The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (22 Viewers)

martcov · Jul 13, 2018

dutchman said:
Is that the best response you can manage?

His legacy is alive and well in Spain as proven by this bogus extraditon request.

Strange how Germany still refuses to extradite known war criminals?

What on earth are you on about? What part of his legacy are you referring to? Look at the parliament and democratic votes ( the constitutionality valid ones ) in Spain. To compare modern Spain to Franco‘s Spain based on an illegal vote by populists ( which Fascists also were ) is crazy. Germany has examined the evidence of corruption and agreed that there is a case. That’s fact. Your assumptions are just that and not fact based. Wait until he has been tried. If the evidence is bogus, then it will come out. They had enough to convince the court, but I am keeping an open mind and will wait for the trial before saying it is a fix or not.

Or do you want to say that a court in Schleswig-Holstein is involved with a ( non existent) Franco style fascist regime in Spain? Crazy conspiracy theory.

What known war criminals?

martcov · Jul 13, 2018

SkyblueBazza said:
That could be you Mart!!!

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Not really. I am not racist or a bigot and I tend to read up on things and fact check things. Now.. back to you.....

martcov · Jul 13, 2018

SkyblueBazza said:
Until Germany is at risk of attack at some future point you mean? Then they will want NATO protection because that is part of the agreement. Like today...on the face of it - typical lilly-livered approach. Gain agreement with Trump, then agree together afterwards what their public interpretation of the agreement will be.

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What was the agreement with Trump according to the people who made it ? Not according to Trump who just rambles on, contradicts himself, repeats himself, loses the thread of what he’s talking about, drops a few digs about immigration in, tells May what sort of Brexit she should have and claims to be a stable genius.

martcov · Jul 13, 2018

Grendel said:
Perhaps you or Tony would like to link the commonality

Er...., now let’s see... oh I know.... what about your recent description of the vile EU, your constant rabid attacks on the EU, your constant denial of disadvantages for your own industry and thereby your own interests ( although you have said you have a nice pension coming up to buffer any Brexit disadvantages ), a secure pension being also a typical Brexiteer/ UKIP qualification ( although not essential ) e.g. Farage and co.. I wouldn’t say you are racist, but as others on here say, you don’t have to be racist to have something in common with UKIP. It wouldn’t be a hinderance though.

martcov · Jul 13, 2018

SkyblueBazza said:
I rest my case about agreeing & then subsequently agreeing that the agreement was nothing like what was ststed as being agreed

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Could you state your case, with evidence, please.

martcov · Jul 13, 2018

SkyblueBazza said:
I thought you calculated it by including foreign aid too though?

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No, I didn’t. People have said that foreign aid is a form of defence and should be counted, or at least not ignored. Helping impoverished regions could reduce the causes of terrorism for example. That is a theory. Do you count just arms? Or also wages, pensions and support costs? It is not easy. But, Trump wants to sell military equipment made in America. The rest is irrelevant for him.

martcov · Jul 13, 2018

SkyblueBazza said:
Until Germany is at risk of attack at some future point you mean? Then they will want NATO protection because that is part of the agreement. Like today...on the face of it - typical lilly-livered approach. Gain agreement with Trump, then agree together afterwards what their public interpretation of the agreement will be.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

Germany is part of the EU and there are 29 countries in NATO. If the USA goes, there are 28 others. The USA is no longer a reliable partner, politically or as a trading partner. Trump is tearing up agreements. That sets a precedence. Their word is not their bond. It is time for the rest of NATO, including Germany, to reassess their defence, if necessary without relying on the USA. Germany has not invaded any other country since the war. It has supported the USA at cost of money and life. If Trump is going to insult and bully Germany on the way to lick Putin‘s arse, then fxxk him and his country.

martcov · Jul 13, 2018

SkyblueBazza said:
No...defence spending is what you spend on being able to resist attack from aggressors Foreign aid is debatably a gift to help a country develop it's infrastructure & build a higher standard of living: or providing money which eventually flows into the foreign countries' defence budget. Thereby risking them attacking YOUR country!

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What are you on about now? There are various forms of foreign aid. It depends on how it is given and how it is controlled. Are you saying foreign aid to Africa will be used to buy tanks to invade us? Or to finance terrorism against us? Do you have examples? There are no doubt corrupt people who play the system, but that is not saying that aid overall is not helping stabilize regions. Terrorism is sponsored by our wealthy allies, they don’t need foreign aid.

Astute · Jul 13, 2018

martcov said:
UKIP did the UK no favours. Nigel Farage made the claim you are parroting. And it was not Britain First as the weren’t widely known before Brexit, he was referring to the BNP whose membership gleefully went over to UKIP and/ or voted leave. Same shit, different bucket. Not all UKIP or Brexit voters were previously BNP, but all BNP voters were anti EU. BNP was small and politically insignificant anyway.

I missed what he said. How about showing us with a link? You are good at that when needed.

And how about using your braincell for once.

Remain lost the vote by about 1,600,000 votes. They argue it wasn't fair in any way they can. They blame who they can including the older generation who remember what we signed up for. They talk about marches. They try to make out that the vote wasn't legal. They raise money to fight against the result of the vote. And this is just a bit of what has happened.

Now what would happen with the majority if they didn't get what they voted for? Mart seems to think they will roll over and have their bellies rubbed and won't complain in the slightest. Yeah OK.

Astute · Jul 13, 2018

martcov said:
Are you now equating Britain first with AfD?

You would love to.

Britain First IS insignificant in the UK. You would love AfD to be insignificant in Germany. You try to make out that AfD and 1 in 8 voters are insignificant.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...-semitic-messages-in-group-chat-idUSKCN1IJ299

Meet the far-right party that's bringing racism and xenophobia back to Germany

Astute · Jul 13, 2018

martcov said:
? I am not involved in this discussion between Astute and Sick Boy. I also haven’t said all UKIP voters are racist. Judging by the comments of many of them in the past and that Farage has had to try and deny it several times, there are a significant amount of racists. Farage even boasts to saved us from BNP by taking their racist supporters. Farage is famous for using a copy of Goebels‘ „breaking point“ poster with Arabs instead of Eastern Jews. Farage also gives talks at AfD and Bannon‘s fund raisers. He now threatens a comeback to UKIP as possible leader. No absolute non racist party would have anything to do with him.

So you call Tony a liar?

Astute · Jul 13, 2018

martcov said:
For someone who is not allowed an opinion you are doing quite well at turning everything into Juncker. No one claims the EU is perfect. Being pro EU doesn’t mean not wanting to reform it. It means that our of leave or remain, remain is the more sensible argument. The sheer chaos in the British government who are tasked with Brexit, shows that no one can agree what Brexit actually is, or how to go through with it without causing the country damage. One UKIP clown compared it to Colombus setting out to discover the Americas. That was a success, so let’s cast off into the unknown... with the livliehoods and well being of 65 million people. Amazing.

So you call me out on blaming and naming Juncker even when he isn't being mentioned?

My point against you stands. You will even use lies to defend the EU. You try to make out that Juncker has nothing to do with us leaving so we shouldn't talk about him.....And that it is nothing to do with his very dodgy past that you want him kept in the background.

Astute · Jul 13, 2018

martcov said:
What on earth are you on about? What part of his legacy are you referring to? Look at the parliament and democratic votes ( the constitutionality valid ones ) in Spain. To compare modern Spain to Franco‘s Spain based on an illegal vote by populists ( which Fascists also were ) is crazy. Germany has examined the evidence of corruption and agreed that there is a case. That’s fact. Your assumptions are just that and not fact based. Wait until he has been tried. If the evidence is bogus, then it will come out. They had enough to convince the court, but I am keeping an open mind and will wait for the trial before saying it is a fix or not.

Or do you want to say that a court in Schleswig-Holstein is involved with a ( non existent) Franco style fascist regime in Spain? Crazy conspiracy theory.

What known war criminals?

It wouldn't happen in an EU countries court.

Other than in Italy right at this minute.

The way I see it any country that attacks it's own people with the police is capable of anything. That is Spain for you.

Astute · Jul 13, 2018

martcov said:
Not really. I am not racist or a bigot and I tend to read up on things and fact check things. Now.. back to you.....

1 in 8 voters insignificant. Third largest party in Germany insignificant. The leading opposition party in Germany insignificant.

And that is just for starters.

martcov · Jul 13, 2018

Astute said:
I missed what he said. How about showing us with a link? You are good at that when needed.

And how about using your braincell for once.

Remain lost the vote by about 1,600,000 votes. They argue it wasn't fair in any way they can. They blame who they can including the older generation who remember what we signed up for. They talk about marches. They try to make out that the vote wasn't legal. They raise money to fight against the result of the vote. And this is just a bit of what has happened.

Now what would happen with the majority if they didn't get what they voted for? Mart seems to think they will roll over and have their bellies rubbed and won't complain in the slightest. Yeah OK.

It’s on YouTube in a recent interview.

52:48 = „work to be done“ Farage

Eurosceptics have been moaning backed up by the right wing press for over 40 years. Brexit „losers“ have only had 2 years to start taking the narrow and manipulated referendum vote apart. More to come..IMO.

I don’t care what the the then majority would think or do. That was two years ago, we have since learned a lot about what we voted on which we didn’t know before. We have sunk into political chaos and Brexit is looking like an unpolished turd, to use the language of our ex chief diplomat, and over 70% are dissatisfied with the handling of Brexit.

Yes, it will get nasty. No doubt about it. If Brexit goes pear shaped both sides will be up in arms. You underestimate the anger at having the country screwed if this goes wrong - and we crash out.

martcov · Jul 13, 2018

Astute said:
So you call me out on blaming and naming Juncker even when he isn't being mentioned?

My point against you stands. You will even use lies to defend the EU. You try to make out that Juncker has nothing to do with us leaving so we shouldn't talk about him.....And that it is nothing to do with his very dodgy past that you want him kept in the background.

If we are leaving because of Juncker, we are more stupid that I thought. He is gone in 2021.

Astute · Jul 13, 2018

martcov said:
What was the agreement with Trump according to the people who made it ? Not according to Trump who just rambles on, contradicts himself, repeats himself, loses the thread of what he’s talking about, drops a few digs about immigration in, tells May what sort of Brexit she should have and claims to be a stable genius.

Or you can look at it logically.

To get a trade deal with the EU you have to come to an agreement with 28...soon to be 27 countries. It isn't easy as the EU is all about protectionism. And what don't the 28 countries already trade? If we are tied to the EU still we won't be able to make our own trade deals. So we won't be able to make deals with other countries like the USA.

Yes the bloke is a moron. But is he wrong here?

martcov · Jul 13, 2018

Astute said:
1 in 8 voters insignificant. Third largest party in Germany insignificant. The leading opposition party in Germany insignificant.

And that is just for starters.

The country has several parties about the same size. Germany has PR and parties have to join coalitions as a rule. No one will join with AfD so that is the end of their significance.

martcov · Jul 13, 2018

Astute said:
Or you can look at it logically.

To get a trade deal with the EU you have to come to an agreement with 28...soon to be 27 countries. It isn't easy as the EU is all about protectionism. And what don't the 28 countries already trade? If we are tied to the EU still we won't be able to make our own trade deals. So we won't be able to make deals with other countries like the USA.

Yes the bloke is a moron. But is he wrong here?

Yes he is a moron. He has one strong partner with the EU not 28 or 27. So you are wrong.

Astute · Jul 13, 2018

martcov said:
Er...., now let’s see... oh I know.... what about your recent description of the vile EU, your constant rabid attacks on the EU, your constant denial of disadvantages for your own industry and thereby your own interests ( although you have said you have a nice pension coming up to buffer any Brexit disadvantages ), a secure pension being also a typical Brexiteer/ UKIP qualification ( although not essential ) e.g. Farage and co.. I wouldn’t say you are racist, but as others on here say, you don’t have to be racist to have something in common with UKIP. It wouldn’t be a hinderance though.

How about your constant defending of everything to do with the EU?

martcov · Jul 13, 2018

Astute said:
Or you can look at it logically.

To get a trade deal with the EU you have to come to an agreement with 28...soon to be 27 countries. It isn't easy as the EU is all about protectionism. And what don't the 28 countries already trade? If we are tied to the EU still we won't be able to make our own trade deals. So we won't be able to make deals with other countries like the USA.

Yes the bloke is a moron. But is he wrong here?

The EU will make the trade deal with the USA. They were doing that until he cancelled it. He would prefer 28 weaker partners than one strong partner. The morons would be the ones who decided they could get a better deal as a weaker partner than part of a strong organisation.

martcov · Jul 13, 2018

Astute said:
How about your constant defending of everything to do with the EU?

I don’t.

martcov · Jul 13, 2018

Astute said:
It wouldn't happen in an EU countries court.

Other than in Italy right at this minute.

The way I see it any country that attacks it's own people with the police is capable of anything. That is Spain for you.

Schleswig-Holstein is not like the particular case to which you refer to in Italy. They are being watched by everyone. There is no way they will deliberately break their own laws in such a high profile case. There is a new government in Spain. Certain police officers are not „Spain“.

skybluetony176 · Jul 13, 2018

Astute said:
So you call Tony a liar?

I think he’s saying Grendull is a liar. You know, the one who says that UKIP and their supporters are racist but you keep giving him a free pass and even liking some of his posts where he’s justifying that stance. That guy.

Astute · Jul 13, 2018

martcov said:
The country has several parties about the same size. Germany has PR and parties have to join coalitions as a rule. No one will join with AfD so that is the end of their significance.

So how come is the third party in Germany insignificant but UKIP here which is now properly insignificant....Not your insignificant.....always mentioned by you?

Astute · Jul 13, 2018

martcov said:
It’s on YouTube in a recent interview.

52:48 = „work to be done“ Farage

Eurosceptics have been moaning backed up by the right wing press for over 40 years. Brexit „losers“ have only had 2 years to start taking the narrow and manipulated referendum vote apart. More to come..IMO.

I don’t care what the the then majority would think or do. That was two years ago, we have since learned a lot about what we voted on which we didn’t know before. We have sunk into political chaos and Brexit is looking like an unpolished turd, to use the language of our ex chief diplomat, and over 70% are dissatisfied with the handling of Brexit.

Yes, it will get nasty. No doubt about it. If Brexit goes pear shaped both sides will be up in arms. You underestimate the anger at having the country screwed if this goes wrong - and we crash out.

So would you prefer those who want out of the EU joining UKIP again or someone else if somehow we don't leave?

How about an answer for this? You have dodged it so far whilst having a go at UKIP as usual.

Astute · Jul 13, 2018

martcov said:
If we are leaving because of Juncker, we are more stupid that I thought. He is gone in 2021.

So Juncker never lost remain countless votes by publicly saying just 3 days before the Brexit vote that there is no meeting planned and that there would never be a meeting for concessions for the UK when Cameron said there was?

So the public could see Cameron was lying. They didn't trust him at all then. They then saw through all the lies and scare tactics of remain.

Yet you try to call them mad. Mad for not protecting Mart who has lived in Germany most of his life?

Believe it or not but there are two sides to Brexit. And the other side to the one you preach is just as important to those who want it.

Astute · Jul 13, 2018

martcov said:
Yes he is a moron. He has one strong partner with the EU not 28 or 27. So you are wrong.

State where I am wrong without twisting what I have said for once.

Astute · Jul 13, 2018

martcov said:
I don’t.

So which part haven't you defended in the past?

Astute · Jul 13, 2018

martcov said:
The country has several parties about the same size. Germany has PR and parties have to join coalitions as a rule. No one will join with AfD so that is the end of their significance.

Several parties about the same size?

Which are these and how much of the vote did they get?

Sick Boy · Jul 13, 2018

Astute said:
So Juncker never lost remain countless votes by publicly saying just 3 days before the Brexit vote that there is no meeting planned and that there would never be a meeting for concessions for the UK when Cameron said there was?

So the public could see Cameron was lying. They didn't trust him at all then. They then saw through all the lies and scare tactics of remain.

Yet you try to call them mad. Mad for not protecting Mart who has lived in Germany most of his life?

Believe it or not but there are two sides to Brexit. And the other side to the one you preach is just as important to those who want it.

Both sides told lies yet you only ever done on and on and on about those from Remain.
All the false claims made during the EU referendum campaign
I wonder why?

Astute · Jul 13, 2018

skybluetony176 said:
I think he’s saying Grendull is a liar. You know, the one who says that UKIP and their supporters are racist but you keep giving him a free pass and even liking some of his posts where he’s justifying that stance. That guy.

Only when he talks sense and I agree with him.

Mart is trying to say UKIP are racist yet again. But strangely enough you missed it as usual. But you have to as you have said that they are not.

Sick Boy · Jul 13, 2018

Astute said:
Only when he talks sense and I agree with him.

Mart is trying to say UKIP are racist yet again. But strangely enough you missed it as usual. But you have to as you have said that they are not.

Do you reckon Henry Bolton is?

Astute · Jul 13, 2018

Sick Boy said:
Both sides told lies yet you only ever done on and on and on about those from Remain.
All the false claims made during the EU referendum campaign
I wonder why?

And as you know that is absolute bullshit.

Those on here don't constantly try to defend what leave said and constantly attack remain. But the few of you on here constantly go on about what leave said and ignore what leave said.

If anyone defended what leave said as much I would also point out where and why they are wrong like I have in the past.

Astute · Jul 13, 2018

Sick Boy said:
Do you reckon Henry Bolton is?

No idea who he is?

Has he made racist remarks? Does that make the whole party racist?

Are you a Labour voter? If what you are saying about him is what I think you are aiming at then all Labour voters are racist. I am not happy with that as I am a Labour voter.

The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (22 Viewers)

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