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The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (17 Viewers)

  • Thread starter jimmyhillsfanclub
  • Start date Jun 8, 2016
Forums New posts

As of right now, how are thinking of voting? In or out

  • Remain

    Votes: 23 37.1%
  • Leave

    Votes: 35 56.5%
  • Undecided

    Votes: 3 4.8%
  • Not registered or not intention to vote

    Votes: 1 1.6%

  • Total voters
    62
  • Poll closed Jun 15, 2016.
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Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 5, 2018
  • #20,966
Sick Boy said:
If the trade agreement meant the UK remaining in the single market and customs union and agreeing to retain EU standards, you'd have a point. But the government has repeatedly said they would go against its red flags.
Click to expand...
Why does it?

A free trade agreement would cover most problems. The rest could be negotiated.

They say that freedom of movement is very important. So is staying in the SM. Add a bit more and we are fully in the EU without any say.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 5, 2018
  • #20,967
Sick Boy said:
Come on, he only speaks the truth. If you disagree with him you're simply wrong.
Click to expand...

Exactly. He has the thread back on Selmayr because he doesn’t want to end up at the dodgy referendum, which affects the UK far more than Selmayr. He is deathly silent on the possiblity of a Müller style investigation. Tom Watson has also pointed out the silence on the referendum when we are up in arms about Russian meddling in other things. Why? Why don’t people like Astute want to go down there? Still back to going round in circles about Selmayr, Juncker and fish....
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 5, 2018
  • #20,968
martcov said:
What are you on about? There are scandals in every organisation in the world. I would be surprised if there weren’t any in the EU. But you think that only the EU has scandals. You are, at best naive.
Click to expand...
Most scandals have to be uncovered. But those at the top of the EU are so brazen that they do it in full sight of everyone and then tell them so what. Just like you say to us.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 5, 2018
  • #20,969
Astute said:
Why does it?

A free trade agreement would cover most problems. The rest could be negotiated.

They say that freedom of movement is very important. So is staying in the SM. Add a bit more and we are fully in the EU without any say.
Click to expand...

Exactly. We have everything we want now, but we are leaving to suit people like yourself. That entails, according to May, leaving the SM, CU and, necessarily, losing our existing free trade deal. It is not rocket science and blaming it on Selmayr, Juncker and the EU is stupid.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 5, 2018
  • #20,970
martcov said:
You posted it... I asked you why?
Click to expand...
You said it didn't happen because Juncker said it didn't happen. I said I can prove it as it is on YouTube where he says it and can prove you wrong. So now you try twisting the truth.

How unusual.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 5, 2018
  • #20,971
martcov said:
You are mad. How can you prove me wrong if I agreed with you? And it wasn’t illegal... unless you can prove otherwise... which you admit is not possible
Click to expand...
So you twisting the truth makes it all OK?

Yet again I will remind you. There are no laws on how those at the top of the EU run it. No laws means no laws to break.

But there are ruless and regulations. And they broke them all.

Yet you try and make out it is OK as there were no laws to break.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 5, 2018
  • #20,972
Astute said:
Most scandals have to be uncovered. But those at the top of the EU are so brazen that they do it in full sight of everyone and then tell them so what. Just like you say to us.
Click to expand...

The referendum was done in daylight. The press, the Brexit bad boys and endless lies and propaganda supported in part with Banks‘ millions coming after his dealings in Russia. It stinks and Selmayr‘s appointment is irrelevant in comparison. Stop going on about it and diverting from the mess the UK is in.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 5, 2018
  • #20,973
Astute said:
So you twisting the truth makes it all OK?

Yet again I will remind you. There are no laws on how those at the top of the EU run it. No laws means no laws to break.

But there are ruless and regulations. And they broke them all.

Yet you try and make out it is OK as there were no laws to break.
Click to expand...

Jesus wept. I have not said it Is ok. I have said it will not be reversed because it is not illegal. Stop making things up. Referendum?
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 5, 2018
  • #20,974
Astute said:
You said it didn't happen because Juncker said it didn't happen. I said I can prove it as it is on YouTube where he says it and can prove you wrong. So now you try twisting the truth.

How unusual.
Click to expand...

I asked you why you posted that Juncker denied it?
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 5, 2018
  • #20,975
martcov said:
Exactly. He has the thread back on Selmayr because he doesn’t want to end up at the dodgy referendum, which affects the UK far more than Selmayr. He is deathly silent on the possiblity of a Müller style investigation. Tom Watson has also pointed out the silence on the referendum when we are up in arms about Russian meddling in other things. Why? Why don’t people like Astute want to go down there? Still back to going round in circles about Selmayr, Juncker and fish....
Click to expand...
More lies by Mart. What a surprise.

I have always said that if anyone in the UK does anything wrong it should be looked into. If it means prison then bye bye.

Mart would love this to happen as much as myself.

But when it comes to those who run the EU it is a different matter. I would like it to be resolved. Mart would like to see nothing happen. And he has argued the case for months
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 5, 2018
  • #20,976
martcov said:
Exactly. We have everything we want now, but we are leaving to suit people like yourself. That entails, according to May, leaving the SM, CU and, necessarily, losing our existing free trade deal. It is not rocket science and blaming it on Selmayr, Juncker and the EU is stupid.
Click to expand...
Saying I don't trust them because they are bent is saying what?

You making up excuses for them is you saying what?
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 5, 2018
  • #20,977
Astute said:
So you twisting the truth makes it all OK?

Yet again I will remind you. There are no laws on how those at the top of the EU run it. No laws means no laws to break.

But there are ruless and regulations. And they broke them all.

Yet you try and make out it is OK as there were no laws to break.
Click to expand...

4 points of maladministration were identified by the ombudsman. Not „all rules were broken“. Stick to the truth for once in your life. Referendum?
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 5, 2018
  • #20,978
martcov said:
I asked you why you posted that Juncker denied it?
Click to expand...
You said Juncker denied it. I called him a liar for denying it.

Can you see the difference?
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 5, 2018
  • #20,979
Astute said:
Saying I don't trust them because they are bent is saying what?

You making up excuses for them is you saying what?
Click to expand...

You ignore the big UK scandal and divert to what, in comparison, is peanuts. What excuses!
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 5, 2018
  • #20,980
martcov said:
4 points of maladministration were identified by the ombudsman. Not „all rules were broken“. Stick to the truth for once in your life. Referendum?
Click to expand...
Name a rule or regulation on the part of Selmayr getting the position that wasn't broke.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 5, 2018
  • #20,981
martcov said:
You ignore the big UK scandal and divert to what, in comparison, is peanuts. What excuses!
Click to expand...
Ah. So Selmayr getting control of the EU is now peanuts.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 5, 2018
  • #20,982
Astute said:
You said Juncker denied it. I called him a liar for denying it.

Can you see the difference?
Click to expand...

I said that in the Reuters link that you, yes you, posted, he denied it. I asked why you posted it?
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 5, 2018
  • #20,983
Astute said:
Ah. So Selmayr getting control of the EU is now peanuts.
Click to expand...

In comparison to a dodgy referendum changing the course of UK history, it certainly is.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 5, 2018
  • #20,984
Whatever the Brexit outcome, it will be bad news for the DUP | Edward Burke
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Oct 5, 2018
  • #20,985
Astute said:
Why does it?

A free trade agreement would cover most problems. The rest could be negotiated.

They say that freedom of movement is very important. So is staying in the SM. Add a bit more and we are fully in the EU without any say.
Click to expand...

The UK could sign-up to parity in terms of regulations without having freedom of movement but then the USA is going to be too keen on doing a trade deal then.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 5, 2018
  • #20,986
Astute said:
Name a rule or regulation on the part of Selmayr getting the position that wasn't broke.
Click to expand...

Not up to me. You said they are all broken. I am aware of cases of maladministration. You claim all rules are broken. Name them.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 5, 2018
  • #20,987
Sick Boy said:
The UK could sign-up to parity in terms of regulations without having freedom of movement but then the USA is going to be too keen on doing a trade deal then.
Click to expand...

Yes, and then they, Brexiters, come out with the vassal state argument. Basically they are finding it hard to take in, that whatever they do, it will be a worse deal than what we have now.
 
Reactions: Sick Boy
S

SkyblueBazza

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 5, 2018
  • #20,988
Astute said:
Most scandals have to be uncovered. But those at the top of the EU are so brazen that they do it in full sight of everyone and then tell them so what. Just like you say to us.
Click to expand...
Most scandals are learned from so the same mistakes can be avoided in the future.

Some organisations want it to be embedded in their culture & massage rules (without all that legal nonesense)...helps to edge closer to the overall goal EUSSG where democracy rules (Soviet style)

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 5, 2018
  • #20,989
SkyblueBazza said:
Most scandals are learned from so the same mistakes can be avoided in the future.

Some organisations want it to be embedded in their culture & massage rules (without all that legal nonesense)...helps to edge closer to the overall goal EUSSG where democracy rules (Soviet style)

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

You are really stupid.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 5, 2018
  • #20,990
martcov said:
If you know the answer to the problem, then send it to May, BoJo and RM. back to pre GFA borders and we can get on with the FTA. You’re wasted on here.
Click to expand...

Again you’ve missed my point. The return of a border as pre 98 has nothing to do with the Belfast agreement. If it happens then Northern Ireland can excercise it’s right to have a referendum to leave the uk if it so desires.
 

Captain Dart

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 5, 2018
  • #20,991
Astute said:
No. I have a problem with liars and people who twist the truth to try and make a point.
Click to expand...
I hate politicians too.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 6, 2018
  • #20,992
Grendel said:
Again you’ve missed my point. The return of a border as pre 98 has nothing to do with the Belfast agreement. If it happens then Northern Ireland can excercise it’s right to have a referendum to leave the uk if it so desires.
Click to expand...

One professor‘s analysis:
EU Law Analysis: The Return of the Border? Analysis of the Irish border provisions in the Brexit withdrawal agreement
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 6, 2018
  • #20,993
martcov said:
Not up to me. You said they are all broken. I am aware of cases of maladministration. You claim all rules are broken. Name them.
Click to expand...
So you can't name the rules and regulations not broke when Juncker put Selmayr in his position.

Do you really want me to put up the links again to show how bad it was so you can see yet again how many rules and regulations they broke?
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 6, 2018
  • #20,994
martcov said:
Yes, and then they, Brexiters, come out with the vassal state argument. Basically they are finding it hard to take in, that whatever they do, it will be a worse deal than what we have now.
Click to expand...
Oh yes your normal line.

So what do you know?

There is good about staying in the EU. Only an idiot would deny. There is good about leaving the EU. Only an idiot would deny.

The problem on here is the reasons for staying are hammered home. The reasons for there being a reason are denied and argued about.

Freedom of movement is a good thing. But it has its major problems. This is denied and fully blamed on others like Labour and the Tories. Yes they are to blame. But fully?

UK population at record high, with net migration the biggest driver

So how are we supposed to keep up with these numbers? This isn't racist as has been insinuated in the past. This isn't anti immigration as has been insinuated even recently. We had many years of our population going up by 400,000 or more consecutively. But some try to say that it makes no difference. We would have to build a small city each year just to keep up. We failed to do so. Now it is going to take many years to catch up.

I don't blame people for coming to the UK to enrich their lives. I would do the same if I lived in places like Romania.


Romanian is second most common non-British nationality in UK

We are not allowed to do anything about it either. No slowing the rate down while we try to catch up. Juncker most probably lost remain the win with his comments just before the referendum.

So how would they feel in Germany if their population had gone up at the rate ours has? Their population has remained steady. Yet they have the money and they have the land to build all over the place. Yes Mart. They did allow 1m to settle in one go. But our population has gone up constantly for over 20 years. Our population is fast catching up with that of Germany.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 6, 2018
  • #20,995
So Mart, the EU commission bared it's teeth at the way Juncker promoted Selmayr but ended up doing nothing. Do you think the commissioners were given something for letting it continue?

It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest. But you of course will know differently. It is all about jobs for the boys and family.

Any chance of your honest opinion?
 
S

SkyblueBazza

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 6, 2018
  • #20,996
"In haste to go Dutch, Unilever miscalculated concerns in Brexit-bound UK" - In haste to go Dutch, Unilever miscalculated concerns in Brexit-bound UK | Reuters

Maybe some are coming to different conclusions when they look at the detail of abandoning the UK

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 6, 2018
  • #20,997
SkyblueBazza said:
"In haste to go Dutch, Unilever miscalculated concerns in Brexit-bound UK" - In haste to go Dutch, Unilever miscalculated concerns in Brexit-bound UK | Reuters

Maybe some are coming to different conclusions when they look at the detail of abandoning the UK

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
This was a few days ago but had been going on for ages.

When Unilever said they were moving their headquarters to Holland it was because of Brexit. Now it isn't happening it was never about Brexit.

Many underestimate the power of London and financial services. If it had moved to Holland the share price would have dropped like a stone. Financial institutions in the UK would have been forced to sell as they have UK holdings.

But have kept away from this as it hasn't been brought up on here. And I only try and put everything into perspective whatever some on here say.
 
S

SkyblueBazza

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 6, 2018
  • #20,998
"Citi plans new UK bank as part of Brexit reorganisation" - Citi plans new UK bank as part of Brexit reorganisation | Reuters

And some are seeing opportunities or seeking to ptotect their business here

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 6, 2018
  • #20,999
SkyblueBazza said:
"Citi plans new UK bank as part of Brexit reorganisation" - Citi plans new UK bank as part of Brexit reorganisation | Reuters

And some are seeing opportunities or seeking to ptotect their business here

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Of course they are. Can you think of a reason why they would risk having to pull out of the UK if the EU made it too difficult for them?
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 6, 2018
  • #21,000
martcov said:
One professor‘s analysis:
EU Law Analysis: The Return of the Border? Analysis of the Irish border provisions in the Brexit withdrawal agreement
Click to expand...

Which again totally misses the point
 
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