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The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (11 Viewers)

  • Thread starter jimmyhillsfanclub
  • Start date Jun 8, 2016
Forums New posts

As of right now, how are thinking of voting? In or out

  • Remain

    Votes: 23 37.1%
  • Leave

    Votes: 35 56.5%
  • Undecided

    Votes: 3 4.8%
  • Not registered or not intention to vote

    Votes: 1 1.6%

  • Total voters
    62
  • Poll closed Jun 15, 2016.
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Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 24, 2018
  • #20,266
martcov said:
You can’t negotiate until the other side say what they want. After 2 years May turned up with a plan which everyone knew and had said was unworkable. So, we still haven’t got any further with the main points.
Click to expand...
Here we go again.

So how do we solve the Ireland problem?

If there is a free trade agreement the major hurdles are sorted. But they won't look into a trade agreement until the problems are sorted.

All OK so far?

So how can we sort out the Ireland problem when we don't know what sort of trade agreement there will be?

Then you say it isn't those running the EU that are causing any problems.
 
S

SkyblueBazza

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 24, 2018
  • #20,267
Sick Boy said:
Just got confirmation of moving over to Verona just after Christmas, can't wait
Click to expand...
Congratulations - hope it all goes well for you

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
 
Reactions: Sick Boy
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 25, 2018
  • #20,268
Astute said:
So everyone out of the 27 have said they don't want to negotiate?
Click to expand...

No. They asked for workable proposals to negotiate on. They said Chequers was a starting point. May said it was all that was on the table. End of story.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 25, 2018
  • #20,269
Astute said:
Here we go again.

So how do we solve the Ireland problem?

If there is a free trade agreement the major hurdles are sorted. But they won't look into a trade agreement until the problems are sorted.

All OK so far?

So how can we sort out the Ireland problem when we don't know what sort of trade agreement there will be?

Then you say it isn't those running the EU that are causing any problems.
Click to expand...

The Irish problem was solved by the GFA. Brexit puts that at risk. Say how the UK will guarantee regulatory alignment and we can move on. Without knowing how the border will operate you cannot have any deal, including WTO.

You are just trying to blame others for the Brexit dilemma of controlling our borders and having an open border for Ireland. It’s up to people like you to find a solution to your own problem.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 25, 2018
  • #20,270
Astute said:
So you have changed what you said about him now. OK.

So how about the link I provided for you that showed Brexit is bad for hedge funds?
Click to expand...

The link was about licensing to be able to trade. Not about financial gains from Brexit. Rees Mogg has moved investment funds to Dublin. He has a foot in both camps.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 25, 2018
  • #20,271
martcov said:
No. They asked for workable proposals to negotiate on. They said Chequers was a starting point. May said it was all that was on the table. End of story.
Click to expand...
And what is a workable proposal other than staying in the SM and keeping our borders open to those with an EU passport?
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 25, 2018
  • #20,272
martcov said:
The Irish problem was solved by the GFA. Brexit puts that at risk. Say how the UK will guarantee regulatory alignment and we can move on. Without knowing how the border will operate you cannot have any deal, including WTO.

You are just trying to blame others for the Brexit dilemma of controlling our borders and having an open border for Ireland. It’s up to people like you to find a solution to your own problem.
Click to expand...
You are just coming out with EU propaganda.

How many problems would be resolved with a free trade agreement?
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 25, 2018
  • #20,273
martcov said:
The link was about licensing to be able to trade. Not about financial gains from Brexit. Rees Mogg has moved investment funds to Dublin. He has a foot in both camps.
Click to expand...
Try reading it again.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 25, 2018
  • #20,274
Astute said:
You are just coming out with EU propaganda.

How many problems would be resolved with a free trade agreement?
Click to expand...

No I am not. The UK voted for Brexit. Not the EU. Now your mate Mogg has a „new“ FTA which he wants and which was drawn up by the IEA. A dubious organisation funded by so-called dark money.

Dark money lurks at the heart of our political crisis | George Monbiot

This is his free trade wet dream. Ditch workers‘ protections and pesky regulations. This is the Brexit, which the very people who have most to lose, were sweet talked into voting for. The slow hypnotic voice from the posh toff, backed up by blustering Billy Bunter BoJo and beer and fags, posh boy in disguise, Farage, financed by Banks‘dark money, has led you up the garden path and you now spout their crap as if it is yours and is fact. It isn’t. Brexit is turbo capitalism.

I am all for people making money, but there has to be safeguards for the staff and the environment. There are more safeguards for people‘s rights built into the EU, despite Selmayr’s rushed promotion. I certainly wouldn’t recommend believing in any IEA Plan presented by a wealthy hedge fund owner.

But, you obviously would, especially if Mogg ( who has his own nanny ) brings up Mary Poppins. So very nice. So very British. He is a great actor and has created a nice image for someone who’s really out to con working people.
 
Reactions: Sick Boy
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 25, 2018
  • #20,275
Astute said:
Try reading it again.
Click to expand...

How do they lose?
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 25, 2018
  • #20,276
Astute said:
And what is a workable proposal other than staying in the SM and keeping our borders open to those with an EU passport?
Click to expand...

Canada +? You tell me. You are for Brexit. Rees Mogg has a plan. No way will it be accepted and he will get his hard Brexit. This will cause chaos, bring May down, and in storms the „emerging markets“ team. After the disaster, ( guesswork on my part - and virtually everyone else‘s ), Britain will one day recover, and in 50 years it will be booming again ( according to Rees Mogg ).

The alternative would be remain and reform. Use the existing powers to eject people who cannot find a job within 3 months. Pump money into UK areas left behind, boost the economy and take an active roll in improving the EU. Leave Rees Mogg to concentrate on emerging markets and Aron Banks to carry on bunging politicians in Africa to get mining licenses instead of leading British people up the garden path. Farage has an alternative career in speaking to right wing pensioners in the USA through Fox News.
 
Reactions: clint van damme and Sick Boy

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 25, 2018
  • #20,277
There is no workable solution to the Irish border. The DUP are single handedly seeing to that. The Tories may be the head of the country but on this issue the DUP are the neck and the neck turns the head. That’s why chequers isn’t workable.
 
Reactions: clint van damme

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 25, 2018
  • #20,278
martcov said:
A dubious organisation funded by so-called dark money.
Click to expand...

Health groups dismayed by news 'big tobacco' funded rightwing thinktanks

Basically it’s from the same think tank that thinks like this

 
Last edited: Sep 25, 2018
Reactions: martcov

SIR ERNIE

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 25, 2018
  • #20,279
martcov said:
Just take a look at the motley crew announcing their alternative free trade deal.... enjoy..
Click to expand...

Your mates

Clegg
Major
Blair
Lord Adonis
Campbell
Lally
Umana


now THAT'S a motley crew.
 
Reactions: Astute

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Sep 25, 2018
  • #20,280
SkyblueBazza said:
Congratulations - hope it all goes well for you

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Cheers!
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 25, 2018
  • #20,281
SIR ERNIE said:
Your mates

Clegg
Major
Blair
Lord Adonis
Campbell
Lally
Umana


now THAT'S a motley crew.
Click to expand...

Any involved in financial scandals? Russian money? Sex affairs? Not all perfect by any means, but rather them than the opposing rogues.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 25, 2018
  • #20,282
martcov said:
Any involved in financial scandals? Russian money? Sex affairs? Not all perfect by any means, but rather them than the opposing rogues.
Click to expand...

Yes they have been involved in scandals
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 25, 2018
  • #20,283
Grendel said:
Yes they have been involved in scandals
Click to expand...

I’m surprised you knew that. Or were you just playing dumb the other day when when you asked me to “educate” you on why our political institutions and politicians are just as bad any from within the EU? Still it’s not like one of them produced a dressed up dossier that took us to what can only be described as an illegal war while an unelected man described as the most influential person in British politics at the time was running around newspapers and news stations selling it to the public. Things like that only happens in the EU. Apparently.
 
Reactions: martcov

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 25, 2018
  • #20,284
skybluetony176 said:
I’m surprised you knew that. Or were you just playing dumb the other day when when you asked me to “educate” you on why our political institutions and politicians are just as bad any from within the EU? Still it’s not like one of them produced a dressed up dossier that took us to what can only be described as an illegal war while an unelected man described as the most influential person in British politics at the time was running around newspapers and news stations selling it to the public. Things like that only happens in the EU. Apparently.
Click to expand...

Is that the same man who loves Europe - your namesake Tony?
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 25, 2018
  • #20,285
Grendel said:
Is that the same man who loves Europe - your namesake Tony?
Click to expand...

Scandal after scandal, not to mention previous Tory governments before Blair. But, let’s look at the appointment of a top civil servant in the EU. We cannot look at the appointments in the UK because they are all done in secret and have, allegedly, a lot to do with old school ties.
 
Last edited: Sep 26, 2018

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 25, 2018
  • #20,286
martcov said:
No I am not. The UK voted for Brexit. Not the EU. Now your mate Mogg has a „new“ FTA which he wants and which was drawn up by the IEA. A dubious organisation funded by so-called dark money.

Dark money lurks at the heart of our political crisis | George Monbiot

This is his free trade wet dream. Ditch workers‘ protections and pesky regulations. This is the Brexit, which the very people who have most to lose, were sweet talked into voting for. The slow hypnotic voice from the posh toff, backed up by blustering Billy Bunter BoJo and beer and fags, posh boy in disguise, Farage, financed by Banks‘dark money, has led you up the garden path and you now spout their crap as if it is yours and is fact. It isn’t. Brexit is turbo capitalism.

I am all for people making money, but there has to be safeguards for the staff and the environment. There are more safeguards for people‘s rights built into the EU, despite Selmayr’s rushed promotion. I certainly wouldn’t recommend believing in any IEA Plan presented by a wealthy hedge fund owner.

But, you obviously would, especially if Mogg ( who has his own nanny ) brings up Mary Poppins. So very nice. So very British. He is a great actor and has created a nice image for someone who’s really out to con working people.
Click to expand...
My mate Mogg?

Shows how childish you are.

Or have you got some kind of warped imagination?
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 25, 2018
  • #20,287
martcov said:
Canada +? You tell me. You are for Brexit. Rees Mogg has a plan. No way will it be accepted and he will get his hard Brexit. This will cause chaos, bring May down, and in storms the „emerging markets“ team. After the disaster, ( guesswork on my part - and virtually everyone else‘s ), Britain will one day recover, and in 50 years it will be booming again ( according to Rees Mogg ).

The alternative would be remain and reform. Use the existing powers to eject people who cannot find a job within 3 months. Pump money into UK areas left behind, boost the economy and take an active roll in improving the EU. Leave Rees Mogg to concentrate on emerging markets and Aron Banks to carry on bunging politicians in Africa to get mining licenses instead of leading British people up the garden path. Farage has an alternative career in speaking to right wing pensioners in the USA through Fox News.
Click to expand...
Reform?

It is the EU that needs to reform. Getting rid of those who don't keep to the rules and regulations would be a great start.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 25, 2018
  • #20,288
skybluetony176 said:
Health groups dismayed by news 'big tobacco' funded rightwing thinktanks

Basically it’s from the same think tank that thinks like this

View attachment 10591
Click to expand...
Says the person who voted UKIP
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 25, 2018
  • #20,289
martcov said:
Any involved in financial scandals? Russian money? Sex affairs? Not all perfect by any means, but rather them than the opposing rogues.
Click to expand...
Should we add Juncker if you want a financial scandal?
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 25, 2018
  • #20,290
skybluetony176 said:
I’m surprised you knew that. Or were you just playing dumb the other day when when you asked me to “educate” you on why our political institutions and politicians are just as bad any from within the EU? Still it’s not like one of them produced a dressed up dossier that took us to what can only be described as an illegal war while an unelected man described as the most influential person in British politics at the time was running around newspapers and news stations selling it to the public. Things like that only happens in the EU. Apparently.
Click to expand...
Isn't it strange that those involved in the worse scandals love the EU.........
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 25, 2018
  • #20,291
martcov said:
Scandal after scandal, not to mention previous story governments before Blair. But, let’s look at the appointment of a top civil servant in the EU. We cannot look at the appointments in the UK because they are all done in secret and have, allegedly, a lot to do with old school ties.
Click to expand...
Oh yes all done in secret where we have votes. Whilst the EU dies it in public and doesn't bother having votes.......something wrong there.
 
S

SkyblueBazza

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 26, 2018
  • #20,292
skybluetony176 said:
There is no workable solution to the Irish border. The DUP are single handedly seeing to that. The Tories may be the head of the country but on this issue the DUP are the neck and the neck turns the head. That’s why chequers isn’t workable.
Click to expand...
There is generally a workable solution if both sides desire one.

Bruno Le Maire appears not to want anything but what is best for EU citizens..."Any decision that gives European citizens the impression that you can leave the European Union and keep all the advantages would be suicidal,"...just what is best for the EU machine, virtually holding the citizens in shackles

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 26, 2018
  • #20,293
Astute said:
My mate Mogg?

Shows how childish you are.

Or have you got some kind of warped imagination?
Click to expand...

You just praised him. Don’t know why if you are not a fan.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 26, 2018
  • #20,294
Astute said:
Oh yes all done in secret where we have votes. Whilst the EU dies it in public and doesn't bother having votes.......something wrong there.
Click to expand...

The EU elections are next year. Who voted for our top civil servant? Why was he appointed? How many candidates were there? What were the criteria for his selection?

You don’t even know his name, let alone have the slightest influence on his appointment. But, you went off on your red herring search because Juncker is leaving soon and you needed a new EU bogey man.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 26, 2018
  • #20,295
Astute said:
Isn't it strange that those involved in the worse scandals love the EU.........
Click to expand...

It is even stranger that some think scandals only happen with foreigners in the EU.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 26, 2018
  • #20,296
Astute said:
Should we add Juncker if you want a financial scandal?
Click to expand...

Has he taken money out of the till?
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 26, 2018
  • #20,297
Astute said:
Says the person who voted UKIP
Click to expand...

Cheap.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 26, 2018
  • #20,298
Astute said:
Reform?

It is the EU that needs to reform. Getting rid of those who don't keep to the rules and regulations would be a great start.
Click to expand...

They were proven to be within the law and the EU is making the rules stronger to ensure the „coup“ cannot be repeated. They cannot backdate laws to catch people.

Making stronger rules to avoid future abuse is called reform.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 26, 2018
  • #20,299
Astute said:
Oh yes all done in secret where we have votes. Whilst the EU dies it in public and doesn't bother having votes.......something wrong there.
Click to expand...

When did we have votes for civil servants? Making things up again.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 26, 2018
  • #20,300
SkyblueBazza said:
There is generally a workable solution if both sides desire one.

Bruno Le Maire appears not to want anything but what is best for EU citizens..."Any decision that gives European citizens the impression that you can leave the European Union and keep all the advantages would be suicidal,"...just what is best for the EU machine, virtually holding the citizens in shackles

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

No he didn’t just say that. He said that a good deal is in everyone’s interest and that Chequers was a move in the right direction. He also praised May‘s courage. Yes, UK citizens will lose the benefit of freedom of movement after we leave, as will EU citizens wanting to go the UK. That is a fact and that is what 17,4 million voters wanted. He pointed it out as a cost of Brexit. Don’t have a go at him, have a go at the Brexit culprits who are taking my automatic rights off me.
 
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