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The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (14 Viewers)

  • Thread starter jimmyhillsfanclub
  • Start date Jun 8, 2016
Forums New posts

As of right now, how are thinking of voting? In or out

  • Remain

    Votes: 23 37.1%
  • Leave

    Votes: 35 56.5%
  • Undecided

    Votes: 3 4.8%
  • Not registered or not intention to vote

    Votes: 1 1.6%

  • Total voters
    62
  • Poll closed Jun 15, 2016.
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A

Ashdown

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 25, 2018
  • #22,506
Seems to be hell of a correction on stock prices going on ?!
 

Captain Dart

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 25, 2018
  • #22,507
Ashdown said:
Seems to be hell of a correction on stock prices going on ?!
Click to expand...
US interest rates about to go up?
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 25, 2018
  • #22,508
Ashdown said:
Seems to be hell of a correction on stock prices going on ?!
Click to expand...
All ready to bite those who have debts they can't afford to service.
 
Reactions: Sick Boy and martcov
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 25, 2018
  • #22,509
Astute said:
All ready to bite those who have debts they can't afford to service.
Click to expand...

Not a time to be making more debt.
 
S

SkyblueBazza

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 25, 2018
  • #22,510
Sick Boy said:
It's another long line of predictions that haven't come to fruition. The EU and the coalition will eventually compromise. The 5Star's record when in power is not good and there's a lot of worried people over there about the impact they'll have on the country long-term.
Click to expand...
I think the longest line of predictions has been from the remainers, based upon speculation by themselves or other 'experts'.

And yet despite the scaremongering..."Exclusive: UK to remain BlackRock's EMEA headquarters after Brexit - memo" - Exclusive - UK to remain BlackRock's EMEA headquarters after Brexit - memo | Reuters

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
 
S

SkyblueBazza

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 25, 2018
  • #22,511
skybluetony176 said:
You’re the one who said that they only existed in someone’s head. Don’t know why you’re making it about me. You’re the one who seems unaware of what some Tories have said, some high profile ones to boot. Is that the same as saying that the Tory party is “riddled with Nazis”? Clearly not regardless of your poor attempt to put those words into my mouth. However when comparing a statement that they only exist in someone’s head to riddled with Nazis the latter clearly would be the most accurate, even though it’s not accurate at all. That’s a good measurement of how wrong you are.
Click to expand...
Yeah...come G...any hint of racist langauge (by non-racists) is punishable by death! On the other hand anti-semitism seems only worthy of mild verbal admonishment.

Oh & leave poor Tony alone - it's not about him. I sense you are making his bottom lip wobble...& that can't be right!

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 25, 2018
  • #22,512
SkyblueBazza said:
Yeah...come G...any hint of racist langauge (by non-racists) is punishable by death! On the other hand anti-semitism seems only worthy of mild verbal admonishment.

Oh & leave poor Tony alone - it's not about him. I sense you are making his bottom lip wobble...& that can't be right!

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Hahaha, you’re funny. Not sure if it’s deliberate or not but you are funny.
 
Reactions: martcov

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 25, 2018
  • #22,513
SkyblueBazza said:
I think the longest line of predictions has been from the remainers, based upon speculation by themselves or other 'experts'.

And yet despite the scaremongering..."Exclusive: UK to remain BlackRock's EMEA headquarters after Brexit - memo" - Exclusive - UK to remain BlackRock's EMEA headquarters after Brexit - memo | Reuters

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

I'm not sure if you're being serious or not.
Yes, this is good news, but you've totally dismissed the warnings from the likes of JLR, Nissan, Honda etc. Do you think this negates their concerns? Seriously?
 
Reactions: Sick Boy

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 25, 2018
  • #22,514
SkyblueBazza said:
I think the longest line of predictions has been from the remainers, based upon speculation by themselves or other 'experts'.

And yet despite the scaremongering..."Exclusive: UK to remain BlackRock's EMEA headquarters after Brexit - memo" - Exclusive - UK to remain BlackRock's EMEA headquarters after Brexit - memo | Reuters

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
But they are also keeping their options open.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 25, 2018
  • #22,515
clint van damme said:
I'm not sure if you're being serious or not.
Yes, this is good news, but you've totally dismissed the warnings from the likes of JLR, Nissan, Honda etc. Do you think this negates their concerns? Seriously?
Click to expand...
It is all about potential good news and potential bad news.

I still don't think it will be as good as it could be or as bad as it could get. The EU is fragile. They need our trading market. Even the strongest market Germany would hurt if they continued with their threats. The main point is what do we have to offer or give away for the right deal?
 

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 25, 2018
  • #22,516
Astute said:
It is all about potential good news and potential bad news.

I still don't think it will be as good as it could be or as bad as it could get. The EU is fragile. They need our trading market. Even the strongest market Germany would hurt if they continued with their threats. The main point is what do we have to offer or give away for the right deal?
Click to expand...

there's only really one thing holding it all up now and that's the Irish border and I don't think anyone has any wiggle room.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 25, 2018
  • #22,517
clint van damme said:
there's only really one thing holding it all up now and that's the Irish border and I don't think anyone has any wiggle room.
Click to expand...
It will be solved when all sides want it solved. Nothing is unsolvable.

Once we know the trade deal we can look at the remaining problems and solve them 1 at a time. But a border inside Ireland is a no whatever.
 

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 25, 2018
  • #22,518
Astute said:
It will be solved when all sides want it solved. Nothing is unsolvable.

Once we know the trade deal we can look at the remaining problems and solve them 1 at a time. But a border inside Ireland is a no whatever.
Click to expand...

we can't start looking at a trade deal until the Irish border question is resolved, that was the agreed framework for negotiations.
No way May can propose a border in the Irish sea, the EU can't have a border between the Republic and the rest of the EU and there can't be a border between the north and south without contravening the GFA.
The only other option is staying in the customs union, May might get away with that if enough Labour MPs supported the proposal but I think the tories would probably get shot of her before they had chance.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 25, 2018
  • #22,519
clint van damme said:
we can't start looking at a trade deal until the Irish border question is resolved, that was the agreed framework for negotiations.
No way May can propose a border in the Irish sea, the EU can't have a border between the Republic and the rest of the EU and there can't be a border between the north and south without contravening the GFA.
The only other option is staying in the customs union, May might get away with that if enough Labour MPs supported the proposal but I think the tories would probably get shot of her before they had chance.
Click to expand...

A border will not contravene the GF agreement
 

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 25, 2018
  • #22,520
Grendel said:
A border will not contravene the GF agreement
Click to expand...

any alteration to the border, I forget the actual term they use, additional construction, that's not it but something along those lines.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 25, 2018
  • #22,521
clint van damme said:
any alteration to the border, I forget the actual term they use, additional construction, that's not it but something along those lines.
Click to expand...

No it won’t
 
S

SkyblueBazza

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 25, 2018
  • #22,522
clint van damme said:
I'm not sure if you're being serious or not.
Yes, this is good news, but you've totally dismissed the warnings from the likes of JLR, Nissan, Honda etc. Do you think this negates their concerns? Seriously?
Click to expand...
You cite words...I cite actions.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
 

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 25, 2018
  • #22,523
Grendel said:
No it won’t
Click to expand...

are you sure? And the UK government has already committed to no additional infrastructure in talks with the EU.
I can't see any solution.
 

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 25, 2018
  • #22,524
SkyblueBazza said:
You cite words...I cite actions.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

you think companies haven't moved because of Brexit?
You think BMW pulling forward their shut downs isn't anything to do with Brexit?
You think they haven't put the brakes on investment, of course they have?

Lets face it, you won't admit anything negative about Brexit whereas I can acknowledge positives when they're presented like the link you provided.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 25, 2018
  • #22,525
Grendel said:
No it won’t
Click to expand...

Based on what?
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 25, 2018
  • #22,526
skybluetony176 said:
Based on what?
Click to expand...

The actual wording of the agreement
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 25, 2018
  • #22,527
Grendel said:
The actual wording of the agreement
Click to expand...

Which is?
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 25, 2018
  • #22,528
skybluetony176 said:
Which is?
Click to expand...

What do you mean. Read it and it’s apparent what the option is.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 25, 2018
  • #22,529
Grendel said:
What do you mean. Read it and it’s apparent what the option is.
Click to expand...

Which is?
 

dutchman

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 25, 2018
  • #22,530
The news just gets bettter and better...

Angela Merkel prepares for second electoral disaster in Hesse



Germany’s ruling parties are bracing for a second electoral disaster within a fortnight as polls for Sunday’s regional election in Hesse suggest that voters will punish Angela Merkel’s shaky coalition government.

Sunday’s vote could plunge Germany’s grand coalition into a fresh crisis, with polls showing a nosedive in support for both Merkel’s Christian Democrats (CDU) and coalition partner Social Democrats (SPD), reflecting a nationwide trend.

Both parties are trying to play down the significance of the regional election, which comes just two weeks after a catastrophic poll in Bavaria widely blamed on the failings of the Berlin government.

Home to Germany’s financial centre, Frankfurt am Main, Hesse is a former swing state long seen as a bellwether for national politics. For the past 20 years it has been ruled by various CDU-led coalitions. But now polls have the CDU plummeting to 26%, a drop of 12 points since 2013.

The result would spell an end to the state’s current CDU-Green coalition and possibly topple the CDU state premier and close Merkel ally, Volker Bouffier.
 
Reactions: Captain Dart

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Oct 25, 2018
  • #22,531
clint van damme said:
I'm not sure if you're being serious or not.
Yes, this is good news, but you've totally dismissed the warnings from the likes of JLR, Nissan, Honda etc. Do you think this negates their concerns? Seriously?
Click to expand...

He probably does.
 
A

Ashdown

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 25, 2018
  • #22,532
clint van damme said:
you think companies haven't moved because of Brexit?
You think BMW pulling forward their shut downs isn't anything to do with Brexit?
You think they haven't put the brakes on investment, of course they have?

Lets face it, you won't admit anything negative about Brexit whereas I can acknowledge positives when they're presented like the link you provided.
Click to expand...
The car companies are having to have rethinks and make strategic decisions more based on Diesel engines and new legislation than Brexit at the moment, although I agree of course they need smooth supply lines and fair trading agreements too going forward.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 25, 2018
  • #22,533
skybluetony176 said:
Which is?
Click to expand...

Tony I explained this on this thread to Mart. He went predictably silent other than muttering something about the “spirit of the agreement”

If you want the answer ask your friend. I am not posting the relevant sections within the act again.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 25, 2018
  • #22,534
Grendel said:
A border will not contravene the GF agreement
Click to expand...

It would take away the real existing framework upon which it was made. It would no longer be accepted.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 25, 2018
  • #22,535
Grendel said:
Tony I explained this on this thread to Mart. He went predictably silent other than muttering something about the “spirit of the agreement”

If you want the answer ask your friend. I am not posting the relevant sections within the act again.
Click to expand...

No. You haven’t linked anything to support your and Rees Mogg‘s interpretation. The framework of the GFA is that there is no border. With a border the rest is nonsense. E.g. if you feel you are Irish, you lose that feeling if you come to a border. You are guaranteed to feel Irish, British or British Irish. Start putting a border with physical checkpoints and there is the end of the agreement.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 25, 2018
  • #22,536
dutchman said:
The news just gets bettter and better...

Angela Merkel prepares for second electoral disaster in Hesse



Germany’s ruling parties are bracing for a second electoral disaster within a fortnight as polls for Sunday’s regional election in Hesse suggest that voters will punish Angela Merkel’s shaky coalition government.

Sunday’s vote could plunge Germany’s grand coalition into a fresh crisis, with polls showing a nosedive in support for both Merkel’s Christian Democrats (CDU) and coalition partner Social Democrats (SPD), reflecting a nationwide trend.

Both parties are trying to play down the significance of the regional election, which comes just two weeks after a catastrophic poll in Bavaria widely blamed on the failings of the Berlin government.

Home to Germany’s financial centre, Frankfurt am Main, Hesse is a former swing state long seen as a bellwether for national politics. For the past 20 years it has been ruled by various CDU-led coalitions. But now polls have the CDU plummeting to 26%, a drop of 12 points since 2013.

The result would spell an end to the state’s current CDU-Green coalition and possibly topple the CDU state premier and close Merkel ally, Volker Bouffier.
Click to expand...

And what do you stand to gain? Why are you wetting yourself in anticipation? There will just be a different coalition or minority government. Sorry to disappoint you, but no one will let AFD anywhere near power.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 25, 2018
  • #22,537
dutchman said:
The news just gets bettter and better...

Angela Merkel prepares for second electoral disaster in Hesse



Germany’s ruling parties are bracing for a second electoral disaster within a fortnight as polls for Sunday’s regional election in Hesse suggest that voters will punish Angela Merkel’s shaky coalition government.

Sunday’s vote could plunge Germany’s grand coalition into a fresh crisis, with polls showing a nosedive in support for both Merkel’s Christian Democrats (CDU) and coalition partner Social Democrats (SPD), reflecting a nationwide trend.

Both parties are trying to play down the significance of the regional election, which comes just two weeks after a catastrophic poll in Bavaria widely blamed on the failings of the Berlin government.

Home to Germany’s financial centre, Frankfurt am Main, Hesse is a former swing state long seen as a bellwether for national politics. For the past 20 years it has been ruled by various CDU-led coalitions. But now polls have the CDU plummeting to 26%, a drop of 12 points since 2013.

The result would spell an end to the state’s current CDU-Green coalition and possibly topple the CDU state premier and close Merkel ally, Volker Bouffier.
Click to expand...

I just checked the latest polls and it seems most likely to be a Jamaica coalition- CDU, FDP and Greens. You’ll love that. Greens are more humane than CDU and want the families of accepted refugees to be allowed in to join them.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 25, 2018
  • #22,538
martcov said:
No. You haven’t linked anything to support your and Rees Mogg‘s interpretation. The framework of the GFA is that there is no border. With a border the rest is nonsense. E.g. if you feel you are Irish, you lose that feeling if you come to a border. You are guaranteed to feel Irish, British or British Irish. Start putting a border with physical checkpoints and there is the end of the agreement.
Click to expand...

No I showed you the relevant sub clauses in the agreement and the options that exist for the parliament in Ireland to decide.

Christ do I have to hold your hand and use crayons to read the clauses to you
 

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 25, 2018
  • #22,539
Ashdown said:
The car companies are having to have rethinks and make strategic decisions more based on Diesel engines and new legislation than Brexit at the moment, although I agree of course they need smooth supply lines and fair trading agreements too going forward.
Click to expand...

Jag particularly have fucked up with regard to the diesel issue. If Brexit was cancelled tomorrow they'd still be struggling but BMWs concern for their supply chain is genuine.
I've no doubt they'll be chaos for JIT manufacturers in the event of a no deal.
What I have no idea of is how long it will take to sort out - I can't see it being allowed to go on indefinitely but how much damage will be done in the mean time?
 
Reactions: Astute

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 25, 2018
  • #22,540
clint van damme said:
we can't start looking at a trade deal until the Irish border question is resolved, that was the agreed framework for negotiations.
No way May can propose a border in the Irish sea, the EU can't have a border between the Republic and the rest of the EU and there can't be a border between the north and south without contravening the GFA.
The only other option is staying in the customs union, May might get away with that if enough Labour MPs supported the proposal but I think the tories would probably get shot of her before they had chance.
Click to expand...
Agreed timeframe?

That is what makes me laugh. The EU states something will happen or the EU states that something will happen in a certain way. They dictate what is happening. This then becomes something agreed at a later date.

The EU said that we would have to solve the problem of Ireland before we could go any further. How was this an agreed framework?

And yet again we have to solve issues we don't know about until we know about any sort of trade deal. It is ifs and buts until we know the details.
 
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