need to start at the bottom. But they have been trying for years to get rid of the mafia problem.

But short term how does the problem get resolved?
Click to expand...

No they haven’t. Successive governments have been complicit with the mafia for decades and have tread the same path. Any arrests and investigations have been for show not effect and on the whole the ringleaders are left unscathed.

The current government is about blaming the EU when it should be looking within first and then demanding EU assistance to deal with it.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 1, 2018
  • #22,789
Astute said:
So I quote things without reading them?

Take a day off. Of course I read what I link.
Click to expand...

Always. That’s been long established. You’re someone with a long history of disagreeing with posters by agreeing with them while not realising that you were. I’ve lost count of the amount of times that you’ve posted a link based on a headline that you’ve presumed backs you but when you actually read the article it either dismisses you or confirms what the other poster has told you in the first place. We’ll call it doing an astute if you like.
 
Reactions: martcov

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 1, 2018
  • #22,790
Astute said:
Have I?

I didn't vote leave. I have never voted UKIP like someone on here hey Tony.

You are only happy with someone who says EU good UK bad.
Click to expand...

Ha ha ha, yeah good one. Confirmation again that you’ve lost the argument.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 1, 2018
  • #22,791
Astute said:
So are you disagreeing with SB or myself?

Was it you that agreed with me that Italy is too big to fail but too big to save?

And for putting things in your mouth? That is where I call you out when contradicting yourself. Or saying the opposite of someone that you always normally agree with no matter how wrong they are.
Click to expand...

Yes of course you do..how could I have ever doubted that...

And, yes, the Italy dilemma is that it is too big to fail, but too big to save. It won’t be another Greece.

The uncertainty caused by Brexit and Trump’s tariff war is already making the situation worse as Eurozone growth starts to slow, along with the world economy led by China.
 
A

Ashdown

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 1, 2018
  • #22,792
Some economists and scientists alike have been predicting doom and gloom for a while now. National and personal debt in many countries spiralling, trade wars between major nations, slowdown and uncertainty in some manufacturing industries, Nuclear arms agreements being revoked etc, fresh water shortages, famine, civil wars, environmental and ecological destruction.........At the end of the day if there is a sensible Bexit deal for both sides then it really isn't going to have the impact other world crises are having on everyday life for many people.
 
Reactions: Astute
G

Grappa

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 1, 2018
  • #22,793
lol
 
Reactions: martcov

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 1, 2018
  • #22,794
Grappa said:
lol
Click to expand...

Just watching it on the lunchtime news. A serious and worrying turn of events.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 1, 2018
  • #22,795
Ashdown said:
Some economists and scientists alike have been predicting doom and gloom for a while now. National and personal debt in many countries spiralling, trade wars between major nations, slowdown and uncertainty in some manufacturing industries, Nuclear arms agreements being revoked etc, fresh water shortages, famine, civil wars, environmental and ecological destruction.........At the end of the day if there is a sensible Bexit deal for both sides then it really isn't going to have the impact other world crises are having on everyday life for many people.
Click to expand...

Well no. In the circumstances it is like General Custer seeing more Indians coming.. with no cavalry on the horizon
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 1, 2018
  • #22,796
Astute said:
So I quote things without reading them?

Take a day off. Of course I read what I link.
Click to expand...

I have always thought, by you posts, that you don’t read the last paragraph. You read the headline. Maybe the first paragraph and then post. The truth is often in the last paragraph, or at least a bit of relativity. The headline and the first paragraph, especially in the Daily Farage, are there to ‚push your button‘.
 
C

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 1, 2018
  • #22,797
martcov said:
Yes of course you do..how could I have ever doubted that...

And, yes, the Italy dilemma is that it is too big to fail, but too big to save. It won’t be another Greece.

The uncertainty caused by Brexit and Trump’s tariff war is already making the situation worse as Eurozone growth starts to slow, along with the world economy led by China.
Click to expand...

So you would've thought a sensible deal would be a top priority for all. I note that those who appear to want to see the UK fail post Brexit were quoting Eurozone growth figures last year and earlier this, and some would say gloating when the economy slowed down in the UK. Well as everyone knows economies/growth will vary from month to month, quarter to quarter, year to year for a variety of reasons. Eurozone last quarter was 0.2 (0.4 previous quarter), UK was 0.6 for third quarter (0.4 for previous quarter). It is also to be seen how the ceasing of quantative easing (which many say has supported its consistent growth) will impact the Eurozone in the coming months.

The Eurozone slow down is not good for the UK and nor are some of the wider world issues which is why it is important for a sensible deal so as to not accentuate economic issues. Its also just as important for the EU/remainers to recognise this though.
 
Reactions: fernandopartridge, Astute and Ashdown

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Nov 1, 2018
  • #22,798
skybluetony176 said:
No they haven’t. Successive governments have been complicit with the mafia for decades and have tread the same path. Any arrests and investigations have been for show not effect and on the whole the ringleaders are left unscathed.

The current government is about blaming the EU when it should be looking within first and then demanding EU assistance to deal with it.
Click to expand...

Correct, the mafia is so embedded within the government it's more less impossible to put it to an end. It's funny how after the bombings in Sicily and mass outrage amongst civilians, that the leader of the Sicilian mafia was suddenly found in Palermo after being on the run for years.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 1, 2018
  • #22,799
skybluetony176 said:
Always. That’s been long established. You’re someone with a long history of disagreeing with posters by agreeing with them while not realising that you were. I’ve lost count of the amount of times that you’ve posted a link based on a headline that you’ve presumed backs you but when you actually read the article it either dismisses you or confirms what the other poster has told you in the first place. We’ll call it doing an astute if you like.
Click to expand...
What a load of shite. Don't expect anything else from you these days though.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 1, 2018
  • #22,800
CCFCSteve said:
So you would've thought a sensible deal would be a top priority for all. I note that those who appear to want to see the UK fail post Brexit were quoting Eurozone growth figures last year and earlier this, and some would say gloating when the economy slowed down in the UK. Well as everyone knows economies/growth will vary from month to month, quarter to quarter, year to year for a variety of reasons. Eurozone last quarter was 0.2 (0.4 previous quarter), UK was 0.6 for third quarter (0.4 for previous quarter). It is also to be seen how the ceasing of quantative easing (which many say has supported its consistent growth) will impact the Eurozone in the coming months.

The Eurozone slow down is not good for the UK and nor are some of the wider world issues which is why it is important for a sensible deal so as to not accentuate economic issues. Its also just as important for the EU/remainers to recognise this though.
Click to expand...
The problem is that some can't handle the truth.

Yes we need the EU. We all agree on this. But the EU needs us. And that is where the problem lies. They need our money. And they will do what they can to keep getting our money.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 1, 2018
  • #22,801
skybluetony176 said:
Ha ha ha, yeah good one. Confirmation again that you’ve lost the argument.
Click to expand...
Lost what argument?

I try and have a debate. You always try and turn it into an argument because you don't like the truth.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 1, 2018
  • #22,802
Sick Boy said:
Correct, the mafia is so embedded within the government it's more less impossible to put it to an end. It's funny how after the bombings in Sicily and mass outrage amongst civilians, that the leader of the Sicilian mafia was suddenly found in Palermo after being on the run for years.
Click to expand...
Rita Borsellino, 73, Dies; a Murder Made Her an Anti-Mafia Crusader
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 1, 2018
  • #22,803
CCFCSteve said:
So you would've thought a sensible deal would be a top priority for all. I note that those who appear to want to see the UK fail post Brexit were quoting Eurozone growth figures last year and earlier this, and some would say gloating when the economy slowed down in the UK. Well as everyone knows economies/growth will vary from month to month, quarter to quarter, year to year for a variety of reasons. Eurozone last quarter was 0.2 (0.4 previous quarter), UK was 0.6 for third quarter (0.4 for previous quarter). It is also to be seen how the ceasing of quantative easing (which many say has supported its consistent growth) will impact the Eurozone in the coming months.

The Eurozone slow down is not good for the UK and nor are some of the wider world issues which is why it is important for a sensible deal so as to not accentuate economic issues. Its also just as important for the EU/remainers to recognise this though.
Click to expand...

I am well aware of the connectivity between many things happening together. Trump and Brexit are in some sense the same. They stem from the consequences of 2008. Even SISU has a relationship to 2008 in that they got involved with CCFC just before the crash as people were taking risks and winning. The collapse of the banking system and the end of a period of growth showed up flaws in society. This together with the growth of YouTube, FB and co, has allowed the spread of news and views and hate, which has created new problems by allowing, in effect, some bad people an uncontrolled platform. They can make up stories, alter photos and videos with little or no comeback. No right of reply. I check the links on here, and make a point of googling the author and media source. Often as not, there are dubious people or right wing extremists or just right wing think tanks behind the links. More right wing links from the leaver side. I wonder why? If Brexit were really the will of the people you would expect a mix of left and right and relatively neutral people supporting it.
 
Reactions: Grappa

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Nov 1, 2018
  • #22,804
Astute said:
Rita Borsellino, 73, Dies; a Murder Made Her an Anti-Mafia Crusader
Click to expand...

Very brave woman.
 
Reactions: Astute
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 1, 2018
  • #22,805
Astute said:
The problem is that some can't handle the truth.

Yes we need the EU. We all agree on this. But the EU needs us. And that is where the problem lies. They need our money. And they will do what they can to keep getting our money.
Click to expand...

Missed the whole point of the EU. Our money is needed, but the EU was not formed and does not solely exist to get hold of 9 billion net contributions from the U.K.. If that were true the negotiations would have been finished long ago. Screw Ireland, place the money in this EU bank account. That hasn’t happened.

Why do think that is? Why do you think the EU is risking taking a knock? Your argument is a total contradiction as usual. They will not do anything they can for 9 billion pounds. That is a Faragism. What looks like happening, is the opposite. They will lose the 9 billion and a couple of percent GDP to hold the Union in tact as that is long term far more important than bending the rules for one ex memberstate.
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 1, 2018
  • #22,806
Grappa said:
Click to expand...
In all seriousness at what point does the result come in to question? Is there any set criteria or is it based on what the government and / or public opinion dictates?
 
Reactions: Sick Boy and Grappa

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 1, 2018
  • #22,807
chiefdave said:
In all seriousness at what point does the result come in to question? Is there any set criteria or is it based on what the government and / or public opinion dictates?
Click to expand...

Well as the remain side had a £9 million soviet style propaganda leaflet - which has proven to be a pack of lies - I’d say the remain side was heavily weighted in terms of manipulation from the start.

There is no verdict on this either is there?
 
G

Grappa

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 1, 2018
  • #22,808
Doing a pretty good job too.
 
Reactions: Sick Boy
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 1, 2018
  • #22,809
Grendel said:
Well as the remain side had a £9 million soviet style propaganda leaflet - which has proven to be a pack of lies - I’d say the remain side was heavily weighted in terms of manipulation from the start.

There is no verdict on this either is there?
Click to expand...

Well you would. The leaflet had to be produced because of the HOL and was outside of the regulated campaign. The regulated campaign was seriously violated by leave. No amount of whataboutery will distract from that. I hope the culprits get well punished.
 

dutchman

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 1, 2018
  • #22,810
Speaking of Italy...

 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 2, 2018
  • #22,811
martcov said:
Well you would. The leaflet had to be produced because of the HOL and was outside of the regulated campaign. The regulated campaign was seriously violated by leave. No amount of whataboutery will distract from that. I hope the culprits get well punished.
Click to expand...
Yet it was full of lies and predictions that were miles away from what happened. It was all about the benefits of remaining.

And as you know there was an overspend on the remain side.

Remain, not Leave, had an unfair advantage in the EU referendum - CapX

Subscribe to read | Financial Times

Official EU Remain campaign and Lib Dems fined thousands by election watchdogs
 

SIR ERNIE

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 2, 2018
  • #22,812
chiefdave said:
In all seriousness at what point does the result come in to question?
Click to expand...

For many it was 24.06.16.
 

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 2, 2018
  • #22,813
chiefdave said:
In all seriousness at what point does the result come in to question? Is there any set criteria or is it based on what the government and / or public opinion dictates?
Click to expand...

rumours about Farage all over social media. Gone from an FBI person of interest to actively being investigated apparently.
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Nov 2, 2018
  • #22,814
Astute said:
Yet it was full of lies and predictions that were miles away from what happened. It was all about the benefits of remaining.

And as you know there was an overspend on the remain side.

Remain, not Leave, had an unfair advantage in the EU referendum - CapX

Subscribe to read | Financial Times

Official EU Remain campaign and Lib Dems fined thousands by election watchdogs
Click to expand...

If the likes of Banks were involved in anything pro-EU-related, you'd be all over it.
 
Reactions: Grappa

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 2, 2018
  • #22,815
Sick Boy said:
If the likes of Banks were involved in anything pro-EU-related, you'd be all over it.
Click to expand...

foreign interference in British politics bad, (in the case of an election, it's illegal), - unless it fits your agenda it seems.
 
Reactions: Grappa and Sick Boy
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 2, 2018
  • #22,816
Astute said:
Yet it was full of lies and predictions that were miles away from what happened. It was all about the benefits of remaining.

And as you know there was an overspend on the remain side.

Remain, not Leave, had an unfair advantage in the EU referendum - CapX

Subscribe to read | Financial Times

Official EU Remain campaign and Lib Dems fined thousands by election watchdogs
Click to expand...

Not in regulated campaign.

No comparison.

Predictions part wrong, no Russian money involved or American think tanks.

Back to Selmayr II.

No outrage? May appointed loyal lieutenant as head of UK civil service. No discussion, no vote, no other candidates. Where were you? Not a whimper. Far worse than Selmayr appointment. No inquiry. No ombudsman. No college of 3.

Just a dictat from May.
 
Reactions: Grappa
G

Grappa

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 2, 2018
  • #22,817
The fucking brass neck on Cameron wanting to get back into front-line politics because he's bored. Best keep your trotters up, mate.
 
Reactions: martcov
G

Grappa

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 2, 2018
  • #22,818
Regardless of your stance, this is a nice piece of data visualisation:

 

Captain Dart

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 2, 2018
  • #22,819
Grappa said:
Regardless of your stance, this is a nice piece of data visualisation:

Click to expand...
Talk about over simplification of a complex issue.
 
G

Grappa

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 2, 2018
  • #22,820
Captain Dart said:
Talk about over simplification of a complex issue.
Click to expand...

That's basically what data visualisation is, you tedious try-hard.

 
Last edited: Nov 2, 2018
Reactions: martcov and clint van damme
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