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The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (14 Viewers)

  • Thread starter jimmyhillsfanclub
  • Start date Jun 8, 2016
Forums New posts

As of right now, how are thinking of voting? In or out

  • Remain

    Votes: 23 37.1%
  • Leave

    Votes: 35 56.5%
  • Undecided

    Votes: 3 4.8%
  • Not registered or not intention to vote

    Votes: 1 1.6%

  • Total voters
    62
  • Poll closed Jun 15, 2016.
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martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 4, 2018
  • #20,896
Astute said:
No. I have a problem with liars and people who twist the truth to try and make a point.
Click to expand...

Ffs. Twisting the truth and putting words in people’s mouths is your modus operandi.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 4, 2018
  • #20,897
martcov said:
I am not going to research that. I know what I said, and yes it is annoying. I am not rabid, so when I say annoying, a sham and a scam that is as hard as you will get.
Click to expand...
But you didn't call it a scam. It took long enough for you to call it annoying. You then made out that it is OK as no law was broke constantly. And the only reason for This is that there are rules and regulations that cover it but no laws cover it.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 4, 2018
  • #20,898
martcov said:
Ffs. Twisting the truth and putting words in people’s mouths is your modus operandi.
Click to expand...
Questioning what you say is putting words into your mouth? If you were being truthful there would be no words put into your mouth. That is the comment that you and a couple others use when caught out yet again.
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Oct 4, 2018
  • #20,899
Astute said:
Would you like to point out where I have blamed them?

This is typical of those on here desperate for us to stay in the EU. I explained clearly my thoughts. And have countless times. But you continue to try and twist everything I say.

Well done.
Click to expand...

You've repeatably tried to portray migration (probably EU migration) as a key factor in people being homeless in the UK.

I have't twisted anything that you've said, it's all stuff that you've come out with over the years.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 4, 2018
  • #20,900
Sick Boy said:
You've repeatably tried to portray migration (probably EU migration) as a key factor in people being homeless in the UK.

I have't twisted anything that you've said, it's all stuff that you've come out with over the years.
Click to expand...
And as I have constantly asked you has the population boom we have had for the last 20 years made any difference to homeless numbers?

If you say yes you are in agreement with me. If you say no then you are lying.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 4, 2018
  • #20,901
Astute said:
But you didn't call it a scam. It took long enough for you to call it annoying. You then made out that it is OK as no law was broke constantly. And the only reason for This is that there are rules and regulations that cover it but no laws cover it.
Click to expand...

Not true as usual. I didn’t say it was ok. I said it was a scam and annoying. I said it cannot be reversed as it was not illegal.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 4, 2018
  • #20,902
Meanwhile back in the real world Nissan becomes latest manufacturer to warn against hard Brexit
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Oct 4, 2018
  • #20,903
Astute said:
If you say yes you are in agreement with me. If you say no then you are lying.
Click to expand...

This is why it's pointless even trying to have a proper discussion with you.
 
Reactions: Grappa
G

Grappa

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 4, 2018
  • #20,904

lol, think I've come into contact with at least 8 of the 14.
 
Reactions: martcov, skybluetony176 and Sick Boy

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 4, 2018
  • #20,905
Grappa said:

lol, think I've come into contact with at least 8 of the 14.
Click to expand...

Can’t think who No.11 reminds me of. But I think he’s No.12 also.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 4, 2018
  • #20,906
martcov said:
Not true as usual. I didn’t say it was ok. I said it was a scam and annoying. I said it cannot be reversed as it was not illegal.
Click to expand...
Of course it can.

Juncker said he would resign his post if the position was taken away from Selmayr. Are you calling Juncker a liar?
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 4, 2018
  • #20,907
Sick Boy said:
This is why it's pointless even trying to have a proper discussion with you.
Click to expand...
Why is it?

I have said that past governments are mainly to blame for not allowing funds to be released to build social housing after the big sell off. It costs us billions a year to pay private rents to landlords who charge much more than social housing would cost.

But you always try to make out that our massive population boom has made no difference to the homeless situation. And you have the nerve to say it is me that it is a waste of time trying to have a debate with.
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 4, 2018
  • #20,908
Astute said:
So we should stay in the EU because they are trying to force us to stay in?
Click to expand...
They're not, these are issues the British government has not attempted to address instead being ridiculously cavalier arrogant Tory wankers.
 
Reactions: Sick Boy, skybluetony176 and Grappa

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 4, 2018
  • #20,909
skybluetony176 said:
Meanwhile back in the real world Nissan becomes latest manufacturer to warn against hard Brexit
Click to expand...
You are so funny.

Only an idiot couldn't see problems arising with no deal. And that is all over the EU.

But for some reason you only concentrate on one side. And ignore who it is who has the say if there is a deal or not.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 4, 2018
  • #20,910
fernandopartridge said:
They're not, these are issues the British government has not attempted to address instead being ridiculously cavalier arrogant Tory wankers.
Click to expand...
So why is it that several times they have said that the terms put forward are not good enough....But it isn't too late to stay in and nothing would be held against us?

It isn't just the Tories. They would be the same with anyone. They are not negotiating at all but tell us what they want to keep like fishing rights in our water.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 4, 2018
  • #20,911
Astute said:
You are so funny.

Only an idiot couldn't see problems arising with no deal. And that is all over the EU.

But for some reason you only concentrate on one side. And ignore who it is who has the say if there is a deal or not.
Click to expand...

The majority of posts over the last week or so have been about a no deal scenario. Have you only just noticed the problems arising.

Funnily enough the side I concentrate on is the side I call home. Not sure why you have a problem with that.
 
Last edited: Oct 4, 2018

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 4, 2018
  • #20,912
Astute said:
So why is it that several times they have said that the terms put forward are not good enough....But it isn't too late to stay in and nothing would be held against us?

It isn't just the Tories. They would be the same with anyone. They are not negotiating at all but tell us what they want to keep like fishing rights in our water.
Click to expand...

The terms are not compatible with the EU's core treaties and not workable. They've been consistent with that message for nearly 2 years but the cabbages in government have either not understood or deliberately ignored it.
The EU are looking out for their 27 members, particularly Ireland for whom a hard Brexit would be an economic disaster, this is why remain is still an option and why wouldn't it be?
I voted leave but not on the basis that it would not be of such a significant detriment, and, on the basis that the UK government had some sort of plan, I was wrong and naive.
 
Reactions: Sick Boy, martcov, Grappa and 1 other person
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 4, 2018
  • #20,913
Astute said:
Of course it can.

Juncker said he would resign his post if the position was taken away from Selmayr. Are you calling Juncker a liar?
Click to expand...

No. He said it. It didn’t mean that the law was ignored because he said it.
 

Alan Dugdales Moustache

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 4, 2018
  • #20,914
I think Junckers 88 has one of the most miserable faces I've ever seen. On that basis alone I would always vote leave to get away from such a depressing spectacle. Too many holidays in the sun I reckon, paid for by us. .
 
G

Grappa

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 4, 2018
  • #20,915
Alan Dugdales Moustache said:
I think Junckers 88 has one of the most miserable faces I've ever seen. On that basis alone I would always vote leave to get away from such a depressing spectacle. Too many holidays in the sun I reckon, paid for by us. .
Click to expand...

It's quite something that not liking Juncker's face is one of the less mental reasons for voting for brexit that I've heard.

Strange days.
 
Reactions: martcov and Sick Boy

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 5, 2018
  • #20,916
fernandopartridge said:
The terms are not compatible with the EU's core treaties and not workable. They've been consistent with that message for nearly 2 years but the cabbages in government have either not understood or deliberately ignored it.
The EU are looking out for their 27 members, particularly Ireland for whom a hard Brexit would be an economic disaster, this is why remain is still an option and why wouldn't it be?
I voted leave but not on the basis that it would not be of such a significant detriment, and, on the basis that the UK government had some sort of plan, I was wrong and naive.
Click to expand...
And there is my point.

If they wanted to make a deal from the start we wouldn't have had to solve the problem of Ireland before even having a chance to talk about a trade deal.

Being able to talk about which direction to consider with Ireland and having a free trade agreement goes hand in hand. Most of the problems that they say about would be removed if there was to be a free trade agreement. There would be much less talk of where a border would be. I was remain. I didn't even consider them being like they are.

They don't want us to leave the EU. They are doing what they can to force us to stay in the EU. They need our money. They need our trade. They need many things that our membership comes with. They have made it into project fear. Just like the Tories did to try and make us vote remain. I detest bullies and bullying. Have done all my life. And when you add to it how they say we have to keep to their rules and regulations but they break them themselves.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 5, 2018
  • #20,917
martcov said:
No. He said it. It didn’t mean that the law was ignored because he said it.
Click to expand...
For about the 50th time what was the law that could have been broke?

It is all rules and regulations. No laws exist.

The EU is all about rules and regulations.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 5, 2018
  • #20,918
Here we are again Mart. So explain why the scam as you now call it couldn't be reversed.

Juncker: If Martin Selmayr goes, I go

'If he goes, I go!' - Jean-Claude Juncker threatens to quit in row over 'monster' Eurocrat promotion

Selmayr's stealth promotion was wrong, EU watchdog says

Blackmail?

Selmayr case scars Parliament and Commission

And in Junckers own words he is the only person who could ask Selmayr to resign. And as it was Juncker who was the one who put the debacle together there is no chance of it happening

Macron, Merkel back Juncker's under-fire aide | Reuters
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 5, 2018
  • #20,919
Astute said:
And there is my point.

If they wanted to make a deal from the start we wouldn't have had to solve the problem of Ireland before even having a chance to talk about a trade deal.

Being able to talk about which direction to consider with Ireland and having a free trade agreement goes hand in hand. Most of the problems that they say about would be removed if there was to be a free trade agreement. There would be much less talk of where a border would be. I was remain. I didn't even consider them being like they are.

They don't want us to leave the EU. They are doing what they can to force us to stay in the EU. They need our money. They need our trade. They need many things that our membership comes with. They have made it into project fear. Just like the Tories did to try and make us vote remain. I detest bullies and bullying. Have done all my life. And when you add to it how they say we have to keep to their rules and regulations but they break them themselves.
Click to expand...

We have a free trade deal, SM and CU. That is the best situation you can get with any country/ bloc. We pay into the EU and accept the terms of the free trade deal.

Now we are leaving, don’t want to pay in and don’t want to accept the terms of the free trade deal.

So first of all we have to agree to pay what we signed up to during our membership, say what will happen to EU citizens living in the EU, and confirm that the Irish border will not be a hard border, as promised in the GFA.

We have automatically lost our free trade deal and will not get a comparable deal with what we now have. The EU would be stupid if they gave us that. The remaining 27 would say, what is the point of us sticking to the terms, if Britain can just pick and choose.

It is perfectly logical to get agreement on the 3 important points before discussing any deals.

They don’t break all their rules. You just made that up.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 5, 2018
  • #20,920
martcov said:
We have a free trade deal, SM and CU. That is the best situation you can get with any country/ bloc. We pay into the EU and accept the terms of the free trade deal.

Now we are leaving, don’t want to pay in and don’t want to accept the terms of the free trade deal.

So first of all we have to agree to pay what we signed up to during our membership, say what will happen to EU citizens living in the EU, and confirm that the Irish border will not be a hard border, as promised in the GFA.

We have automatically lost our free trade deal and will not get a comparable deal with what we now have. The EU would be stupid if they gave us that. The remaining 27 would say, what is the point of us sticking to the terms, if Britain can just pick and choose.

It is perfectly logical to get agreement on the 3 important points before discussing any deals.

They don’t break all their rules. You just made that up.
Click to expand...
Where have we said we are not willing to pay for what we agreed to?

So what rules were not broke on the appointment of Selmayr?

Juncker’s threat over Selmayr investigation is disrespectful - Sven Giegold - Mitglied der Grünen Fraktion im Europaparlament

So explain how we can sort out the Ireland problem without knowing about any trade agreement?
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 5, 2018
  • #20,921
Astute said:
Here we are again Mart. So explain why the scam as you now call it couldn't be reversed.

Juncker: If Martin Selmayr goes, I go

'If he goes, I go!' - Jean-Claude Juncker threatens to quit in row over 'monster' Eurocrat promotion

Selmayr's stealth promotion was wrong, EU watchdog says

Blackmail?

Selmayr case scars Parliament and Commission

And in Junckers own words he is the only person who could ask Selmayr to resign. And as it was Juncker who was the one who put the debacle together there is no chance of it happening

Macron, Merkel back Juncker's under-fire aide | Reuters
Click to expand...

In Juncker’s own words, he dismissed reports that he had threatened to resign. You have just posted that in the Reuter’s link. Do you read these things?

Macron and Merkel backed the appointment. 28:0 was the vote from the Commission for his appointment to Deputy, which allowed the sham, scam, annoying appointment to General Secretary.

Yea, it was a scam, sham, annoying appointment, but it was not illegal and Juncker won’t sack him, the enquiries won’t or can’t reverse the decision, and so he will maybe be there until he retires. He is 47, so we have between 13 and maximum 20 years to go. He is counted as being able to do his job, and so the appointment,although flawed, probably won’t be detrimental medium or long term.

As opposed to the flawed, advisory referendum which may result in the UK being out of the EU forever, a virtually definite short term pain followed probably by a long term pain, and I don’t see you clambering to get that reversed, or showing indignation at the electoral flaws and lies shown in the leave campaign.

Seems cheating, breaking electoral rules, which is a crime, and receiving money from an adversary to the UK is fine by you, but a dodgy, albeit legal, appointment of an able civil servant in an organisation that you are leaving, is the end of civilisation.
 
Reactions: skybluetony176 and Sick Boy

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Oct 5, 2018
  • #20,922
Astute said:
So explain how we can sort out the Ireland problem without knowing about any trade agreement?
Click to expand...

This really is like pulling teeth.

You have to be on the wind up most of the time, no one put themselves across as some sort of expert speaking the truth while showing such ignorance.

The UK needs to ensure that a hard border is avoided to maintain the GFA, to claim it can be sorted out once a free trade agreement has been reached is truly mind-bending stuff.
 
Last edited: Oct 5, 2018
Reactions: martcov
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 5, 2018
  • #20,923
Astute said:
For about the 50th time what was the law that could have been broke?

It is all rules and regulations. No laws exist.

The EU is all about rules and regulations.
Click to expand...

That means all rules and regulations are broken by all members on a daily basis? How does it function at all?
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 5, 2018
  • #20,924
Astute said:
For about the 50th time what was the law that could have been broke?

It is all rules and regulations. No laws exist.

The EU is all about rules and regulations.
Click to expand...

Quite, as in the UK:

Another defeat for the Electoral Commission - The Good Law Project
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 5, 2018
  • #20,925
Men with few qualifications 'most exposed to Brexit'
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 5, 2018
  • #20,926
Astute said:
Where have we said we are not willing to pay for what we agreed to?

So what rules were not broke on the appointment of Selmayr?

Juncker’s threat over Selmayr investigation is disrespectful - Sven Giegold - Mitglied der Grünen Fraktion im Europaparlament

So explain how we can sort out the Ireland problem without knowing about any trade agreement?
Click to expand...

The Ireland problem is control of the border with the EU. Nothing to do with trade agreements. We have to honour the GFA. It is a treaty registered with the UN. The framework of free trade, no border controls was provided by the EU. If we leave the EU, we automatically lose the framework. The EU, Ireland, Northern Ireland and ultimately in a dispute, the UN, will want to know how the UK proposes to honour the agreement. Without knowing what the UK proposes on this very important point, there is no point negotiating any deal.

Would like to know what your proposals would be, and btw, are you in favour of a Müeller style enquiry into the dodgy referendum? The EU had two for the relatively „minor“ appointment of Selmayr.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 5, 2018
  • #20,927
martcov said:
In Juncker’s own words, he dismissed reports that he had threatened to resign. You have just posted that in the Reuter’s link. Do you read these things?
Click to expand...
Now are you sure of it?

There is a long clip of over 10 minutes on YouTube where he says it. Do you want me to put it up to prove you wrong?

The bloke is a compulsive liar. He tried to say there was nothing wrong with the way he gave Selmayr the position. Even you know this is a lie.
 
Last edited: Oct 5, 2018

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 5, 2018
  • #20,928
Sick Boy said:
This really is like pulling teeth.

You have to be on the wind up most of the time, no one put themselves across as some sort of expert speaking the truth while showing such ignorance.

The UK needs to ensure that a hard border is avoided to maintain the GFA, to claim it can be sorted out once a free trade agreement has been reached is truly mind-bending stuff.
Click to expand...
Yes we do. But it doesn't mean that you and a few others should try to hide or deny the truth like you do
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 5, 2018
  • #20,929
martcov said:
That means all rules and regulations are broken by all members on a daily basis? How does it function at all?
Click to expand...
Twisting the truth again I see.

So Juncker doesn't break the rules. Juncker doesn't then come out with blackmail on saying he will quit if made to remove Selmayr?
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 5, 2018
  • #20,930
martcov said:
The Ireland problem is control of the border with the EU. Nothing to do with trade agreements. We have to honour the GFA. It is a treaty registered with the UN. The framework of free trade, no border controls was provided by the EU. If we leave the EU, we automatically lose the framework. The EU, Ireland, Northern Ireland and ultimately in a dispute, the UN, will want to know how the UK proposes to honour the agreement. Without knowing what the UK proposes on this very important point, there is no point negotiating any deal.

Would like to know what your proposals would be, and btw, are you in favour of a Müeller style enquiry into the dodgy referendum? The EU had two for the relatively „minor“ appointment of Selmayr.
Click to expand...
Why do you pretend to be thick to try and prove a point?

Are you saying that sorting out the border of Ireland wouldn't be a lot easier with a trade deal,
 
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