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The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (20 Viewers)

  • Thread starter jimmyhillsfanclub
  • Start date Jun 8, 2016
Forums New posts

As of right now, how are thinking of voting? In or out

  • Remain

    Votes: 23 37.1%
  • Leave

    Votes: 35 56.5%
  • Undecided

    Votes: 3 4.8%
  • Not registered or not intention to vote

    Votes: 1 1.6%

  • Total voters
    62
  • Poll closed Jun 15, 2016.
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M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 3, 2018
  • #15,786
Grendel said:
Nope. To get the referendum only one party offered it and they got a majority beyond all expectations.

The party in the election offering a pro Europe vision was battered into oblivion.

So if it’s elections that matter then the result was the same - a desire to vote on Europe followed by a desire to leave
Click to expand...

Are you now claiming that Labour and the Tories stood on a one theme platform? Leave? You know damn well that the election wasn’t a referendum. You know that neither Labour not the Tories are 100% behind Brexit. Even looking at the voting figures, you can see that millions of remainers voted either labour or conservative presumably for other reasons than Brexit.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 3, 2018
  • #15,787
martcov said:
Well yes it does. Not all leavers are ill informed racists. Some obviously are. Not all remainers were well informed. But, as he says, we would be economically better off remaining. The sovereignty we have regained is not that much as we controlled all major decisions anyway. We went to war. We could have sent EU citizens back after 3 months if they couldn’t support themselves. We could have controlled non EU migration, as an island we had border controls. We have our own currency. And so on and so on. Any trade deals we sign in the future will have give and take aspects which take some form of sovereignty from us. It was never about most of the people who voted leave. It was about dodgy nationalists such as Farage, dodgy tax evaders such as Ashcroft and various hedge fund owners and managers. At the end they ( a large portion of leave voters ) will have won some sovereignty, but be economically worse off at least in the short term ( as is now being admitted by leading leavers).

Now it’s all about the Tory party and we have no clear alternative.

So chaps, was it all worth it?
Click to expand...
Would be better off?

I know you are more German than British. But how do you know the final result of what will happen? How do you know better than the professors that disagree with you and disagreed with the pro EU lot on what would happen if we voted leave? Because it wasn't the pro EU lot that got it right then either.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 3, 2018
  • #15,788
martcov said:
What part of sovereignty have you gained? Is the risk of an economic loss - confirmed by leading leavers - a price you want to pay? If leavers think that an economic hit is worth it for, say, deregulation of the curvature of bananas, that would be fine by me... if they were the only people to take a hit. Very heroic. Not heroic is forcing the remaining population to join them in taking a possible hit for regaining a small portion of sovereignty which may have to be traded in again to some extent in future trade deals.
Click to expand...
Confirmed by leading leavers?

Who are they and what did they say?
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 3, 2018
  • #15,789
martcov said:
A bit of wealth does help though.

You missed this on the Reiters site:
MPs ask Hammond and Carney for Brexit impact studies

I would like to know who the losers will be. I suspect I know the winners.
Click to expand...
Oh yes Carney.

The one who is never wrong other than the previous times he has been wrong. Just like what would happen if we voted leave.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 3, 2018
  • #15,790
martcov said:
I answered that. You ignore the answer and ask Tony.
Click to expand...
So what was your answer?
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 3, 2018
  • #15,791
martcov said:
Are you now claiming that Labour and the Tories stood on a one theme platform? Leave? You know damn well that the election wasn’t a referendum. You know that neither Labour not the Tories are 100% behind Brexit. Even looking at the voting figures, you can see that millions of remainers voted either labour or conservative presumably for other reasons than Brexit.
Click to expand...

Wasn’t as an important issue as you make out then and I’m talking about the election under Cameron - they had a differentiation as they offered a referendum. Which they got abd they gave an answer.
 
S

SkyblueBazza

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 3, 2018
  • #15,792
martcov said:
Claiming that the nation wants Brexit is simply not true.
Click to expand...
Well I can certainly claim the nation does not want to be in the EU...otherwise we wouldn't be leaving

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
 
Reactions: Astute
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 3, 2018
  • #15,793
Astute said:
Would be better off?

I know you are more German than British. But how do you know the final result of what will happen? How do you know better than the professors that disagree with you and disagreed with the pro EU lot on what would happen if we voted leave? Because it wasn't the pro EU lot that got it right then either.
Click to expand...

I agree with the majority including business, economics experts, the BofE, the port of Dover, the hauliers, HMRC, the Treasury and many others.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 3, 2018
  • #15,794
martcov said:
I am not playing with numbers. The nation is not behind Brexit. It wasn’t on the day leave won and it definitely isn’t now.

Leave won a vote, but they didn’t have the nation behind them. It was a narrow win, not an overwhelming victory.
Click to expand...
How would you know? You haven't lived here since I was a kid. I am now a grandparent. You only read pro EU propaganda and ignore the rest.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 3, 2018
  • #15,795
martcov said:
I agree with the majority including business, economics experts, the BofE, the port of Dover, the hauliers, HMRC, the Treasury and many others.
Click to expand...
So 100% of everyone agrees with you?

Then you expect us to take you seriously.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 3, 2018
  • #15,796
SkyblueBazza said:
Well I can certainly claim the nation does not want to be in the EU...otherwise we wouldn't be leaving

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

No you cannot say that. We are leaving because 17,4 million want to, not because everyone else has automatically changed their mind and now wants to leave.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 3, 2018
  • #15,797
Astute said:
So 100% of everyone agrees with you?

Then you expect us to take you seriously.
Click to expand...

I didn’t say that. You made it up. As usual.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 3, 2018
  • #15,798
Anyhow. Meantime back in the real world the Chamber of Commerce has asked questions of the governments plans for a trade deal. I’m sure we can dismiss them as lefties though so for the lefties of us who are interested here’s some links to the hard questions

British Chambers of Commerce - Brexit: time running out for answers to firms’ real-world questions, says BCC

http://www.britishchambers.org.uk/Brexit Practicalities Scorecard Final.pdf
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 3, 2018
  • #15,799
Astute said:
How would you know? You haven't lived here since I was a kid. I am now a grandparent. You only read pro EU propaganda and ignore the rest.
Click to expand...

We don’t have pro and anti EU papers here. We didn’t have this debate as we didn’t have a referendum.
 
S

SkyblueBazza

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 3, 2018
  • #15,800
martcov said:
The bananas argument comes from the leave side. Apparently that is an example of Brussels imposing it’s will on the U.K..
Click to expand...
Really, as I had it explained to me by a very strong EU supporter...it was designed to protect EU Banana producers from cheaper imported ones from elsewhere...protectionism another one to add to the list

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 3, 2018
  • #15,801
Astute said:
Oh yes Carney.

The one who is never wrong other than the previous times he has been wrong. Just like what would happen if we voted leave.
Click to expand...

He wasn’t completely wrong though. He had to pump money in to save the pound and therefore the economy. The BoE reacted, if they hadn’t have we would be in worse trouble.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 3, 2018
  • #15,802
martcov said:
He wasn’t completely wrong though. He had to pump money in to save the pound and therefore the economy. The BoE reacted, if they hadn’t have we would be in worse trouble.
Click to expand...

I think you’ve spent too much time reading the £9 million leaflet
 
S

SkyblueBazza

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 3, 2018
  • #15,803
martcov said:
No you cannot say that. We are leaving because 17,4 million want to, not because everyone else has automatically changed their mind and now wants to leave.
Click to expand...
Circles as well as bananas then.

Those that didn't vote were doing so in the full knowledge that they would be going along with the end result...so they are ok with leaving

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 3, 2018
  • #15,804
SkyblueBazza said:
Really, as I had it explained to me by a very strong EU supporter...it was designed to protect EU Banana producers from cheaper imported ones from elsewhere...protectionism another one to add to the list

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Oh, I see. Then you will be pleased to see our farmers asking for the dropping all EU farming regulations. NFU advised it’s members to vote remain. I wonder why.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 3, 2018
  • #15,805
martcov said:
Oh, I see. Then you will be pleased to see our farmers asking for the dropping all EU farming regulations. NFU advised it’s members to vote remain. I wonder why.
Click to expand...

Classic.

Because they are a mutual society and conducted a referendum of their membership - 52% votes remain so they adopted the will of the membership

You and Tony are truly gifts that never stop giving
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 3, 2018
  • #15,806
martcov said:
No you cannot say that. We are leaving because 17,4 million want to, not because everyone else has automatically changed their mind and now wants to leave.
Click to expand...
So 1.3m more voted leave than remain. Yet you know that more wanted to remain than stay?

So how do you work that out?
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 3, 2018
  • #15,807
martcov said:
We don’t have pro and anti EU papers here. We didn’t have this debate as we didn’t have a referendum.
Click to expand...
That is because the EU is set up to benefit Germany more than anyone else.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 3, 2018
  • #15,808
martcov said:
He wasn’t completely wrong though. He had to pump money in to save the pound and therefore the economy. The BoE reacted, if they hadn’t have we would be in worse trouble.
Click to expand...
Did he?

I suppose house prices would have crashed, the unemployment rate would gave shot up, share prices would nosedive and the UK would have become a 3rd world place. Just what Carney said would happen.

So what you are saying is that after we Leave the EU Carney will pump money in. Then house prices will continue to go up, share prices will continue to go up and we will continue to have record employment?

No. Of course not. What you say only works one way in your world.
 
Reactions: SkyblueBazza

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 3, 2018
  • #15,809
martcov said:
Oh, I see. Then you will be pleased to see our farmers asking for the dropping all EU farming regulations. NFU advised it’s members to vote remain. I wonder why.
Click to expand...
We kept up with EU regulations with farming. Are you going to tell us all that the other countries in the EU did the same?
 

jimmyhillsfanclub

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 3, 2018
  • #15,810
martcov said:
NFU advised it’s members to vote remain. I wonder why.
Click to expand...

Whats that you say......a corporate agribusiness lobby group, which guzzles public money in order to push the globalised agenda of mega-producers directly to the detriment of the little guy, the public & the environment, wanted to stay on the EU gravy train.......well i never....
 
Reactions: SkyblueBazza

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 3, 2018
  • #15,811
Grendel said:
Classic.

Because they are a mutual society and conducted a referendum of their membership - 52% votes remain so they adopted the will of the membership

You and Tony are truly gifts that never stop giving
Click to expand...
No comment on the 24 questions that the chamber of commerce has released? Maybe you’d like to share your expert opinion on each point?
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 3, 2018
  • #15,812
skybluetony176 said:
No comment on the 24 questions that the chamber of commerce has released? Maybe you’d like to share your expert opinion on each point?
Click to expand...

You ever been to a chamber of commerce meeting Tony?
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 3, 2018
  • #15,813
Grendel said:
You ever been to a chamber of commerce meeting Tony?
Click to expand...

Not sure why that’s relevant to the 24 questions but seeing as you ask yes I have. Everytime we need a C of O and/or commercial invoices and packing lists legalising by the chamber of commerce for export jobs. I’m not going to ask you if you have because it’s irrelevant to the 24 questions that they’re asking the government. Distraction obviously needed because you don’t understand any of the 24 questions that they’ve asked. If by chance you do how about you stop being a penis and add something to a debate rather than going out of your way to ensure one doesn’t happen.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 3, 2018
  • #15,814
SkyblueBazza said:
Circles as well as bananas then.

Those that didn't vote were doing so in the full knowledge that they would be going along with the end result...so they are ok with leaving

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

No. Some of them thought we would vote remain so didn’t bother voting.

jimmyhillsfanclub said:
Whats that you say......a corporate agribusiness lobby group, which guzzles public money in order to push the globalised agenda of mega-producers directly to the detriment of the little guy, the public & the environment, wanted to stay on the EU gravy train.......well i never....
Click to expand...

Which is what I was pointing out
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 3, 2018
  • #15,815
Astute said:
That is because the EU is set up to benefit Germany more than anyone else.
Click to expand...

Yes of course it is.., ask the Daily Express they’ll confirm it.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 3, 2018
  • #15,816
Astute said:
So 1.3m more voted leave than remain. Yet you know that more wanted to remain than stay?

So how do you work that out?
Click to expand...

I didn’t say that. You made it up. As usual.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 3, 2018
  • #15,817
Astute said:
Did he?

I suppose house prices would have crashed, the unemployment rate would gave shot up, share prices would nosedive and the UK would have become a 3rd world place. Just what Carney said would happen.

So what you are saying is that after we Leave the EU Carney will pump money in. Then house prices will continue to go up, share prices will continue to go up and we will continue to have record employment?

No. Of course not. What you say only works one way in your world.
Click to expand...

I am saying that after we leave without a deal, if that happens, the BoE will have to react as there will be a crisis. I wouldn’t mind betting that some hedge funds have already taken a position on that and are campaigning for a no deal situation.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 3, 2018
  • #15,818
Grendel said:
Classic.

Because they are a mutual society and conducted a referendum of their membership - 52% votes remain so they adopted the will of the membership

You and Tony are truly gifts that never stop giving
Click to expand...

Their advice is based on an opinion poll?
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 3, 2018
  • #15,819
Astute said:
We kept up with EU regulations with farming. Are you going to tell us all that the other countries in the EU did the same?
Click to expand...

No, I am saying they advise remain .. presumably to keep up this protectionism and there is no way they are not lobbying to keep it that way. So no change there if we leave.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 3, 2018
  • #15,820
Grendel said:
You ever been to a chamber of commerce meeting Tony?
Click to expand...

You ever answered a question on topic or without another question?
 
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