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The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (9 Viewers)

  • Thread starter jimmyhillsfanclub
  • Start date Jun 8, 2016
Forums New posts

As of right now, how are thinking of voting? In or out

  • Remain

    Votes: 23 37.1%
  • Leave

    Votes: 35 56.5%
  • Undecided

    Votes: 3 4.8%
  • Not registered or not intention to vote

    Votes: 1 1.6%

  • Total voters
    62
  • Poll closed Jun 15, 2016.
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M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 27, 2018
  • #20,406
Otis said:
I think it might be a good idea to have a second referendum.

What does everyone think about that?
Click to expand...

Stand back and light the blue touch paper...
 
Reactions: Otis
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 27, 2018
  • #20,407
SkyblueBazza said:
It is completely irrelevant to the point both I & indeed La Maire was making.

It was virtually saying that regardless of whether peole want to leave. To survive - the EU must send the message that there will be grave consequences for you as a nation.

Now to me that is disregarding any hard-Brexit/no-deal impact on their own EU citizens who have jobs that depend on exports to Britain, or indeed exports, in favour of pursuing the EU dream of political, financial & econ...lets face it - modern day Greater-German empire!

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

„Greater German Empire“? Mad as a hatter.

Le maire also said everyone wants a good deal and said Chequers was a move in the right direction and praised May‘s courage.

Some people are just too thick to comprehend statements.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 27, 2018
  • #20,408
covmark said:
No thanks. But can we just make our decisions via The Clapometer on Robert Pestons new show. It would make life easier.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

We virtually did that once. The papers and liars put on a great show and the Brexit act, starring BoJo, Farage, Gove and Rees Mogg won.

We are now asking for a serious, but boring, vote based on facts. You probably won’t be interested.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 27, 2018
  • #20,409
Astute said:
Would you like to explain to me what RM has to do with the process?

So are you saying that all regulations will be dropped?
Click to expand...

Here is the opposite viewpoint to Rees Mogg:

„Competitiveness is often confused with one-sided social regression but competitiveness is not achieved through social regression. Competitiveness is achieved by developing a broad range of approaches. Competitiveness is essential to make the European Union a more attractive location. A location for people, for investors.

This includes the principle that the economy has to serve the people and not the other way round. The economy must serve the people.

This means that internal market provisions cannot be valued more highly than social provisions, which would otherwise just be minimum standards. The internal market does not automatically have priority; social factors must also play a role in Europe.

I am an enthusiastic supporter of the social market economy. 'Prosperity for all' was what Ludwig Erhardt said. Not 'prosperity for just a few'. 'Prosperity for all' must be the maxim followed in both economic and social policies alike. In view of the crisis, people often say that the social market economy has failed. It is not the social market economy which has failed but those who, out of greed for profit, for money and for easy money, have disregarded the cardinal virtues of the social market economy.“

Prosperity for all? You won’t be getting that post Brexit. Deregulation and lower taxes for businesses will lead to a Trump style pocket what you can economy. You won’t find such quotes ( see above ) in Rees Mogg speeches.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 27, 2018
  • #20,410
Astute said:
Thanks for the lie.

More like those in the UK get prosecuted. Those in the EU get a top job, lots of money and a massive pension. And we help to pay for it.
Click to expand...

An example?

And... just to cheer you up:

Race is on to be EU’s first ambassador to London
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 27, 2018
  • #20,411
clint van damme said:
I'm not sure it's true to say JLR have been moving out of the UK for years because I think theyll maintain a strong UK presence. They certainly had the Slovakian factory signed off long before the referendum so that can't be pinned on Brexit.
But JLR plants are just in time and I expect huge problems in JIT supply chains if we leave with no deal.
Click to expand...
[/QUOTE]
They kept to diesel engines here but later technologies where they have moved to. Diesel is on its way out.

And as you have said you admit they have been moving out.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 27, 2018
  • #20,412
skybluetony176 said:
I’ve just told you. I can post some links if you like but that would be more a case of showing you what you don’t know rather than showing you what I know. Alternatively before you start talking nonsense why don’t you go and look for yourself and do some fact checking beforehand.

Here’s some pointers for you. There’s at least two British MEP’s who have been jailed for expense fraud and forced to pay it back. There’s been a few British MP’s jailed for the same and a good few more who were deselected, resigned, retired early and paid money’s back to avoid further scrutiny/legal action. I really find it hard to believe that you need a link for the latter given the size of the scandal and how well it was covered.

Cash for questions. There was one fairly high profile case of an Austrian MEP who went to jail for it. There was a big scandal here in the U.K. (again I can’t believe you need a link for this) but I wrongly or rightly don’t believe and MEP’s went to jail for it and I can always only think of Neil Hamilton who ever faced any real action over it.
Click to expand...
Post these links. If they say what you make out they do you would already have done it.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 27, 2018
  • #20,413
skybluetony176 said:
Well the Tories have just recently voted that animals aren’t sentient beings so it hardly bodes well for animal farming standards.
Click to expand...
Would you like to explain how animal welfare standards are much higher in the UK than in most of the EU?

Of course you don't. Because headlines are there to be twisted.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 27, 2018
  • #20,414
skybluetony176 said:
You do realise that Britain’s top civil servant has been in the unelected job for decades under various PM’s and two parties. Although if Boris or Gove got the PM’s job instead of May it was widely suggested that he would have been sacked because he’s a remainer and they would bring their own Brexit backing civil servant in instead. Jobs for the boys doesn’t just happen in the EU you know. Presumably if this had have happened you would have spitting feathers.
Click to expand...
So top jobs in the UK are not elected for? Just like the EU?

No. But let's twist the truth.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 27, 2018
  • #20,415
martcov said:
„Greater German Empire“? Mad as a hatter.

Le maire also said everyone wants a good deal and said Chequers was a move in the right direction and praised May‘s courage.

Some people are just too thick to comprehend statements.
Click to expand...
Yet you normally ignore the good comments towards Brexit and champion every bad comment towards Brexit.

Do you think it makes you clever or thick?
 
Reactions: SkyblueBazza

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 27, 2018
  • #20,416
They kept to diesel engines here but later technologies where they have moved to. Diesel is on its way out.

And as you have said you admit they have been moving out.[/QUOTE]

strange turn of phrase, admit, it's just a fact, our company had some involvement in a project that started here and was going to be moved.

I still think they will plan to build hybrid/electric cars in this country. If that is what they're planning I don't know whether disruption to the supply chain will change their way of thinking, I don't think it will personally.
I do expect there to be massive disruption, what I have no idea of is how long it will go on for.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 27, 2018
  • #20,417
martcov said:
An example?

And... just to cheer you up:

Race is on to be EU’s first ambassador to London
Click to expand...
And your point is?

As it says the third biggest trade area for the EU after China and America is the UK.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 27, 2018
  • #20,418
clint van damme said:
They kept to diesel engines here but later technologies where they have moved to. Diesel is on its way out.

And as you have said you admit they have been moving out.
Click to expand...

strange turn of phrase, admit, it's just a fact, our company had some involvement in a project that started here and was going to be moved.

I still think they will plan to build hybrid/electric cars in this country. If that is what they're planning I don't know whether disruption to the supply chain will change their way of thinking, I don't think it will personally.
I do expect there to be massive disruption, what I have no idea of is how long it will go on for.[/QUOTE]
As JLR have already tried they will blame Brexit for everything. Just like they did with the problems caused by keeping to diesel engines. A great way of taking the blame away from management mistakes if it sticks. And so many people are looking for things to blame in Brexit.
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Sep 27, 2018
  • #20,419
Astute said:
Yet you normally ignore the good comments towards Brexit and champion every bad comment towards Brexit.

Do you think it makes you clever or thick?
Click to expand...

And I suppose that you speak without any bias and simply speak 'the truth'?
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 27, 2018
  • #20,420
Sick Boy said:
And I suppose that you speak without any bias and simply speak 'the truth'?
Click to expand...
Look at the comments from Mart, Tony and yourself. The vast majority are biased and not the full truth. If that wasn't the case I wouldn't have to keep pointing it all out. Then I could spend more time commenting on the problems with Brexit.

And there certainly is plenty.
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Sep 27, 2018
  • #20,421
Astute said:
Look at the comments from Mart, Tony and yourself. The vast majority are biased and not the full truth. If that wasn't the case I wouldn't have to keep pointing it all out. Then I could spend more time commenting on the problems with Brexit.

And there certainly is plenty.
Click to expand...

Then why have you never challenged those posters who only ever speak positives of Brexit?

The way you're portraying it is as though it's only pro-remain posting on the thread when in reality it's a 50/50 split, if not more weighted towards leave.
 
Reactions: martcov

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 27, 2018
  • #20,422
Astute said:
strange turn of phrase, admit, it's just a fact, our company had some involvement in a project that started here and was going to be moved.

I still think they will plan to build hybrid/electric cars in this country. If that is what they're planning I don't know whether disruption to the supply chain will change their way of thinking, I don't think it will personally.
I do expect there to be massive disruption, what I have no idea of is how long it will go on for.
Click to expand...
As JLR have already tried they will blame Brexit for everything. Just like they did with the problems caused by keeping to diesel engines. A great way of taking the blame away from management mistakes if it sticks. And so many people are looking for things to blame in Brexit.[/QUOTE]

I've consistently said it has little or nothing to do with Brexit. BMWs shut down in April has and I have no idea about Volkswagen.

As I say, I fully expect JIT supply chains to be impacted massively when we leave though. That is if we leave the customs union, who knows, we may not yet.
 
Reactions: Sick Boy and martcov
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 27, 2018
  • #20,423
Astute said:
Yet you normally ignore the good comments towards Brexit and champion every bad comment towards Brexit.

Do you think it makes you clever or thick?
Click to expand...

What good comments? And as I quote things or post links and corrections to your posts, I would not put myself into the same class as some more rabid leavers who just spew cliches and Faragisms as if they’ve just read the Express, Sun or Mail.
 
Reactions: Sick Boy
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 27, 2018
  • #20,424
Astute said:
And your point is?

As it says the third biggest trade area for the EU after China and America is the UK.
Click to expand...

Yes, has anyone disputed that the UK trading with our neighbours is not massively important? Apart from the Faragists who say only 10% of firms have anything to do with EU trade.
 
Reactions: skybluetony176 and Sick Boy
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 27, 2018
  • #20,425
Astute said:
And your point is?

As it says the third biggest trade area for the EU after China and America is the UK.
Click to expand...

It was a question, followed by the latest rumour about Selmayr coming to London.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 27, 2018
  • #20,426
Astute said:
So top jobs in the UK are not elected for? Just like the EU?

No. But let's twist the truth.
Click to expand...

No. Let’s see you explain how our top civil servants are elected. Juncker was put forward by his party as Spitzenkandidat, elected 26 to 2 by an electoral college of 28 heads of government and by a majority in the EU parliament. Now, over to you.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 27, 2018
  • #20,427
Astute said:
Yet you normally ignore the good comments towards Brexit and champion every bad comment towards Brexit.

Do you think it makes you clever or thick?
Click to expand...

No. It is you that ignores the quotes from the USA about May speaking to Americans like a second hand car salesperson with undeliverable promises, and from the EU about prosperity for all and that the greed of the few caused the 2008 crisis. The opposite viewpoint to your idol Rees Mogg. You say you are more labour, but the EU quote was more Centre left labour. You didn’t want to comment on that.. you prefer going on and on and on about Selmayr.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 27, 2018
  • #20,428
Astute said:
Post these links. If they say what you make out they do you would already have done it.
Click to expand...

I have never met someone who is so opinionated yet be so clueless. It’s seems everything just passes you by regardless of how high profile news it was at the time.

Jailed fraud MEP told to pay back money

Disgraced ex-Ukip MEP Tom Wise jailed for two years for expenses fraud

Former MEP is jailed for £500,000 expenses swindle

Austrian ex-MEP jailed for bribes

The fact that you seriously need a link to the following two enormous U.K. scandals is scandalous in itself

No Expenses Spared: the inside story of the Telegraph's MPs' expenses investigation

Cash for questions: scandal that should have changed face of British politics

Happy now? Or do you want to make yourself look even more foolish? Trust me, there’s an endless source of theses stories should you be bothered to look for them.
 
Reactions: martcov

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 27, 2018
  • #20,429
Astute said:
So top jobs in the UK are not elected for? Just like the EU?

No. But let's twist the truth.
Click to expand...

Most civil servants are appointed not elected. That’s a fact. The only one trying to twist truths is you.
 
Reactions: martcov

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 27, 2018
  • #20,430
Astute said:
Would you like to explain how animal welfare standards are much higher in the UK than in most of the EU?

Of course you don't. Because headlines are there to be twisted.
Click to expand...

Because we’ve recognised animals as sentient beings for a long time in law, until recently.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 27, 2018
  • #20,431
Sick Boy said:
Then why have you never challenged those posters who only ever speak positives of Brexit?

The way you're portraying it is as though it's only pro-remain posting on the thread when in reality it's a 50/50 split, if not more weighted towards leave.
Click to expand...
Why don't you look back. The vast majority are questioning what is said by pro EU and anti Brexit. And mentioning why Brexit could be good in ways.

A few of you make out we need to stay in whatever. Nobody is saying we must leave whatever. That is the difference.

I have a busy life girls. Keep up with the back slapping and slagging the UK off. And then you have the defending of the EU however bent it is that it does. It seems to make you happy.
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Sep 27, 2018
  • #20,432
Astute said:
Why don't you look back. The vast majority are questioning what is said by pro EU and anti Brexit. And mentioning why Brexit could be good in ways.

A few of you make out we need to stay in whatever. Nobody is saying we must leave whatever. That is the difference.

I have a busy life girls. Keep up with the back slapping and slagging the UK off. And then you have the defending of the EU however bent it is that it does. It seems to make you happy.
Click to expand...

For someone who claims to speak 'the truth', your claims are nothing but outright lies.

Questioning Brexit doesn't equate to slagging off the UK. Your use of 'girls' as an insult is like something out of the 1980s.
 
Reactions: skybluetony176 and martcov

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 27, 2018
  • #20,433
skybluetony176 said:
Because we’ve recognised animals as sentient beings for a long time in law, until recently.
Click to expand...
Pig Industry "blatantly flouting European law" | Agricultural and Rural Convention
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 27, 2018
  • #20,434
Sick Boy said:
For someone who claims to speak 'the truth', your claims are nothing but outright lies.

Questioning Brexit doesn't equate to slagging off the UK. Your use of 'girls' as an insult is like something out of the 1980s.
Click to expand...
Ok. Good boy.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 27, 2018
  • #20,435
Astute said:
Pig Industry "blatantly flouting European law" | Agricultural and Rural Convention
Click to expand...

You’re posting that like I’ve disagreed with you, I haven’t.

Do you think that a political party in power voting that animals don’t feel pain or are capable of emotions is going to be good or bad for animal welfare? By any stretch of the imagination it’s not an indication that more compassion is going to be given to animals is it? If you were wanting to do that you would want it more entrenched in law that animals are sentient beings not take that away from them.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 27, 2018
  • #20,436
Astute said:
Ok. Good boy.
Click to expand...

Lost the argument right there. At least you were arguing before this point.
 
Reactions: Sick Boy and martcov

Captain Dart

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 27, 2018
  • #20,437
Westendlad said:
Heard a clip on the radio of some mad lefty woman (Tracey someone ?? ) at the conference saying that unless labour get their way she wants to call on her 'brothers and sisters' in the trade unions to call for a general strike....And you wonder why i detest lefties lol
Click to expand...
She is actually an MP! Unbelievable, a General Strike is not a solution to anything, she is living in a 1920's parallel universe.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 27, 2018
  • #20,438
Captain Dart said:
She is actually an MP! Unbelievable, a General Strike is not a solution to anything, she is living in a 1920's parallel universe.
Click to expand...

But Brexit is? A general strike, mad as it is, wouldn’t last more than a couple of weeks and wouldn’t take us out of the SM and CU.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 27, 2018
  • #20,439
skybluetony176 said:
Lost the argument right there. At least you were arguing before this point.
Click to expand...

He lost the argument when he had to resort to endless Juncker and Selmayr red herrings to avoid facts about the negative impact of a hard Brexit.
 
Reactions: skybluetony176 and Sick Boy

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 27, 2018
  • #20,440
Astute said:
Look at the comments from Mart, Tony and yourself. The vast majority are biased and not the full truth. If that wasn't the case I wouldn't have to keep pointing it all out. Then I could spend more time commenting on the problems with Brexit.

And there certainly is plenty.
Click to expand...

Pointing what out? The majority of your posts are a distraction from the point and usually go along the lines of what about Selmayr/Merkel/Junker (delete as appropriate).
 
Reactions: martcov and Sick Boy
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