clint van damme
Well-Known Member
fuck me, you couldn't make it up!
Pigeon holing people again Mart.......is exactly what the Remoaners have done ever since they LOST !!
Point them out then.You're contradictions are in your own post and have already been pointed out to you. Mass corruption and organised crime has crippled Italy as well as ridiculous domestic policies that stifle small businesses and those looking to work freelance etc, all of which has nothing to do with the EU.
Young Italians I have spoken to have mostly tended to point blame at their successive governments and organised crime.
There is anger of the handling of the refugee crisis though, which is aimed more at individual countries like France and the UK for not taking on their share of these people. Personally, I don't think the country of first entry should shoulder all of the burden, and it's an area I think needs reform.
Nah, you're alright mate !fuck me, you couldn't make it up!
Point them out then.
Just like as you make other accusations like you said about me saying Germany wants out of the EU. But you couldn't point out where I have said it.
So you are saying that Italians are blaming the French and us and not the EU?
Here is a good read about the present problems. It describes them very well.
If the euro cracks, blame Germany, not the Italians
Italians happy with the EU?
Italians fall out of love with the EU - but will they ever leave?
Nothing was pointed out. Just accusations like when you said a couple if days ago I said the Germans wanted out if the EU but still haven't pointed out where I said it.They've already been pointed out to you, what's the point in doing it again? Your 2nd article opens with claims about a poll saying a majority want to remain in the eurozone and EU and the first is an opinion piece.
I'd rather go on my own experience of the country and its people rather than your desperation to try and claim counties across the EU are in admiration or Britain's choice.
Nothing was pointed out. Just accusations like when you said a couple if days ago I said the Germans wanted out if the EU but still haven't pointed out where I said it.
FFS. OK SB. You have a point to prove it seems. So where have I said that countries across the EU admire us for Brexit?
You are getting as bad as Mart for false news and false accusations.
The 1st is an opinion piece? It states a lot of facts. And was it you or Mart that said Italy is too big to fail but too big to save? They are in full agreement. They can't pay their debts. The EU wants more austerity in Italy. Italian plans keep within one EU financial rule but not another.
So listen carefully this time. This isn't me saying one or the other should happen as I was accused last time.
The only way out for Italy other than serious austerity measures is either default on their debt repayments or to have much of it written off.
And you wouldn't agree with serious austerity measures as you always had a go at smaller austerity measures in the UK.
fuck me, you couldn't make it up!
I don't get the point you are trying to make.Yet some will still try and argue the point that many long standing political parties throughout the EU are losing votes. The unrest is getting worse. People have had enough of being dictated to by the EU.
Anyway @Astute, this was your response to Dart's article on the German elections and people having had enough of the EU.
Unless you're now suggesting that you were responding to an article about Germany but not talking about Germany and its voters, unless you believe other voters from other countries were able to vote in the elections?
So are you disagreeing with SB or myself?To correct you: Mart doesn’t make false news or accusations. You often put things into my mouth and then claim that I said them.
And was it you or Mart that said Italy is too big to fail but too big to save?
Nothing was pointed out. Just accusations like when you said a couple if days ago I said the Germans wanted out if the EU but still haven't pointed out where I said it.
FFS. OK SB. You have a point to prove it seems. So where have I said that countries across the EU admire us for Brexit?
You are getting as bad as Mart for false news and false accusations.
The 1st is an opinion piece? It states a lot of facts. And was it you or Mart that said Italy is too big to fail but too big to save? They are in full agreement. They can't pay their debts. The EU wants more austerity in Italy. Italian plans keep within one EU financial rule but not another.
So listen carefully this time. This isn't me saying one or the other should happen as I was accused last time.
The only way out for Italy other than serious austerity measures is either default on their debt repayments or to have much of it written off.
And you wouldn't agree with serious austerity measures as you always had a go at smaller austerity measures in the UK.
Me twisting everything? You keep saying that I have said something but when I ask you to point out where I have said it you haven't once pointed it out. All I can think is that you are trying to stop me from talking the truth on here. Because it doesn't look good for the future of the EU and the Euro.I'm going to call it a day 'debating' this topic with you as it's increasingly becoming a waste of time and your twisting everything and general hypocrisy.
The 1st is an opinion piece? It states a lot of facts.
All I can think is that you are trying to stop me from talking the truth on here.
Yes I have seen it. And I don't deny it. I don't want Brexit to happen although now I know more about how the EU is run I have shifted towards leaving. But it still isn't my preference. This is something those who want to stay in the EU whatever can't get their heads around.I’m glad that you think the author talks sense based on facts. Have you seen his opinion on brexit? Self-immolation is how he’s described it.
Of course it is. Because I ask you to point out where your allegations are. And you can't point them out as they don't exist. And you don't like anyone saying anything bad about the EU or Italy. You just want it to be about how bad things could get for the UK and nothing else.As I said, it's absolutely pointless and waste of time.
Of course it is. Because I ask you to point out where your allegations are. And you can't point them out as they don't exist. And you don't like anyone saying anything bad about the EU or Italy. You just want it to be about how bad things could get for the UK and nothing else.
The big question is what is the right road to take.Italy can get out of it the same as Ireland did. Problem for Italy is it has long failed to come to terms with corruption and the mafia. It also still paying for the legacy of Berlursconi. Italy’s very own Trump. Non of that is going to change by leaving either the Euro or the EU. It’s down to decades and decades of failing domestic policies. It’s going to be a long road for Italy and there’s no assurance that they’re going to take the right turns.
I don't accuse you of saying what you haven't. I am still waiting for you to show everyone where I have said what you have accused me of.It's actually due to your belief that only you speak 'the truth' and your continued attempts to portray yourself as omnipresent.
I don't accuse you of saying what you haven't. I am still waiting for you to show everyone where I have said what you have accused me of.
So I say that things might get bad for the UK. You agree with me. I say that things might get bad for Italy which would cause major problems for the EU and Euro. You don't want to talk about it.
Yes I have seen it. And I don't deny it. I don't want Brexit to happen although now I know more about how the EU is run I have shifted towards leaving. But it still isn't my preference. This is something those who want to stay in the EU whatever can't get their heads around.
I don't search for links that are only good on one side. I look for something as neutral as I can find. And I am glad you have noticed and even mentioned it for once.
You have pointed nothing out at all.They've already been pointed out to you. On one hand you claimed that austerity was for the best for Britain, yet for Italy it was a negative.
And things have been bad for Italy for years, it's nothing new.
You have pointed nothing out at all.
How about pointing out where you have pointed it out other than you just saying that you have already pointed something out.
Ha ha ha, yeah ok. Another juxtaposed of position from astute.
Explain yourself.Ha ha ha, yeah ok. Another juxtaposed of position from astute.
Show the history.It's all in the history of this thread for you to find.
Show the history.
If it was there you would. It is all the last couple of days. Not hard to find. Well it wouldn't be if it existed.
So back on to Italy
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...98507a-5eb5-11e8-b2b8-08a538d9dbd6_story.html
Have I?He has claimed to have switched sides multiple times now.
Have I?
I didn't vote leave. I have never voted UKIP like someone on here hey Tony.
You are only happy with someone who says EU good UK bad.
Exactly. You accuse then refuse to point out where it has been said because it doesn't exist.No, thanks.
And I have no wish to 'debate' with you, it's an utter farce.
The big question is what is the right road to take.
Whichever road is taken needs a lot of help from someone.
But I can't see the EU wanting to help too much. They could have wiped out the debts of Greece. But it would have sent the wrong message to everyone else. So I would guess that help to Italy from the EU will be limited.
Hundreds of billions of debt is owed from Italy to Germany and France. But most of it is owed to France. Germany writing off the debt would only be like using a sticking plaster. And why should Germany write off the debt?
And what have I been saying?You claimed that you had now switched to being full-on leave a few months ago before claiming that you were previously remain. Probably so that you can claim to be on either side depending how it pans out.
View attachment 10847
For me you've already been pro-Brexit and always will be.
Yes they need to start at the bottom. But they have been trying for years to get rid of the mafia problem.They need a straight laced government that declares war on historic corruption and the mafia. The two go hand in hand. The EU should back them in doing this, there should be no stone unturned and no immunity for anyone. There’s a reason why the major crossing for illegal immigrants from Africa to Europe is Libya to Italy and it’s historical political and criminal links. Look at who’s been involved in that historically in all aspects and you have your starting point.
Libya and the mafia go back decades and links to terrorism from the IRA to ISIS in supplying and overseeing the supply of arms to laundering antiquities pilferaged by ISIS to facilitating the migrant crisis in the EU. The mafia is an EU problem but for the most part has to be dealt with in Italy, secondly Malta where the mafia issues is largely under reported by the media and is a much larger issue than many realise.
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