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The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (16 Viewers)

  • Thread starter jimmyhillsfanclub
  • Start date Jun 8, 2016
Forums New posts

As of right now, how are thinking of voting? In or out

  • Remain

    Votes: 23 37.1%
  • Leave

    Votes: 35 56.5%
  • Undecided

    Votes: 3 4.8%
  • Not registered or not intention to vote

    Votes: 1 1.6%

  • Total voters
    62
  • Poll closed Jun 15, 2016.
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M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 31, 2018
  • #18,061
Grendel said:
What do you mean not during the current budget? That’s a breakdown of the £39b payments.
Click to expand...

Yes, but we don’t have a loan. The budget payments have to be paid as due.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 31, 2018
  • #18,062
Astute said:
Annoying but allowable?

Annoying is a massive understatement. They totally bent the rules that they are supposed to govern by. All trust is lost. What else have they done that we haven't found out yet?
Click to expand...

Are you seriously asking me to say what has not been found out yet?
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 31, 2018
  • #18,063
martcov said:
Yes, but we don’t have a loan. The budget payments have to be paid as due.
Click to expand...

These include the payments we’d already make as part of our normal payments during the transition period
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 31, 2018
  • #18,064
Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
I just listed the main one:

Leaving the EU.

Being unable to accept, acknowledge, or even remotely understand the vote two years later is the behaviour of someone who's brain doesn't work properly.
Click to expand...

Leaving the EU is a valid reason for leaving the EU?
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 31, 2018
  • #18,065
Grendel said:
These include the payments we’d already make as part of our normal payments during the transition period
Click to expand...

When will we pay them?
 

Earlsdon_Skyblue1

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 31, 2018
  • #18,066
torchomatic said:
To be honest i would have thought those who voted to make us poorer had "lost it".

Latest: Kent will become the biggest car park in the world. Another Brexit triumph that was never mentioned. Funny that.
Click to expand...

No, you've gone past the point of being able to have a reasoned debate with. You start shouting off on here that everyone is a right-wing racist and scream about the fact we're leaving the EU and nothing else which really makes any sense comes out. You're so angry about the vote you cannot be rational any more.

You abuse anyone who voted leave, but then fail to understand that this same kind of harassment encouraged people to vote the way they did. It's that same kind of elitist bullying which makes people not want to follow your way of thinking. The thing is, the more that people like you, Mart, the government, and the EU fail to listen to people with genuine concerns, the more this kind of reaction will continue to happen...
 
Reactions: Astute

Earlsdon_Skyblue1

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 31, 2018
  • #18,067
martcov said:
You are a remainer and voted remain don’t forget.
Click to expand...

Amazingly some people can see both sides of the debate...
 
Reactions: Astute

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 31, 2018
  • #18,068
martcov said:
When will we pay them?
Click to expand...

£16 billion between 2019 and 2020
£18 billion between 2021 and 2028

The balance paid from 2029 to 2064 with payments reducing
 

Earlsdon_Skyblue1

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 31, 2018
  • #18,069
martcov said:
Leaving the EU is a valid reason for leaving the EU?
Click to expand...

Yes.

Why did you break up with your girlfriend? Maybe because you didn't want to be with her anymore?

That's a good enough reason isn't it?
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 31, 2018
  • #18,070
martcov said:
Because of one legal, but dodgy appointment? The whole EU will break up with massive negative consequences? Talk about getting your knickers in a twist.
Click to expand...
Yes just one.

Would you like to state as a fact that it is the only one?
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 31, 2018
  • #18,071
Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
Yes.

Why did you break up with your girlfriend? Maybe because you didn't want to be with her anymore?

That's a good enough reason isn't it?
Click to expand...
Where you might regret it at first. But then find a better one and be better off.
 

torchomatic

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 31, 2018
  • #18,072
Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
No, you've gone past the point of being able to have a reasoned debate with. You start shouting off on here that everyone is a right-wing racist and scream about the fact we're leaving the EU and nothing else which really makes any sense comes out. You're so angry about the vote you cannot be rational any more.

You abuse anyone who voted leave, but then fail to understand that this same kind of harassment encouraged people to vote the way they did. It's that same kind of elitist bullying which makes people not want to follow your way of thinking. The thing is, the more that people like you, Mart, the government, and the EU fail to listen to people with genuine concerns, the more this kind of reaction will continue to happen...
Click to expand...

Elitist bullying?! It is that kind of ridiculous language that makes remainers like me generalise about brexiteers like yourself.
 
Reactions: martcov
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 31, 2018
  • #18,073
Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
I just listed the main one:

Leaving the EU.

Being unable to accept, acknowledge, or even remotely understand the vote two years later is the behaviour of someone who's brain doesn't work properly.
Click to expand...

Who would that be? Not me obviously. I accept that a vote took place and acknowledge and understand the reasons, as I have said e.g. immigration for starters.

What I don’t understand is why people cannot list convincing benefits. Maybe they just don’t like immigrants ( apart from their partners in some cases ). Even Rees Mogg says we will be having more immigrants to keep the economy going. He says they will be relatives of Asians already living here instead of EU citizens. Seeing as you think Muslims are a threat, you won’t have gained much by voting leave.
Grendel said:
What do you mean not during the current budget? That’s a breakdown of the £39b payments.
Click to expand...
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 31, 2018
  • #18,074
Grendel said:
What do you mean not during the current budget? That’s a breakdown of the £39b payments.
Click to expand...

The current 7 year EU budget.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 31, 2018
  • #18,075
Astute said:
Where you might regret it at first. But then find a better one and be better off.
Click to expand...

Or find another one you cannot get on with.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 31, 2018
  • #18,076
Astute said:
You know the rules off by heart on what the EU says is allowable.

So come out with what is allowable that also means leaving.
Click to expand...

The negotiating stance of the EU has been published since the beginning. Ours since the white paper.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 31, 2018
  • #18,077
torchomatic said:
Elitist bullying?! It is that kind of ridiculous language that makes remainers like me generalise about brexiteers like yourself.
Click to expand...
Is it?

Look at where the name calling starts most of the time. Anyone who can see benefits of leaving is thick, racist or worse. Anyone who can see the faults of the EU is counted as the same. I am surprised more name calling doesn't get returned.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 31, 2018
  • #18,078
martcov said:
Who would that be? Not me obviously. I accept that a vote took place and acknowledge and understand the reasons, as I have said e.g. immigration for starters.

What I don’t understand is why people cannot list convincing benefits. Maybe they just don’t like immigrants ( apart from their partners in some cases ). Even Rees Mogg says we will be having more immigrants to keep the economy going. He says they will be relatives of Asians already living here instead of EU citizens. Seeing as you think Muslims are a threat, you won’t have gained much by voting leave.
Click to expand...
I have listed the benefits of remaining. I have listed the benefits of leaving.

You ignored the benefits of remaining and constantly have a go at the benefits of leaving. And never remember the good points of being in the EU that I mention.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 31, 2018
  • #18,079
martcov said:
The current 7 year EU budget.
Click to expand...
The current 7 year deal ends in 2020. The transitional period lasts until the end of 2020.

So your point is?

Or is it like usual and you don't have one?
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 31, 2018
  • #18,080
martcov said:
Or find another one you cannot get on with.
Click to expand...
So I should always stay with the one I have just in case I don't find a better one?
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 31, 2018
  • #18,081
martcov said:
The negotiating stance of the EU has been published since the beginning. Ours since the white paper.
Click to expand...
Come on. You always say we know what the terms are.

So what are the terms?
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 31, 2018
  • #18,082
martcov said:
The current 7 year EU budget.
Click to expand...

We contribute as part of our settlement it’s the figure any shortfall and in the next budget will be found by existing members increasing their net contribution
 
C

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 31, 2018
  • #18,083
This is unfortunately what I think the aim has possibly been all along (from Guardian article today). Where's the incentive to agree to any proposals (I appreciate our current one doesnt appear workable !) or come up with sensible alternatives when you could push for a second referendum on staying in or a "hard brexit". It could it be Ireland, France, Denmark all over again.

"Meanwhile, Elmar Brok, a German MEP who is a key ally of the chancellor, Angela Merkel, has backed a second referendum on the UK’s membership of the EU, but warned that it needs to happen within months. “If there is no exit agreement until 29 March 2019, a hard Brexit will occur,” he said. “A referendum still in December or January could avert the hard Brexit.”

For anyone who has never read up on previous EU votes the following link is useful. I read on the day before the referendum and it made my decision for me (I was on the fence in the run up). Purely democratic reasons, together with my belief that there should be the ability to control immigration for any country ie making sure you have adequate services and infrastructure to support whatever your net migration numbers are.

Referendums related to the European Union - Wikipedia
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 31, 2018
  • #18,084
martcov said:
Who would that be? Not me obviously. I accept that a vote took place and acknowledge and understand the reasons, as I have said e.g. immigration for starters.

What I don’t understand is why people cannot list convincing benefits. Maybe they just don’t like immigrants ( apart from their partners in some cases ). Even Rees Mogg says we will be having more immigrants to keep the economy going. He says they will be relatives of Asians already living here instead of EU citizens. Seeing as you think Muslims are a threat, you won’t have gained much by voting leave.
Click to expand...

There are many reasons to oppose the EU and vote against it

As for benefits that depends what you mean does it not and how you perceive the EU is developing

For me here is a few:

No more political integration. We did not vote for political integration and we had no alternative in parliament to oppose it. Immigration is used as an example of this but its a symbol of lack of ability to decide policies. Its a laugh that so many people are apparently passionate Europeans who value EU democracy and yet have no interest in the Eu parliament at all. Its elections have pathetic turnouts and many voters are clearly anti EU judging by the unsavoury people we elect. The passionate remainers are completely apathetic on EU election day.

No chance of fiscal union. A disastrous policy that is up there with the basket case that was the ERM - remember that one? You know when interest rates banged up to 15% until that dribbling fool Lamont (or was it Howe?) had to admit defeat and cave in. There is no question that the strategy will be developed in the coming years.

Currency Union. Another basket case which if we'd signed up to when the europhiles in the Thatcher cabinet were ready to crucify her would have led to a meltdown in the economy. Again this will be an objective of the EU and that along with the paralysis of fiscal integration will make the country strapped to German economic policy with zero ability to devalue or alter fiscal strategy as Greece, Italy, Spain and Portugal are finding out the hard way

Payments to other countries in the EU as a net contributor - no thanks
 
Reactions: Captain Dart

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Jul 31, 2018
  • #18,085
SkyblueBazza said:
Then why argue with others who think it will lead to prosperity if we get it right? You seem to be selfishly pusuing your vision as correct & theirs wrong...but none of us know

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Does that not apply to everyone?
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 31, 2018
  • #18,086
Grendel said:
We contribute as part of our settlement it’s the figure any shortfall and in the next budget will be found by existing members increasing their net contribution
Click to expand...

And they reduce the budget where they can to reduce the shortfall.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 31, 2018
  • #18,087
Astute said:
Come on. You always say we know what the terms are.

So what are the terms?
Click to expand...

Read the Eu statement. Google it.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 31, 2018
  • #18,088
martcov said:
And they reduce the budget where they can to reduce the shortfall.
Click to expand...

Where is that then?
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 31, 2018
  • #18,089
Astute said:
So I should always stay with the one I have just in case I don't find a better one?
Click to expand...

No, but you shouldn’t assume that the grass in the other field is any greener.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 31, 2018
  • #18,090
Grendel said:
Where is that then?
Click to expand...

I don’t have access to the EU budget or the time to study it. But there will be a smaller parliament and less farming subsidies to pay out. I don’t know how long certain types of support for the Eastern countries lasts. For example, Romania got millions to build up their tourism including taking part on tourist promotions throughout Europe. They had 2 tourist board offices in Germany, then one and now none,and no staff in Germany because the money was gradually reduced. I suspect many of these grants in other areas are reduced over time as the countries get to be able to survive without as much EU funding.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 31, 2018
  • #18,091
martcov said:
I don’t have access to the EU budget or the time to study it. But there will be a smaller parliament and less farming subsidies to pay out. I don’t know how long certain types of support for the Eastern countries lasts. For example, Romania got millions to build up their tourism including taking part on tourist promotions throughout Europe. They had 2 tourist board offices in Germany, then one and now none,and no staff in Germany because the money was gradually reduced. I suspect many of these grants in other areas are reduced over time as the countries get to be able to survive without as much EU funding.
Click to expand...

Mmmm so when the next budget is negotiated you thing our contribution which is £78 billion less than the previous 7 year contribution can be wiped out as tourist boards may close naturally.

OK Mart

Nurse - screens, screens !!!!!!
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 31, 2018
  • #18,092
martcov said:
Read the Eu statement. Google it.
Click to expand...
No. I want to hear it from you. You make out that everyone should know what it is.

Statement? Wasn't a statement you was talking about was it? You said we all know the guidelines. Let's hear what they are. And you know everything better than anyone else.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 31, 2018
  • #18,093
martcov said:
I don’t have access to the EU budget or the time to study it. But there will be a smaller parliament and less farming subsidies to pay out. I don’t know how long certain types of support for the Eastern countries lasts. For example, Romania got millions to build up their tourism including taking part on tourist promotions throughout Europe. They had 2 tourist board offices in Germany, then one and now none,and no staff in Germany because the money was gradually reduced. I suspect many of these grants in other areas are reduced over time as the countries get to be able to survive without as much EU funding.
Click to expand...
Less farming subsidies? You mean that there won't be as much going to the rich land owners?
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 31, 2018
  • #18,094
martcov said:
I don’t have access to the EU budget or the time to study it. But there will be a smaller parliament and less farming subsidies to pay out. I don’t know how long certain types of support for the Eastern countries lasts. For example, Romania got millions to build up their tourism including taking part on tourist promotions throughout Europe. They had 2 tourist board offices in Germany, then one and now none,and no staff in Germany because the money was gradually reduced. I suspect many of these grants in other areas are reduced over time as the countries get to be able to survive without as much EU funding.
Click to expand...
EU budget breakdown: What you need to know | DW | 03.05.2018

The new funding budget including 14.4 billions less a year from the UK.

And they plan to get rid of any wayward EU members.......
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 31, 2018
  • #18,095
Grendel said:
Mmmm so when the next budget is negotiated you thing our contribution which is £78 billion less than the previous 7 year contribution can be wiped out as tourist boards may close naturally.

OK Mart

Nurse - screens, screens !!!!!!
Click to expand...

Do you know what „for example“ means?
 
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