The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (11 Viewers)

martcov · Jul 3, 2016

mrtrench said:
They are all racist bigoted Little Englanders. They just do what Johnson or Murdoch says because they cannot think for themselves. They believed all the lies. Referendums are terrible because Hitler held one. They are to blame for the SNP. And so on...

And yet all the perfectly reasonable arguments presented here by people that didn't mention race once; who are able to think for themselves; who believe in democracy - all ignored.

Please stop whinging and accept that whilst a lot of people agree with you, more do not.

No, I do not accept that more people disagree with me. Not everyone voted and more people think they made a mistake in the leave camp than the remain camp. It could be that more people now agree with me.
Why do leavers think that they come across as racist, bigoted, little Engländers? Some undoubtly are, but virtually all leavers on here constantly deny they are racist. Why? I have never called anyone a racist on here ( there is one who I think is though ). I suspect that people know that they have landed on the side with some unsavoury people and feel uneasy about it.

I am not whinging - just pointing out my observations.

Referenda are dangerous as they can be manipulated by propaganda. That is why we have parliamentary democracy and not direct democracy. I believe in parliamentary democracy - not street democracy.

eastwoodsdustman · Jul 3, 2016

martcov said:
No, I do not accept that more people disagree with me. Not everyone voted and more people think they made a mistake in the leave camp than the remain camp. It could be that more people now agree with me.
Why do leavers think that they come across as racist, bigoted, little Engländers? Some undoubtly are, but virtually all leavers on here constantly deny they are racist. Why? I have never called anyone a racist on here ( there is one who I think is though ). I suspect that people know that they have landed on the side with some unsavoury people and feel uneasy about it.

I am not whinging - just pointing out my observations.

Referenda are dangerous as they can be manipulated by propaganda. That is why we have parliamentary democracy and not direct democracy. I believe in parliamentary democracy - not street democracy.

If more people voted in the referendum then probablility says that of those extra voters 48% would vote remain and 52% to leave. People had initial thoughts that they'd make a mistake because of all of the hysteria in the media and on social media sites. Now they've realised that the world is still turning every day I'm sure they would vote the same way given the chance.

Sick Boy · Jul 3, 2016

At least the likes of Johnson, Gove, Griffin, Farage, Putin, Le Pen, Trump and Salvini got their wish.

I'm still not entirely sure some of the English population actually knew what they were voting for. I've seen interviews where people were saying it was to get Muslims out of the country, to make England England again (whatever that means....presumably no one with any foreign ancestory)....once the brain drain starts, then the population sick of experts can reply of these intellectual heavyweights to perform surgery etc

stupot07 · Jul 3, 2016

Astute said:
Did you follow the debates?

It was the remain side that lied about immigration. And it was Farage that said he would put some of the money into the NHS that it costs us to be in the EU. Thankfully he will never be in a position to decide what money goes where.

Here's an official Vote Leave banner on a bus. So its not just farage saying it

Yes I followed the debates, and yes all sides lied, but its clear that most brexit voters voted mainly on immigration and the understanding that by coming out the EU we would have more control and a lot less immigration, and leaving the single market was central to the their campaign, they're all starting to backtrack.

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2016/06/how-brexit-campaign-lied-us-and-got-away-it

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

skybluetony176 · Jul 3, 2016

Sick Boy said:
At least the likes of Johnson, Gove, Griffin, Farage Putin, Le Pen, Trump and Salvini got their wish.

I wonder how many people would trust any of them to babysit their children.

Grendel · Jul 3, 2016

martcov said:
You keep on about being called a racist, why? I have never said you were. I don't doubt that racists voted for the side that promised to control the flow of foreigners coming in. That doesn't mean that 17m leave voters are racists, altough some are.

Because you repeatedly infer that a large percentage are racist.

I'm sure plenty of London stockbrokers and bankers are deeply racist and also I'm sure they voted remain as it is there vested interest in doing so.

Grendel · Jul 3, 2016

skybluetony176 said:
I wonder how many people would trust any of them to babysit their children.

At least they might not leave them in a pub on their own and drive off without them.

Sick Boy · Jul 3, 2016

We are still aiming to leave and the racism that my girlfriend has experienced before and after the vote has confirmed it. She knows of 5 others from the EU who are leaving the UK and going to work in another country as they don't feel welcome. Still, at least that means there will be less foreigners and when cuts come into public services and there is a recession there will be less coming here.

Astute · Jul 3, 2016

martcov said:
So they cannot be racist then?

So they are being racist against people like themselves?

mrtrench · Jul 3, 2016

Grendel said:
Because you repeatedly infer that a large percentage are racist.

I'm sure plenty of London stockbrokers and bankers are deeply racist .

Not so. The City is multi-cultural and people are respected for their performance and nothing else. In almost every department of any bank you will find almost the majority are non-UK-WASP. I've worked with people across the globe and never heard a single person mutter anything about race.

King of the Lesbians · Jul 3, 2016

martcov said:
more people think they made a mistake in the leave camp than the remain camp.

Is that true?

Astute · Jul 3, 2016

martcov said:
I am getting my EU citizenship and remaining. I feel sorry for the UK.

Remaining in Germany?

Astute · Jul 3, 2016

Sick Boy said:
It was long ago that they were claiming that mi5 were planning to rig the result in remain''s favour. I'm just grateful that I still have EU citizenship and can escape.

Why wait? If Italy is doing so well in the EU, your partner comes from there and you love the place so much what are you doing in England?

Sick Boy · Jul 3, 2016

Astute said:
Why wait? If Italy is doing so well in the EU, your partner comes from there and you love the place so much what are you doing in England?

We have jobs that we need to give notice for and we rent, so have to give notice on that as well.

No comment on the racism that she has experienced then?

Astute · Jul 3, 2016

martcov said:
You are right to say the EU is not the be all and end all, it is however the safest bet and geographically a logical trading area.

Whatever happens long term, we are entering a voluntarily recession. The economy will suffer and people will lose their jobs. The racist attacks and insults have shown the sense of national selfishness that has been supressed by being a member of a multi national entity. That may rise more quickly now.

I would have taken the status quo.

You are only guessing which way everything will go but state it as fact. The stock market was supposedly in meltdown until it recovered after a few days.

And for the insults. There has been many more insults from the remain side than the leave side.

skybluetony176 · Jul 3, 2016

Astute said:
Why wait? If Italy is doing so well in the EU, your partner comes from there and you love the place so much what are you doing in England?

In other words if you don't like it get out of my country.

Astute · Jul 3, 2016

Sick Boy said:
We have jobs that we need to give notice for and we rent, so have to give notice on that as well.

No comment on the racism that she has experienced then?

Hand in your notice and go if you feel so strongly. So why are you in England if Italy is doing so well and as you say you will do well there?

Astute · Jul 3, 2016

skybluetony176 said:
In other words if you don't like it get out of my country.

What a load of bollocks. He keeps going on about how well he will get on in Italy. He said he will go if we voted out. Now he does nothing but moan.

Sick Boy · Jul 3, 2016

Astute said:
Hand in your notice and go if you feel so strongly. So why are you in England if Italy is doing so well and as you say you will do well there?

I have already said that we intend to move several times. Still no comments on the racism she has experienced, I can't think why.

Sick Boy · Jul 3, 2016

Astute said:
What a load of bollocks. He keeps going on about how well he will get on in Italy. He said he will go if we voted out. Now he does nothing but moan.

It's only been just over a week since the vote and I have hardly been on the forum recently so I'm not sure how I've been doing 'nothing but moan'.

Sick Boy · Jul 3, 2016

skybluetony176 said:
In other words if you don't like it get out of my country.

Exactly and sums up what my girlfriend and other EU citizens habe had to put up with since the leave vote.

skybluetony176 · Jul 3, 2016

Astute said:
You are only guessing which way everything will go but state it as fact. The stock market was supposedly in meltdown until it recovered after a few days.

And for the insults. There has been many more insults from the remain side than the leave side.

You need to look at what bank shares and the pound are doing against the dollar before you start counting your chickens on that one. Until they've recovered to pre referendum levels and stabilise at that point the FTSE remains vulnerable. You also have to consider what assurances the bank of England have had to give to facilitate what recovery we have seen. That in itself is a problem and an indication of how vulnerable the FTSE is.

skybluetony176 · Jul 3, 2016

Astute said:
Hand in your notice and go if you feel so strongly. So why are you in England if Italy is doing so well and as you say you will do well there?

And again. If you don't like it get out of my country.

Astute · Jul 3, 2016

CCFC Germany said:
No. But claiming that every foreigner is a potential terrorist does.

Why do those who were in favour of us remaining in the EU continue with lies to make others look thick or racist? Or would you like to show any posts where I have said anything like what you say.

Astute · Jul 3, 2016

Sick Boy said:
I have already said that we intend to move several times. Still no comments on the racism she has experienced, I can't think why.

So we only have racist idiots because we voted out of the EU?

Kingokings204 · Jul 3, 2016

I don't get how it is nasty to say well leave then to Italy. If you like it so much and it's much better than here as we voted out then surely it's just common sense to go? Italy will have its share of idiots btw. What's nasty about that? If I was in a job of constant shit and it was affecting my life. Surely I would find another job.

Tony, you said you were thinking of moving to New Zealand? That's good we vote out of the eu and you decide not even to stay in it yourself. Come on, think about it. Sounds ridiculous. At least sick boy wants to stay in the eu. Makes much more sense to me doesn't it kiwi Tone.

P.S sick boy, genuinely sorry for your abuse and I take what you say as genuine. It happened before and after the European referendum. For me this has and will always happen as there will always be morons in this world. Just like football, however hard we try they will always be a few idiots. I don't know what to say. Again very sorry to hear it.

Astute · Jul 3, 2016

skybluetony176 said:
You need to look at what bank shares and the pound are doing against the dollar before you start counting your chickens on that one. Until they've recovered to pre referendum levels and stabilise at that point the FTSE remains vulnerable. You also have to consider what assurances the bank of England have had to give to facilitate what recovery we have seen. That in itself is a problem and an indication of how vulnerable the FTSE is.

Bank shares have been weak since the economists got it wrong that you believe. The pound has been weak against the dollar for years. And the bank of England said interest rates would go up if we voted out. Now they say they will go down. And they are supposed to know what is going on.

Sick Boy · Jul 3, 2016

Astute said:
So we only have racist idiots because we voted out of the EU?

No idea how you got to that conclusion.

Sick Boy · Jul 3, 2016

Kingokings204 said:
I don't get how it is nasty to say well leave then to Italy. If you like it so much and it's much better than here as we voted out then surely it's just common sense to go? Italy will have its share of idiots btw. What's nasty about that? If I was in a job of constant shit and it was affecting my life. Surely I would find another job.

Tony, you said you were thinking of moving to New Zealand? That's good we vote out of the eu and you decide not even to stay in it yourself. Come on, think about it. Sounds ridiculous. At least sick boy wants to stay in the eu. Makes much more sense to me doesn't it kiwi Tone.

P.S sick boy, genuinely sorry for your abuse and I take what you say as genuine. It happened before and after the European referendum. For me this has and will always happen as there will always be morons in this world. Just like football, however hard we try they will always be a few idiots. I don't know what to say. Again very sorry to hear it.

Thank you, I appreciate your kind words.

CCFC Germany · Jul 3, 2016

Astute said:
Why do those who were in favour of us remaining in the EU continue with lies to make others look thick or racist? Or would you like to show any posts where I have said anything like what you say.

Who says I meant you ?

Kingokings204 · Jul 3, 2016

Astute said:
Bank shares have been weak since the economists got it wrong that you believe. The pound has been weak against the dollar for years. And the bank of England said interest rates would go up if we voted out. Now they say they will go down. And they are supposed to know what is going on.

Spot on. Proving in fact there was lies from both sides. To pick and chose what was correct and what was a lie is nonsensical. It was always going to happen. It was for people to decide for themselves. The pound has been in a bare market since July 2014. Things go up and down.

Some one said earlier that the people didn't really know what they were voting for? Because you didn't get the result you wanted. Come on man. So people didn't know about the general election last year and so on and so on. It's ridiculous. And era say you are right and they didn't know the argument is false anyway as that should be for our politicians to make it clear. Either way it's not the people's fault. But don't be patronizing, people knew exactly what they were voting for.

skybluetony176 · Jul 3, 2016

Astute said:
Bank shares have been weak since the economists got it wrong that you believe. The pound has been weak against the dollar for years. And the bank of England said interest rates would go up if we voted out. Now they say they will go down. And they are supposed to know what is going on.

Who said that I believe the economist or even been listening to them. It's called a memory and I remember in the last recession the indicator that it was about to hit was the banks and house building companies taking a hit on their shares. It's happened again and like last time when the FTSE as a whole showed signs of recovery the banks and house builders continued to struggle. You'd be an idiot to ignore that.

The pound hasn't been this weak for many many years, hitting 31 year lows twice in a week. Again, you'd be an idiot to ignore that. The dollar is the biggest trading currency in the world and that is why interest rates have been cut. Prices are about to go up for the consumer on pretty much everything and the cut in the interest rates is an attempt to encourage people to keep spending. We're a consumer based economy reliant on importing. The BOE has to do anything it can to encourage spending in an attempt to keep the economy moving and cutting interest rates is the easiest way to do that.

SIR ERNIE · Jul 3, 2016

Hilarious.

People whinging they've been racially abused in the UK in the last week (don't believe a word of it personally) are running off to Germany and Italy.

Not much right wing racism there then is there.

chiefdave · Jul 3, 2016

Kingokings204 said:
Some one said earlier that the people didn't really know what they were voting for? Because you didn't get the result you wanted. Come on man. So people didn't know about the general election last year and so on and so on.

Do you really believe every person who casts a vote has studied in detail the policies of all those standing and has a complete understanding of them? Or is it more likely that only a very small proportion do that and the rest rely on soundbites, the media or even just voting for who they have always voted for?

It becomes a problem when you are in a situation, as has developed in this country, where the vast majority of the media are on the same side.

There was some research done after the last general election, think it might have been Manchester Uni who carried it out. They took a huge cross section of voters and looked at who they had voted for and then questioned them on various policies, asking them which most closely aligned with their views. The results of that were nothing like the results of who had actually been voted for.

Kingokings204 · Jul 3, 2016

chiefdave said:
Do you really believe every person who casts a vote has studied in detail the policies of all those standing and has a complete understanding of them? Or is it more likely that only a very small proportion do that and the rest rely on soundbites, the media or even just voting for who they have always voted for?

It becomes a problem when you are in a situation, as has developed in this country, where the vast majority of the media are on the same side.

There was some research done after the last general election, think it might have been Manchester Uni who carried it out. They took a huge cross section of voters and looked at who they had voted for and then questioned them on various policies, asking them which most closely aligned with their views. The results of that were nothing like the results of who had actually been voted for.

I happen to agree with your post but I Don't get what you point is?

The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (11 Viewers)

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