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The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (9 Viewers)

  • Thread starter jimmyhillsfanclub
  • Start date Jun 8, 2016
Forums New posts

As of right now, how are thinking of voting? In or out

  • Remain

    Votes: 23 37.1%
  • Leave

    Votes: 35 56.5%
  • Undecided

    Votes: 3 4.8%
  • Not registered or not intention to vote

    Votes: 1 1.6%

  • Total voters
    62
  • Poll closed Jun 15, 2016.
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SkyblueBazza

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 2, 2018
  • #20,756
skybluetony176 said:
Haven’t had chance to read them in detail and won’t until tomorrow now but after a quick scan I can already see some of its out of date especially regarding trade. For instance it’s been confirmed that India is more interested in doing a deal with the EU than us as apparently we’ve always been the stumbling block in EU/India trade negotiations as we’ve always vetoed the relaxation of Visas into the EU, something also confirmed by India that relaxation of the visa rules would have to be part of any post brexit U.K./India trade deal. Then there’s the bit about trade with the UAE. The EU was confirmed this year as the GCC’s biggest trading partner.

A lot has happened since 2017 and especially January 2017 (that’s fastly approaching 2 years). I would suggest that at first glance the articles you’ve linked are out of date. They also seem to be based again on largely rhetoric rather than anything tangible.
Click to expand...
Yeah well...I just chose the top 2 or 3 of sources I'd heard of given what I searched. Maybe you should delve into the positives for more recent stuff if you want them. I am as happy with thoughts as they stand as you seem with yours. We just beg to differ I guess

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 2, 2018
  • #20,757
Grendel said:
Like the sustained economic growth when the uk plunged into the ERM and interest rates climbed to 15%?
Click to expand...

That’s not true either. It was the year before that interest rates climbed to 15%. They dropped to 14% the month we joined and continued to fall to 7% when we left the ERM two years later.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 2, 2018
  • #20,758
Monners said:
If there was a plan by the leave campaign in place that demonstrated that the UK would have sustained and stable economic growth, then I would have voted for it. There wasn't and still isn't - why take the risk of leaping into the unknown? It makes no sense.
Click to expand...
It isn't the unknown that is the problem. It is what the EU is doing to try and force us to stay in the EU that is the problem.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 2, 2018
  • #20,759
skybluetony176 said:
That’s not true either. It was the year before that interest rates climbed to 15%. They dropped to 14% the month we joined and continued to fall to 7% when we left the ERM two years later.
Click to expand...

Interest rates rose by 5% in one day Tony - George Soros made a fortune on the long devaluation and we were at record interest rates
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 2, 2018
  • #20,760
SkyblueBazza said:
Yeah well...I just chose the top 2 or 3 of sources I'd heard of given what I searched. Maybe you should delve into the positives for more recent stuff if you want them. I am as happy with thoughts as they stand as you seem with yours. We just beg to differ I guess

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

I don’t specifically look for bad news brexit stories I just look for brexit stories. They just happen to be mainly bad. The only two tangible ones are cheaper citrus fruit as non EU produced citrus fruit is hit with a big tariff to favour EU grown produce and pigs ears. And the latter one depends on whether we decide to stop tagging livestock through one ear as per EU guidelines, which we may not do anyway as we’ve been tagging livestock for centuries. In fact we invented the practice (disclaimer. GCSE history before Grendull starts fact checking me on wiki and then claiming that I got it of wiki)
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 2, 2018
  • #20,761
Grendel said:
Interest rates rose by 5% in one day Tony - George Soros made a fortune on the long devaluation and we were at record interest rates
Click to expand...

I think you’re confusing it with when Maggie came into power and hiked interest rates to 17%. By choice.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 2, 2018
  • #20,762
skybluetony176 said:
I don’t specifically look for bad news brexit stories I just look for brexit stories. They just happen to be mainly bad. The only two tangible ones are cheaper citrus fruit as non EU produced citrus fruit is hit with a big tariff to favour EU grown produce and pigs ears. And the latter one depends on whether we decide to stop tagging livestock through one ear as per EU guidelines, which we may not do anyway as we’ve been tagging livestock for centuries. In fact we invented the practice (disclaimer. GCSE history before Grendull starts fact checking me on wiki and then claiming that I got it of wiki)
Click to expand...
That is because you only search pro EU outlets.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 2, 2018
  • #20,763
skybluetony176 said:
I think you’re confusing it with when Maggie came into power and hiked interest rates to 17%. By choice.
Click to expand...

Wiki man

How John Major and Norman Lamont hid the cost of the Black Wednesday disaster
 
S

SkyblueBazza

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 2, 2018
  • #20,764
skybluetony176 said:
I don’t specifically look for bad news brexit stories I just look for brexit stories. They just happen to be mainly bad. The only two tangible ones are cheaper citrus fruit as non EU produced citrus fruit is hit with a big tariff to favour EU grown produce and pigs ears. And the latter one depends on whether we decide to stop tagging livestock through one ear as per EU guidelines, which we may not do anyway as we’ve been tagging livestock for centuries. In fact we invented the practice (disclaimer. GCSE history before Grendull starts fact checking me on wiki and then claiming that I got it of wiki)
Click to expand...
Wonder why they are mainly bad? Media agenda? Get more readers, listeners & viewers? It is a business for them not just news

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clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 2, 2018
  • #20,765
SkyblueBazza said:
Wrong. There are consultants doing so...to prevent stroke in at risk pts. If the cause of stroke a is a clot...it is warfarin or similar anticoagulant that would be prescribed. The point is...experts given the same information reach different convlusions in many situations. Media agenda chooses which are given airtime where. I reckon that the coverage is largely scaremongering & speculation.
That said there is rightfully much concern out there because of the unknown moving forward. Some will win, some will lose - both sides of the channel. It will all balance out though.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

But you're not saying why it will balance out. I proved evidence to suggest it's going to be a fuck up. Show me something that's says it won't.

Trust me, I've looked and can find very little and what I've found from Johnson, mogg, fox and co is riddled with inaccuracies
 
Reactions: martcov

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Oct 2, 2018
  • #20,766
SkyblueBazza said:
As you & some others seem to like this approach...

Stop complaining about Brexit – the economic benefits will be huge | John Longworth

How the UK can benefit from a free trade future after Brexit – even outside the single market

Pros and cons of leaving the EU

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

The first two articles are from 2017, a fair bit has changed since then and no one is now saying we will get a trade deal because German car manufacturers will be put pressure on the EU and make it give in to the UK's demands.
 
Reactions: martcov

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Oct 2, 2018
  • #20,767
Astute said:
It isn't the unknown that is the problem. It is what the EU is doing to try and force us to stay in the EU that is the problem.
Click to expand...

No it's not, it's only just dawning on some of what it'll be like for the UK to be a 3rd country.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 2, 2018
  • #20,768
Astute said:
Nothing to do with rules changing?
Click to expand...

no.
 
M

Monners

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 2, 2018
  • #20,769
Astute said:
It isn't the unknown that is the problem. It is what the EU is doing to try and force us to stay in the EU that is the problem.
Click to expand...
I don't see that at all, but like I say, I don't consider myself to be bias
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 2, 2018
  • #20,770
SkyblueBazza said:
Wonder why they are mainly bad? Media agenda? Get more readers, listeners & viewers? It is a business for them not just news

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Because the majority of people in Europe, in business, who have something to with supply chains or movement of goods in or out of the UK, think that Brexit is a bad idea.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 2, 2018
  • #20,771
Astute said:
That is because you only search pro EU outlets.
Click to expand...

Oh god....
 
M

Monners

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 2, 2018
  • #20,772
Grendel said:
Like the sustained economic growth when the uk plunged into the ERM and interest rates climbed to 15%?
Click to expand...
Yep - poor (or no) planning. Thatcher's dogma carried on by Major - and a clueless Chancellor.

Deregulation of the banks also - carried on by Labour.

Council house sell off - great vote winner, but not replacing the housing stock is hardly sustainable planning

Global banking crisis etc,,

People (and countries) spending borrowed money - with no planning

Short termism of the political cycle, UK, EU, Global is the issue for me. - long term sustainable planning (god I love that word) - whether in r out of the EU is surely the way forward. WIll never happen though
 
Last edited: Oct 2, 2018
Reactions: Astute

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 2, 2018
  • #20,773
Where’s Tony gone?
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 2, 2018
  • #20,774
Monners said:
Yep - poor (or no planning).
Click to expand...

No entirely down to EU strategy
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 2, 2018
  • #20,775
Astute said:
Goodbye.

So there is you not in the UK. Mart in Germany. SB moving to Italy and Tony who voted UKIP.

I get the 3 of you and why you are so biased. But not Tony who voted UKIP. And UKIP as we all know were about one thing. Leaving the EU.
Click to expand...

I'm not biased. I see that Brexit is looking like a fuck up, and the crap about USSR, 1066 and Brit Dunkirk spirit at the Conservative conference, confirmed once again that Brexit is a fuck up. We don't need the Dunkirk spirit if we are going some place better than where we are. We don't need to annoy the people we are negotiating with if we have a good hand. They have to come to us. I think insulting the people who hold a veto on any trade deal is a futile attempt to save face as we lunge out of the EU. It won't help, but I think the Tories know we are out on our arse and are whipping up their base against the EU, ready to blame Brexit on the EU.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 2, 2018
  • #20,776
Grendel said:
No entirely down to EU strategy
Click to expand...

Yes, of course, the EU is to blame. Like it is for infrastructure, failings of the NHS, lack of affordable housing, underfunded schools, people talking in foreign languages in the street, in fact for everything. Brilliant. Leave the EU and everything will be fixed..... er no..... deregulation, scrap worker's rights guaranteed by the EU, increase the gig economy, drop any EU tax evasion rules, drop all tariffs and port controls on goods from emerging markets, let the US agricultural products in without pesky rules and sell off the NHS. And you will all live happily ever after. I will enjoy coming over for holidays and to watch the city with my nice Euros, and benefit from the falling pound. Win win.
 
Reactions: Grappa
M

Monners

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 2, 2018
  • #20,777
Grendel said:
No entirely down to EU strategy
Click to expand...
I disagree
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 2, 2018
  • #20,778
martcov said:
Yes, of course, the EU is to blame. Like it is for infrastructure, failings of the NHS, lack of affordable housing, underfunded schools, people talking in foreign languages in the street, in fact for everything. Brilliant. Leave the EU and everything will be fixed..... er no..... deregulation, scrap worker's rights guaranteed by the EU, increase the gig economy, drop any EU tax evasion rules, drop all tariffs and port controls on goods from emerging markets, let the US agricultural products in without pesky rules and sell off the NHS. And you will all live happily ever after. I will enjoy coming over for holidays and to watch the city with my nice Euros, and benefit from the falling pound. Win win.
Click to expand...

So the run ok the pound wasn’t to do with the ERM?

In one day people were contemplating chucking their keys to their homes as interest rates ran out of control.

On the same day a vile currency speculator made a fortune out of British people’s misery. A certain someone who hold in high regard.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 2, 2018
  • #20,779
Monners said:
I disagree
Click to expand...

If we’d stayed in the ERM would mortgage prices have increased by a third in one day?
 
M

Monners

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 2, 2018
  • #20,780
Grendel said:
So the run ok the pound wasn’t to do with the ERM?

In one day people were contemplating chucking their keys to their homes as interest rates ran out of control.

On the same day a vile currency speculator made a fortune out of British people’s misery. A certain someone who hold in high regard.
Click to expand...
People were chucking their keys in when Thatcher was looking after those with savings with increased interest rates month by month - remember it well when I bought my first house as a 21 year old back in 1987. Not sure how I managed to be honest - dark days for a young lad on his own.

Anyway, I just remembered that I dislike you because of your persistent ignorance and rudeness - and in a long term and sustainable way
 
Reactions: Grappa and martcov

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 2, 2018
  • #20,781
Monners said:
People were chucking their keys in when Thatcher was looking after those with savings with increased interest rates month by month - remember it well when I bought my first house as a 21 year old back in 1987. Not sure how I managed to be honest - dark days for a young lad on his own.

Anyway, I just remembered that I dislike you because of your persistent ignorance and rudeness - and in a long term and sustainable way
Click to expand...

In other words you haven’t a clue about the ERM
 
M

Monners

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 2, 2018
  • #20,782
Grendel said:
In other words you haven’t a clue about the ERM
Click to expand...
I rest my case
 
S

SkyblueBazza

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 2, 2018
  • #20,783
clint van damme said:
But you're not saying why it will balance out. I proved evidence to suggest it's going to be a fuck up. Show me something that's says it won't.

Trust me, I've looked and can find very little and what I've found from Johnson, mogg, fox and co is riddled with inaccuracies
Click to expand...

Tbh I think we are all pointlessly discussing pros & cons either way. We have all become entrenched from whatever our stance was 3months post referendum - & there is now no shifting us.

All those names you throw in...whilst some of their rantings strike a chord, most of what they say carries little sway...& equally some stuff that remain advocates say still strike a chord too, but at the end of the day - they are all looking from their own selfish (as-in opinion formed) perspective for their own career, financial or social gain. They might tell me what is best for me, but I believe it is my responsibility to decide what is actually best for me & mine...then i have only myself to blame or congratulate depending on the outcome

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S

SkyblueBazza

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 2, 2018
  • #20,784
True to form imo...

"Beyond the rhetoric, Britain and EU preparing to move on Brexit" - Beyond the rhetoric, Britain and EU preparing to move on Brexit | Reuters

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S

SkyblueBazza

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 2, 2018
  • #20,785
And those words "bully" & "threats" I have been criticised for before are being used by negotiators & leaders of these "Soverign Nation" members of the EU...

"Defiant Italy says no turning back on budget despite EU 'threats'" - Defiant Italy says no turning back on budget despite EU 'threats' | Reuters

"'Don't bully us', Britain takes new combative tone to Brexit talks" - 'Don't bully us', Britain takes new combative tone to Brexit talks | Reuters

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skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 2, 2018
  • #20,786
Grendel said:
Wiki man

How John Major and Norman Lamont hid the cost of the Black Wednesday disaster
Click to expand...

That was crashing out. You said plunging in. Two completely different things.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 2, 2018
  • #20,787
Astute said:
That is because you only search pro EU outlets.
Click to expand...

I search the subject not the outlets. Feel free to post links to the pro brexit outlets good news stories if you can find them. You won’t, find any, or rarely. I know because I look on a daily basis. Probably why I just don’t repeat meaningless rhetoric on a daily basis.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 2, 2018
  • #20,788
Monners said:
I rest my case
Click to expand...

What was the key driver and impact behind the interest rate explosion then?
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 2, 2018
  • #20,789
SkyblueBazza said:
Wonder why they are mainly bad? Media agenda? Get more readers, listeners & viewers? It is a business for them not just news

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

For your theory to me true the media would surely be pandering to the leave camp. Given that was the majority. Maybe it’s just the cold hard of reality of Brexit and now all the fuzzy logos have gone people are focusing on the reality.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 2, 2018
  • #20,790
skybluetony176 said:
That was crashing out. You said plunging in. Two completely different things.
Click to expand...

When did we leave Tony?
 
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