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The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (22 Viewers)

  • Thread starter jimmyhillsfanclub
  • Start date Jun 8, 2016
Forums New posts

As of right now, how are thinking of voting? In or out

  • Remain

    Votes: 23 37.1%
  • Leave

    Votes: 35 56.5%
  • Undecided

    Votes: 3 4.8%
  • Not registered or not intention to vote

    Votes: 1 1.6%

  • Total voters
    62
  • Poll closed Jun 15, 2016.
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Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 2, 2018
  • #20,686
martcov said:
No. We should stay in the EU because leaving will not bring us more benefits than we have by remaining.
Click to expand...
That is your view.

Leaving means at the start some things will be worse. There us no doubt here. But long term it will be better.

I was the same as you to start with. But now through Brexit I have found out what the EU is like. Short term pain for long term gain. And not to be run by a crooked institution.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 2, 2018
  • #20,687
Sick Boy said:
Are you on the wind up again?
Click to expand...
How about explaining instead of making comments like this?

Of course you can't as you know I am right.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 2, 2018
  • #20,688
Astute said:
Those under 18 are not counted anymore. They either have to have a job or continue in education. And many others don't count that would love to work. It is what is known as massaging the figures.

Just like if either the wife or I wasn't working. Neither would be counted as unemployed as the other earns enough for us not to be counted as we would still earn too much to be on benefits.
Click to expand...

Unemployment - Office for National Statistics
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 2, 2018
  • #20,689
Astute said:
That is your view.

Leaving means at the start some things will be worse. There us no doubt here. But long term it will be better.

I was the same as you to start with. But now through Brexit I have found out what the EU is like. Short term pain for long term gain. And not to be run by a crooked institution.
Click to expand...

Crooked organisation? Are you following the Conservative conference? The lies, the calls to emotions to cover the failures? And you are worried about the EU?
 
Reactions: skybluetony176 and Sick Boy

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Oct 2, 2018
  • #20,690
Astute said:
How about explaining instead of making comments like this?

Of course you can't as you know I am right.
Click to expand...

As the EU has said, it won't allow the UK to cherry pick the bits it likes and doesn't like about the Single Market.

I know this will come as a shock to you as you claimed that as the UK buys German cars, Italian wine, French cheese etc and the EU needs us more then we need them, that these industries would put pressure on and lead to the EU caving in.

Surprise surprise though it hasn't happened and was never going to.
 
Reactions: skybluetony176 and martcov
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 2, 2018
  • #20,691
Astute said:
That is your view.

Leaving means at the start some things will be worse. There us no doubt here. But long term it will be better.

I was the same as you to start with. But now through Brexit I have found out what the EU is like. Short term pain for long term gain. And not to be run by a crooked institution.
Click to expand...

The long term gain is just what you have been told. Rees Mogg says in 50 years the UK will be booming.

I won’t be here so I won’t be able to compare notes. A bit like religion telling you things will be better in heaven when you die.

I prefer sticking to what I know, one of the top G7 economies, SM, CU and trade deals throughout the world through the EU.... as opposed to short term pain whatever happens and, maybe, or maybe not, prosperity at some future indeterminate time.
 
Reactions: skybluetony176 and Sick Boy

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Oct 2, 2018
  • #20,692
Astute said:
That is your view.

Leaving means at the start some things will be worse. There us no doubt here. But long term it will be better.

I was the same as you to start with. But now through Brexit I have found out what the EU is like. Short term pain for long term gain. And not to be run by a crooked institution.
Click to expand...

How will it be better in the long-term? What will be better? What is this based on?
 
Reactions: martcov
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 2, 2018
  • #20,693
Sick Boy said:
How will it be better in the long-term? What will be better? What is this based on?
Click to expand...

He will dodge the question and come out with Juncker, Selmayr or fish....
 
Reactions: Sick Boy

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 2, 2018
  • #20,694
Astute said:
If you didn't search the net for the most anti Brexit articles all the time or twist anything that was anti EU it would be worth reading the countless links.

Not bad from someone who says those who voted leave are clueless when you voted UKIP.
Click to expand...

You didn’t read it then. Thanks for the confirmation. I look for news stories on brexit. The fact that they all seem to be negative is hardly my fault. For reference it was me who originally posted the stories about cheaper citrus fruit as a result of brexit and possibly selling more pigs ears to China because of Brexit. Pretty much the only two positive stories I’ve been able to find. Again not my fault.

If you can find some positive stories about brexit then feel free to post them up and we can discuss them.
 
Reactions: martcov

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 2, 2018
  • #20,695
Astute said:
Would you like to explain?

Are you stating as a fact that the EU couldn't do a deal that would benefit both sides if they wanted to?

Of course you are not.

This has nothing to do with any plan or any Tory. And you know it.
Click to expand...

May was on the news again this morning asking the EU to tell us what Brexit should look like. And there was me thinking that we had voted leave to take back control.
 
A

Ashdown

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 2, 2018
  • #20,696
If we can firm up our borders and control immigration better, then that will be a big improvement for a start. We need skilled, non criminal, checked workers who can add to the quality of life here not diminish it. There may be a positive impact on wages for people already in the UK if we can stop the flood of unskilled minimum wage types coming from Eastern Europe.

Everyone just talks about economic impact but 250,000 extra people a year is putting ridiculous strain on transport, hospitals, welfare and care services and schools etc. Not to mention housing stocks, rental costs, water supply, criminal activity/policing, potential terrorism surveillance, pollution and the environmental impact.

It doesn't help of course that any economic benefit from these extra bodies seems to be swallowed up into the same channels of the super rich and public funding for everything is continually cut.
 
Reactions: Astute

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 2, 2018
  • #20,697
Astute said:
We also have some area of high unemployment where people struggle to get work. I would love him to tell them that we have full employment.
Click to expand...

They could always do what the EU migrants do. Move to where the work is. You would have thought that the government would offer help to do this, especially post brexit. Can’t say I’ve heard them suggest that ever.
 
Reactions: martcov

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 2, 2018
  • #20,698
Astute said:
Ah. So I am supposed to only say about pro EU stuff like yourself.
Click to expand...

No. You’re supposed to say about pro Brexit stuff. You’ve the one who thinks it’s a good idea, why don’t you at least try to educate those of us who don’t?
 

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 2, 2018
  • #20,699
SkyblueBazza said:
Aspirin: low dose to prevent heart attacks and stroke - NHS.UK

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

to be honest when I was thinking of expert I was thinking more of a consultant than a general website but I suppose that's open to debate.

I'd would still rather listen to an expert than to Michael Gove, or the ridiculous 'Dr' Liam fox or any of their other cronies.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 2, 2018
  • #20,700
Sick Boy said:
Are you on the wind up again?
Click to expand...

I don’t think he is. I really think he doesn’t understand brexit.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 2, 2018
  • #20,701
Astute said:
That is your view.

Leaving means at the start some things will be worse. There us no doubt here. But long term it will be better.

I was the same as you to start with. But now through Brexit I have found out what the EU is like. Short term pain for long term gain. And not to be run by a crooked institution.
Click to expand...

Why will it be better long term? It isn’t going to happen just because you keep repeating it. Where’s your logical answer for that.

Do we have to go through the crooked institution crap again? As pointed out to you last week with numerous links our domestic institutions are equally as crooked if not worse. We will still be run by a crooked institution, the darlings of brexit will see to that.
 

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 2, 2018
  • #20,702
Astute said:
That is your view.

Leaving means at the start some things will be worse. There us no doubt here. But long term it will be better.

I was the same as you to start with. But now through Brexit I have found out what the EU is like. Short term pain for long term gain. And not to be run by a crooked institution.
Click to expand...

why will it be better long term? Convince me.
 
Reactions: Sick Boy

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Oct 2, 2018
  • #20,703
Ashdown said:
If we can firm up our borders and control immigration better, then that will be a big improvement for a start. We need skilled, non criminal, checked workers who can add to the quality of life here not diminish it. There may be a positive impact on wages for people already in the UK if we can stop the flood of unskilled minimum wage types coming from Eastern Europe.

Everyone just talks about economic impact but 250,000 extra people a year is putting ridiculous strain on transport, hospitals, welfare and care services and schools etc. Not to mention housing stocks, rental costs, water supply, criminal activity/policing, potential terrorism surveillance, pollution and the environmental impact.

It doesn't help of course that any economic benefit from these extra bodies seems to be swallowed up into the same channels of the super rich and public funding for everything is continually cut.
Click to expand...

The UK will ideally still have an open border with an EU country. A lot of EU migrants come here are actually skilled workers.
 
Reactions: martcov
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 2, 2018
  • #20,704
Ashdown said:
If we can firm up our borders and control immigration better, then that will be a big improvement for a start. We need skilled, non criminal, checked workers who can add to the quality of life here not diminish it. There may be a positive impact on wages for people already in the UK if we can stop the flood of unskilled minimum wage types coming from Eastern Europe.

Everyone just talks about economic impact but 250,000 extra people a year is putting ridiculous strain on transport, hospitals, welfare and care services and schools etc. Not to mention housing stocks, rental costs, water supply, criminal activity/policing, potential terrorism surveillance, pollution and the environmental impact.

It doesn't help of course that any economic benefit from these extra bodies seems to be swallowed up into the same channels of the super rich and public funding for everything is continually cut.
Click to expand...

We could firm up our borders by invoking the 3 month rule as do Belgium and other EU countries. We were amongst the first to let in the Romanians and Bulgarians. That was a UK choice. Germany didn’t because of the poor German labour market at the time. UK choice not EU dictat.

If you now remove 3 million EU workers the UK would collapse.

I agree that with the extra migrants paying more in and taking less out, that the question must be asked as to why austerity measures lasted so long? Why aren’t the government or local governments building affordable housing? Why is the infrastructure not being improved? Don’t parrot that it is the EU‘s fault. It isn’t. We are a sovereign nation and don’t rely on EU dictats to tell us to repair infrastructure or build housing.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 2, 2018
  • #20,705
Captain Dart said:
1.4M, ONS has stats on loads of stuff.
UK labour market - Office for National Statistics

German unemployment runs about 3,.4%, UK currently 4.0%
Click to expand...

Germany is 5,3% according to the Germans. I believe them.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 2, 2018
  • #20,706
martcov said:
Crooked organisation? Are you following the Conservative conference? The lies, the calls to emotions to cover the failures? And you are worried about the EU?
Click to expand...
The difference is those at the top of the EU don't get voted in by us. Those like Selmayr don't even get voted in when the position should have someone voted in. We have the right to vote the Tories out.

But this doesn't go with your pro EU propaganda.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 2, 2018
  • #20,707
Sick Boy said:
As the EU has said, it won't allow the UK to cherry pick the bits it likes and doesn't like about the Single Market.

I know this will come as a shock to you as you claimed that as the UK buys German cars, Italian wine, French cheese etc and the EU needs us more then we need them, that these industries would put pressure on and lead to the EU caving in.

Surprise surprise though it hasn't happened and was never going to.
Click to expand...
Oh what a shock. Twisted words and question not answered.

Could the EU negotiate if they wanted to?

Could the EU come out with a trade deal if they wanted to?

Are they taking this stance to try and force us to stay in?
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 2, 2018
  • #20,708
martcov said:
The long term gain is just what you have been told. Rees Mogg says in 50 years the UK will be booming.

I won’t be here so I won’t be able to compare notes. A bit like religion telling you things will be better in heaven when you die.

I prefer sticking to what I know, one of the top G7 economies, SM, CU and trade deals throughout the world through the EU.... as opposed to short term pain whatever happens and, maybe, or maybe not, prosperity at some future indeterminate time.
Click to expand...
So RM is a twat and anyone is an idiot for listening to him......unless he says something you like.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 2, 2018
  • #20,709
Sick Boy said:
How will it be better in the long-term? What will be better? What is this based on?
Click to expand...
Taking back control and not letting unvoted people decide our destiny when they don't care what happens here.

Don't worry. You will be in Italy soon. Everything will be good as the EU is brilliant.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 2, 2018
  • #20,710
martcov said:
He will dodge the question and come out with Juncker, Selmayr or fish....
Click to expand...
And you will ignore everything bad about the EU and say we must stay in whatever the consequences.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 2, 2018
  • #20,711
skybluetony176 said:
No. You’re supposed to say about pro Brexit stuff. You’ve the one who thinks it’s a good idea, why don’t you at least try to educate those of us who don’t?
Click to expand...
More lies.

So I have never said there is good and bad about leaving? And I have never said it would be better for my plans when I retire if we stay in?

Of course not. You only read the parts you don't like and the few of you join in on an attack.

The one who lives in Germany. The one who is moving to Italy and the one who voted UKIP.

I can understand why Mart and SB are desperate for us to stay in the EU. But you who voted UKIP?
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Oct 2, 2018
  • #20,712
Astute said:
Oh what a shock. Twisted words and question not answered.

Could the EU negotiate if they wanted to?

Could the EU come out with a trade deal if they wanted to?

Are they taking this stance to try and force us to stay in?
Click to expand...

No they're not they're acting in its best interest, as it's entitled to do.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 2, 2018
  • #20,713
Astute said:
More lies.

So I have never said there is good and bad about leaving? And I have never said it would be better for my plans when I retire if we stay in?

Of course not. You only read the parts you don't like and the few of you join in on an attack.

The one who lives in Germany. The one who is moving to Italy and the one who voted UKIP.

I can understand why Mart and SB are desperate for us to stay in the EU. But you who voted UKIP?
Click to expand...

You have no valid positive leave news then as suspected. Thank you for the confirmation.
 
Reactions: martcov and Sick Boy

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Oct 2, 2018
  • #20,714
Astute said:
More lies.

So I have never said there is good and bad about leaving? And I have never said it would be better for my plans when I retire if we stay in?

Of course not. You only read the parts you don't like and the few of you join in on an attack.

The one who lives in Germany. The one who is moving to Italy and the one who voted UKIP.

I can understand why Mart and SB are desperate for us to stay in the EU. But you who voted UKIP?
Click to expand...

I'm not desperate but I genuinely believe it will be bad in the long term. You've said it will be better in the long run but have failed to tell us how
 
Reactions: martcov

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Oct 2, 2018
  • #20,715
Astute said:
Taking back control and not letting unvoted people decide our destiny when they don't care what happens here.

Don't worry. You will be in Italy soon. Everything will be good as the EU is brilliant.
Click to expand...

Haha just parroting empty slogans, as usual.
 
Reactions: skybluetony176 and martcov
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 2, 2018
  • #20,716
Astute said:
The difference is those at the top of the EU don't get voted in by us. Those like Selmayr don't even get voted in when the position should have someone voted in. We have the right to vote the Tories out.

But this doesn't go with your pro EU propaganda.
Click to expand...

What difference? When are you going to tell us who the head of Whitehall is? How he was selected, by whom he was selected and what democratic influence we have on his selection? How do we vote him out?

We have the right to vote MEPs out, but not civil servants- exactly the same as in the UK.

Now convince me of the benefit of the UK appointments of civil servants as opposed to the EU appointments?
 
Reactions: skybluetony176
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 2, 2018
  • #20,717
Astute said:
More lies.

So I have never said there is good and bad about leaving? And I have never said it would be better for my plans when I retire if we stay in?

Of course not. You only read the parts you don't like and the few of you join in on an attack.

The one who lives in Germany. The one who is moving to Italy and the one who voted UKIP.

I can understand why Mart and SB are desperate for us to stay in the EU. But you who voted UKIP?
Click to expand...

I’ll help, by starting your post about benefits off for you.

Hi Mart, SB, and Tony,

The measurable benefits of Brexit are:
 
G

Grappa

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 2, 2018
  • #20,718
 
Reactions: chiefdave and Sick Boy

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 2, 2018
  • #20,719
Sick Boy said:
No they're not they're acting in its best interest, as it's entitled to do.
Click to expand...
Yet you don't want the UK to act in their best interests?

Cameron wanted a meeting to see what could be done to help with the problems we were having. Juncker said no and let the UK know right before the Brexit vote.

Yeah top thinking.

They could still negotiate and say what they want and what they would allow. But we don't even get that.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 2, 2018
  • #20,720
Sick Boy said:
I'm not desperate but I genuinely believe it will be bad in the long term. You've said it will be better in the long run but have failed to tell us how
Click to expand...
Taking back control.

Deciding how many people can live in the UK while we try to catch up with the previous government ineptitudes.

Do checks on who comes here instead of an EU passport becoming a right to be here.

Being able to make our own trade deals.

Not being forced into rules and regulations that Germany constantly ignore but we are not allowed to.

That is for starters.

Yes there are many good things to stay in the EU for. But these seem to be the only ones that count and the good on leaving is never right to some.
 
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