The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (9 Viewers)

Astute · Oct 13, 2018

skybluetony176 said:
I love the way Mark Carney is all of a sudden the authority on brexit. Large parts of this thread is all about dismissing warnings that have come from Carney. Newspapers like the express blame Carney for pretty much every negative effect felt so far from brexit and Rees-Mogg has described him as a wailing banshee. Carney is exactly the type of expert that leave backers are apparently tired of listening to. Yet...

But Carney was your hero until this. What has changed your mind?

As you have admitted you are clueless on the subject. Yet you still try to make your normal pro EU anti UK comments.

Mart will have searched the net for something to contradict what I have said. Yet he has found nothing. You could well have looked but you wouldn't have a clue what to look for.

Carney an authority on Brexit? No. But he has more involvement than the vast majority involved in it. He is the main person who has been preparing the UK for whatever happens.

I suppose you are going to say this isn't true next.

Astute · Oct 13, 2018

martcov said:
Carney thinks Brexit is a crap idea. Why don’t you stick to that argument? You say the EU is incompetent. The only people that appear to be very incompetent are the ones who voted for one of at least 4 Brexits without thinking about possible consequences. We should have a second referendum with 5 choices. The current 4 main leave options: Canada + ( ++, +++ ), Norway, Chequers and no deal ( all of which are not compatible with another ), with remain as the fifth option. Let the people choose. I think remain would win hands down and become the current will of the people. Any other version would be a minority version against the wishes of the majority. Democracy? Yeah but no but yeah...

OMG.

Yes Carney thinks Brexit is a very bad idea. You and the other Pro EU whatever happens have celebrated this constantly. But he has been warning about this since March. This has been ignored. Now the Pro EU whatever happens are saying he is wrong. But you can't find anyone who knows what they are talking about saying he is wrong. Why is that?

And back into you saying that I have said the EU is incompetent. I gave you a few choices. One of them was there could well be a trade deal that includes all this crap. There was they don't have a clue what the whole thing means. But they still push on with it whatever. This is incompetence.

So I didn't call them incompetent. I gave you that choice. But if course you twist what I said.

skybluetony176 · Oct 13, 2018

Astute said:
But Carney was your hero until this. What has changed your mind?

As you have admitted you are clueless on the subject. Yet you still try to make your normal pro EU anti UK comments.

Mart will have searched the net for something to contradict what I have said. Yet he has found nothing. You could well have looked but you wouldn't have a clue what to look for.

Carney an authority on Brexit? No. But he has more involvement than the vast majority involved in it. He is the main person who has been preparing the UK for whatever happens.

I suppose you are going to say this isn't true next.

My hero? Pretty sure that was the first time I mentioned him. Twisting again I see.

Besides, he’s your hero now.

Pro EU anti U.K. hey? You really are a moron.

You haven’t said anything. You’ve repeated what someone else has said and have been very selective about repeating what he has said. Surprising really as the person you’re quoting is in your view pro EU anti U.K.

Then you ask a question and answer it. Talking to yourself again.

SIR ERNIE · Oct 13, 2018

Interesting. German industry getting pissed off with the EU zealots...

German bosses are sick of the Brussels bully boys, writes ROBERT HARDMAN | Daily Mail Online

martcov · Oct 13, 2018

SIR ERNIE said:
Interesting. German industry getting pissed off with the EU zealots...

German bosses are sick of the Brussels bully boys, writes ROBERT HARDMAN | Daily Mail Online

I got as far as Daily Mail...

martcov · Oct 13, 2018

Astute said:
But Carney was your hero until this. What has changed your mind?

As you have admitted you are clueless on the subject. Yet you still try to make your normal pro EU anti UK comments.

Mart will have searched the net for something to contradict what I have said. Yet he has found nothing. You could well have looked but you wouldn't have a clue what to look for.

Carney an authority on Brexit? No. But he has more involvement than the vast majority involved in it. He is the main person who has been preparing the UK for whatever happens.

I suppose you are going to say this isn't true next.

I have found that the EU is well aware of the problem. That there are 3 alternatives being mooted. That there is division amongst regulators as what to do for the best. That Brexit automatically made the UK a third country and created the problems. That Carney sees what’s coming up and is pressing for a reaction. I see that the EU is trying to get a piece of the action by forcing the issue.

I have found nothing that surprises me and that the whole mess once again proves that Brexit is a stupid idea.

SIR ERNIE · Oct 13, 2018

martcov said:
I have found that the EU is well aware of the problem. That there are 3 alternatives being mooted. That there is division amongst regulators as what to do for the best. That Brexit automatically made the UK a third country and created the problems. That Carney sees what’s coming up and is pressing for a reaction. I see that the EU is trying to get a piece of the action by forcing the issue.

I have found nothing that surprises me and that the whole mess once again proves that Brexit is a stupid idea.

I got as far as martcov...

skybluetony176 · Oct 13, 2018

martcov said:
I got as far as Daily Mail...

It references one German business leader from a German company who also has a U.K. office. Understandably they have concerns but the majority of the article is filled out with supposes, rhetoric and the authors personal opinion.

The backlash from business based on this article is a million miles away from the concerns voiced in this country from major business and manufacturing. JCB and Dyson seem to be the only two companies that are pro leave and they’ve both had beef with the European Courts.

Astute · Oct 13, 2018

skybluetony176 said:
My hero? Pretty sure that was the first time I mentioned him. Twisting again I see.

Besides, he’s your hero now.

Pro EU anti U.K. hey? You really are a moron.

You haven’t said anything. You’ve repeated what someone else has said and have been very selective about repeating what he has said. Surprising really as the person you’re quoting is in your view pro EU anti U.K.

Then you ask a question and answer it. Talking to yourself again.

So yesterday you accused me of talking about something you admit you are clueless on and tried to say I am as clueless as you. Today you say I have said nothing.

You posted comments on links provided with his comments countless times. You were saying that with his job he is very knowledgeable. Now you try to say he knows nothing.

Well done.

Astute · Oct 13, 2018

SIR ERNIE said:
Interesting. German industry getting pissed off with the EU zealots...

German bosses are sick of the Brussels bully boys, writes ROBERT HARDMAN | Daily Mail Online

But nobody in the EU wants a deal. Ask Mart. It will damage the UK badly but will only be a little splash in a big pond.

And it is all lies as it is in the Mail.

Did you a favour there Mart. Answered it for you.

Astute · Oct 13, 2018

skybluetony176 said:
It references one German business leader from a German company who also has a U.K. office. Understandably they have concerns but the majority of the article is filled out with supposes, rhetoric and the authors personal opinion.

The backlash from business based on this article is a million miles away from the concerns voiced in this country from major business and manufacturing. JCB and Dyson seem to be the only two companies that are pro leave and they’ve both had beef with the European Courts.

German industry starts to fret over no-deal Brexit as global threats mount

German automakers see no way around post-Brexit tariffs

Astute · Oct 13, 2018

martcov said:
I have found that the EU is well aware of the problem. That there are 3 alternatives being mooted. That there is division amongst regulators as what to do for the best. That Brexit automatically made the UK a third country and created the problems. That Carney sees what’s coming up and is pressing for a reaction. I see that the EU is trying to get a piece of the action by forcing the issue.

I have found nothing that surprises me and that the whole mess once again proves that Brexit is a stupid idea.

Like I said it won't be easy. They will now know this. They have had 2 years to sort something. They have had warnings since last year. Carney has been warning them most of this year.

5 months to go and nothing has been done.

All the fault of Brexit but nothing to do with the reason why the majority voted leave.

So what do you think of the chances of a good deal for both sides?

Or do you still say the EU doesn't need a deal?

martcov · Oct 13, 2018

Astute said:
But nobody in the EU wants a deal. Ask Mart. It will damage the UK badly but will only be a little splash in a big pond.

And it is all lies as it is in the Mail.

Did you a favour there Mart. Answered it for you.

You answer most things for me and then deny putting words in my mouth..

Astute · Oct 13, 2018

martcov said:
You answer most things for me and then deny putting words in my mouth..

They are the words you have constantly used or used recently.

Nobody in the EU wants a deal. Mart saying.

Little splash in a big pond. Mart saying.

All lies as it is in the Mail. Mart saying.

martcov · Oct 13, 2018

Astute said:
Like I said it won't be easy. They will now know this. They have had 2 years to sort something. They have had warnings since last year. Carney has been warning them most of this year.

5 months to go and nothing has been done.

All the fault of Brexit but nothing to do with the reason why the majority voted leave.

So what do you think of the chances of a good deal for both sides?

Or do you still say the EU doesn't need a deal?

We all need a deal. You are now trying to blame the EU for Brexit failures. As predicted by „remoaners“. We are liars and the EU is to blame when things go pear shaped. Remain is now the most supported option on the table. It is a disgrace that this farce is still continuing. There is no majority for any single leave option on the table, but half the country would vote remain if offered. 27,5 EU countries want us to stay, but still we go on, divided and still with no single leave plan. Leaving for the sake of leaving. A joke.

martcov · Oct 13, 2018

Astute said:
They are the words you have constantly used or used recently.

Nobody in the EU wants a deal. Mart saying.

Little splash in a big pond. Mart saying.

All lies as it is in the Mail. Mart saying.

You are getting totally confused. I have never said nobody wants a deal and nor have I ever used the term „splash in a pond“. At best you said that I said that when you were putting words into my mouth.

Astute · Oct 13, 2018

martcov said:
We all need a deal. You are now trying to blame the EU for Brexit failures. As predicted by „remoaners“. We are liars and the EU is to blame when things go pear shaped. Remain is now the most supported option on the table. It is a disgrace that this farce is still continuing. There is no majority for any single leave option on the table, but half the country would vote remain if offered. 27,5 EU countries want us to stay, but still we go on, divided and still with no single leave plan. Leaving for the sake of leaving. A joke.

So the EU suddenly needs a deal?

WOW. Never thought you would be truthful on the matter.

So what do you think of those ruining the EU not wanting to negotiate a deal?

Astute · Oct 13, 2018

martcov said:
You are getting totally confused. I have never said nobody wants a deal and nor have I ever used the term „splash in a pond“. At best you said that I said that when you were putting words into my mouth.

Ok. The EU doesn't need a deal. It is the UK that will suffer.

martcov · Oct 13, 2018

Astute said:
So the EU suddenly needs a deal?

WOW. Never thought you would be truthful on the matter.

So what do you think of those ruining the EU not wanting to negotiate a deal?

They want a deal which gives them some of the financial business from London.

You don’t need to lie.

Who is not negotiating? We keep hearing that 90% is done and there is some movement on Ireland. Are you referring to Arlene Foster, or the DUP who have said they won’t accept May giving in on the NI border backstop deal. 10 MPs holding the UK, EU and ROI back.

Yes, the DUP is a disgrace. NI voted remain and the majority want a deal. 28% back the DUP in NI. No idea if anyone in GB backs their position.

It’s democracy, get over it.

Brexit is a bad joke.

Astute · Oct 13, 2018

martcov said:
They want a deal which gives them some of the financial business from London.

So what happened to no cherry picking?

martcov · Oct 13, 2018

Astute said:
So what happened to no cherry picking?

The EU aren’t playing game. The UK will be a third country and out off the EU regulatory area. It will have to make some sort of deal to keep passporting rights. Carney is putting in the Euro clearing system as a bargaining chip. The UK wants to leave but keep the benefits - that is called cherry picking. The EU has said it won’t happen. They may have to give up something on the euro clearing, but they want to get as much as they can out of it. They are letting Carney sweat and claim the businesses should amend their contracts accordingly and don’t need regulatory support. I don’t know who is right on that. If we remained none of this would be happening. Brexit is a joke.

SIR ERNIE · Oct 13, 2018

Astute said:
But nobody in the EU wants a deal. Ask Mart. It will damage the UK badly but will only be a little splash in a big pond.

And it is all lies as it is in the Mail.

Did you a favour there Mart. Answered it for you.

Yes it's an interesting take on the no-deal scenario Astute. The likes of mart would have us believe that German industry will carry on without a care. The truth is very different:

<<By common consent, the moment has come for Angela Merkel to intervene. British-born engineer Richard Lawrence, who has built up a successful power repair business in Munich and raised his family here, says he has no doubt the German leader will come on board when things get what he calls ‘hypercritical’ in the coming weeks.

‘Right now, it’s all a show. Everyone has to look like they won,’ he says. ‘Merkel is staying out until the last moment. Once BMW start laying off workers, she’ll be in there.’

No one is keener on resolving the Brexit impasse than the German car industry. One German job in seven depends on it, and Britain is one of its biggest markets. It is not just that Britain buys so many German cars, but that so many are made in the UK.

Dr Tobias Nickel is head of corporate communications for Draxlmaier, one of the world’s biggest makers of door panels and wiring harnesses for cars.

Among the company’s major clients is Jaguar Land Rover (JLR). Such is the advanced state of car design now that his company has just three days to build each bespoke panel for every new JLR car, and must then get it from Germany to the British factory within a precise four-hour window.

Miss that slot and you hold up an entire plant, with punitive results. The idea of 30-mile traffic jams at the Channel is the stuff of nightmares. He dreads a ‘no deal’>>

skybluetony176 · Oct 13, 2018

Astute said:
So yesterday you accused me of talking about something you admit you are clueless on and tried to say I am as clueless as you. Today you say I have said nothing.

You posted comments on links provided with his comments countless times. You were saying that with his job he is very knowledgeable. Now you try to say he knows nothing.

Well done.

Predictably king twister makes out I’ve said something I haven’t.

martcov · Oct 13, 2018

SIR ERNIE said:
Yes it's an interesting take on the no-deal scenario Astute. The likes of mart would have us believe that German industry will carry on without a care. The truth is very different:

<<By common consent, the moment has come for Angela Merkel to intervene. British-born engineer Richard Lawrence, who has built up a successful power repair business in Munich and raised his family here, says he has no doubt the German leader will come on board when things get what he calls ‘hypercritical’ in the coming weeks.

‘Right now, it’s all a show. Everyone has to look like they won,’ he says. ‘Merkel is staying out until the last moment. Once BMW start laying off workers, she’ll be in there.’

No one is keener on resolving the Brexit impasse than the German car industry. One German job in seven depends on it, and Britain is one of its biggest markets. It is not just that Britain buys so many German cars, but that so many are made in the UK.

Dr Tobias Nickel is head of corporate communications for Draxlmaier, one of the world’s biggest makers of door panels and wiring harnesses for cars.

Among the company’s major clients is Jaguar Land Rover (JLR). Such is the advanced state of car design now that his company has just three days to build each bespoke panel for every new JLR car, and must then get it from Germany to the British factory within a precise four-hour window.

Miss that slot and you hold up an entire plant, with punitive results. The idea of 30-mile traffic jams at the Channel is the stuff of nightmares. He dreads a ‘no deal’>>

Brexit seems like a great idea then.

Sick Boy · Oct 13, 2018

Astute said:
Something needs doing ASAP if you say that the EU are not suddenly going to negotiate. Because there is no way we will accept a bad deal for the UK. Even you say we should have a vote on the deal.

The UK will accept a deal that's inevitably going to disappoint the more swivel-eyed.

Sick Boy · Oct 13, 2018

SIR ERNIE said:
Interesting. German industry getting pissed off with the EU zealots...

German bosses are sick of the Brussels bully boys, writes ROBERT HARDMAN | Daily Mail Online

A quote from a shelf maker I think it was? And another business owner, both companies employing under 1,500 people each?

It's a long way from what we originally led to believe, isn't it?

Astute · Oct 13, 2018

martcov said:
The EU aren’t playing game. The UK will be a third country and out off the EU regulatory area. It will have to make some sort of deal to keep passporting rights. Carney is putting in the Euro clearing system as a bargaining chip. The UK wants to leave but keep the benefits - that is called cherry picking. The EU has said it won’t happen. They may have to give up something on the euro clearing, but they want to get as much as they can out of it. They are letting Carney sweat and claim the businesses should amend their contracts accordingly and don’t need regulatory support. I don’t know who is right on that. If we remained none of this would be happening. Brexit is a joke.

So you are finally admitting that the EU says no cherry picking but they want to do so themselves?

Are you saying the UK is playing a game?

Then you wonder why there are millions of people in the UK that say a no deal could well be the best result.

Astute · Oct 13, 2018

Sick Boy said:
The UK will accept a deal that's inevitably going to disappoint the more swivel-eyed.

There are going to be millions unhappy whatever happens.

Captain Dart · Oct 13, 2018

skybluetony176 said:
Tell us all about Karoshi. Resident Japan expert.

I tried to understand it but it was too much like hard work.

Sick Boy · Oct 13, 2018

Astute said:
There are going to be millions unhappy whatever happens.

Yeah the country is going to be divided for years if not decades to come. At least the Tories will forever own this mess.

Astute · Oct 13, 2018

Sick Boy said:
A quote from a shelf maker I think it was? And another business owner, both companies employing under 1,500 people each?

It's a long way from what we originally led to believe, isn't it?

So companies that employ just under 1,500 people and export at least 20% to the UK don't matter and it won't make much difference. But for the UK it would be massive?

Mr Juncker is from Luxembourg, which is a country that does not have a large automotive industry,’ he says carefully. ‘In the automotive industry, we are not in the business of teaching other countries a lesson. We are in the business of making cars.’

I get the same no-nonsense message from business all over Europe. Take Claudio Calabresi, who runs his family textile business near Florence, making clothes for M&S, Ted Baker and others. Up to 40 per cent of his £25 million turnover goes to Britain. A bad Brexit would be very grim indeed.

As in Germany, he wishes Brexit wasn’t happening. But he is practical, too. He places the blame for the current situation equally on the British and EU politicians and wants calm.

‘It is a very confusing situation. From my point of view, the people shouldn’t be punished,’ he says. ‘We must respect the decision — it has come from the people, not the politicians. In fact, there is a feeling in Italy that if we could take a similar decision, many might go the same way.’

In Normandy, meanwhile, political and business leaders have warned President Macron that a no-deal Brexit would threaten the region’s economy.

Astute · Oct 13, 2018

Sick Boy said:
Yeah the country is going to be divided for years if not decades to come. At least the Tories will forever own this mess.

They will.

But there are two problems. 52% voted for it and Labour is led by Corbyn.

Sick Boy · Oct 13, 2018

Astute said:
So companies that employ just under 1,500 people and export at least 20% to the UK don't matter and it won't make much difference. But for the UK it would be massive?

Mr Juncker is from Luxembourg, which is a country that does not have a large automotive industry,’ he says carefully. ‘In the automotive industry, we are not in the business of teaching other countries a lesson. We are in the business of making cars.’

I get the same no-nonsense message from business all over Europe. Take Claudio Calabresi, who runs his family textile business near Florence, making clothes for M&S, Ted Baker and others. Up to 40 per cent of his £25 million turnover goes to Britain. A bad Brexit would be very grim indeed.

As in Germany, he wishes Brexit wasn’t happening. But he is practical, too. He places the blame for the current situation equally on the British and EU politicians and wants calm.

‘It is a very confusing situation. From my point of view, the people shouldn’t be punished,’ he says. ‘We must respect the decision — it has come from the people, not the politicians. In fact, there is a feeling in Italy that if we could take a similar decision, many might go the same way.’

In Normandy, meanwhile, political and business leaders have warned President Macron that a no-deal Brexit would threaten the region’s economy.

I didn't say any of your first 3 claims.

My point was that it's a long way from the German car industry and Italian wine industry insisting that the UK got what it wanted. As we've seen, they view the Single Market as more important than the UK, surprise surprise.

Sick Boy · Oct 13, 2018

Astute said:
They will.

But there are two problems. 52% voted for it and Labour is led by Corbyn.

52% of those who voted went for it.

Makes no difference who Labour is led by, it's still a mess created and put into action by the Tories.

martcov · Oct 13, 2018

Astute said:
So you are finally admitting that the EU says no cherry picking but they want to do so themselves?

Are you saying the UK is playing a game?

Then you wonder why there are millions of people in the UK that say a no deal could well be the best result.

No.

No.

Leavers no longer surprise me.

The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (9 Viewers)

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