The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (20 Viewers)

martcov · Jul 1, 2018

Astute said:
You certainly are making this up. It is the EU that doesn't seem to care about business.

So locking up migrants which is against human rights isn't a bad thing? And as you can see it is all over the press and internet. And I posted links to the Guardian. They explain it very well. And mainly to protect Merkel. Or is the Guardian lying and making it up?

The EU does care about business.

Merkel has fought against the idea of these camps the whole time. The camps are for illegal immigrants. And processing legally is different. There is a difference. The right wing parties in Europe which you constantly mention, are pressuring Merkel. The CSU has given her a deadline to get something done... all to do with state elections in Bavaria in October. Which I have mentioned before.

So, as usual, you are putting words into my mouth and twisting things round to slag off Germany. You are the one for borders. That’s Brexit policy. That means camps if you don’t let „them“ in and can’t send „them“ back. I use „them“ as you seem to prefer that as depersonalisation makes these things easier to stomach for you guys.

martcov · Jul 1, 2018

Astute said:
Well the EU is about to lock up migrants to help Merkel. Yet they never do anything to help Germany you say.....

Yet the UK couldn't even get a meeting.

What meeting? The UK wanted to solve the refugee problem in Italy? Are you sure that is why Cameron wanted a meeting? The EU needs a consensus on migration. Not just Merkel. You are obsessed with individuals and not with what is going on. Merkel is not the Queen of The EU and Juncker is not the King. Neither has the power you claim. You read the Express and Mail and actually believe them. Your arguments come from these rags.

Astute · Jul 1, 2018

martcov said:
The story is of incompetence

That is not the same as deliberately abusing human rights.

It doesn’t help the victims to know that, but it is unfair to use it as an example of EU human rights abuse.

Incompetence? They know they have the wrong people. But it is a vote winner. And it is happening in Italy.

So locking up people you know are not guilty and trying to get them minimum of a very long prison sentence isn't deliberately abusing human rights?

So how much more evidence do you need before you stop trying to say that the EU should be doing more? I can guarantee that you and the EU would be all over it and having a right go if the UK was doing the same to people we know are not guilty of doing anything. But it is Italy. The EU is allowing it to happen as they don't have a clue what to do next. Their only plan is to imprison migrants. And this is against human rights. The same human rights that you have said countless times are at risk if and when we leave the EU.

And you say the EU doesn't make it up as they go along.

martcov · Jul 1, 2018

Astute said:
The EU has been allowing it. They know all about it. So do several countries in the EU. Read it again.

You are quick to defend human rights in the UK. The EU is right to intervene if it happens in the UK. But it is someone else's fault if it happens elsewhere in the EU. So nobody is guilty of anything.

What are you on about now? Your are conclusion is made up as usual.

„They know all about it“. What do they know exactly? Who are they? The parliament? The Council? The commission? The European Court? When were they informed, by whom and what did they say ( whoever they are )?

I‘d like to see the statement saying „yes, sure lock up the wrong people, that’s in the EU charter of rights“. Or similar will do. Post the link.

Astute · Jul 1, 2018

martcov said:
The EU does care about business.

Merkel has fought against the idea of these camps the whole time. The camps are for illegal immigrants. And processing legally is different. There is a difference. The right wing parties in Europe which you constantly mention, are pressuring Merkel. The CSU has given her a deadline to get something done... all to do with state elections in Bavaria in October. Which I have mentioned before.

So, as usual, you are putting words into my mouth and twisting things round to slag off Germany. You are the one for borders. That’s Brexit policy. That means camps if you don’t let „them“ in and can’t send „them“ back. I use „them“ as you seem to prefer that as depersonalisation makes these things easier to stomach for you guys.

Bullshit. Merkel wants them. Look at the links and read them. All the northern EU countries want them. Italy threatened to veto everything unless they got help. The only help on offer is these prison camps. Yet nobody so far is willing to have them although they are being offered money to have them.

And as you say the other 27 countries of the EU are fully united.....

martcov · Jul 1, 2018

Astute said:
Incompetence? They know they have the wrong people. But it is a vote winner. And it is happening in Italy.

So locking up people you know are not guilty and trying to get them minimum of a very long prison sentence isn't deliberately abusing human rights?

So how much more evidence do you need before you stop trying to say that the EU should be doing more? I can guarantee that you and the EU would be all over it and having a right go if the UK was doing the same to people we know are not guilty of doing anything. But it is Italy. The EU is allowing it to happen as they don't have a clue what to do next. Their only plan is to imprison migrants. And this is against human rights. The same human rights that you have said countless times are at risk if and when we leave the EU.

And you say the EU doesn't make it up as they go along.

No they don’t make it up.

You are quoting something that is illegal and going on in Italy. It is not EU policy.

I hope the people who know about this are taking the people ( politicians? Police?)committing these crimes to court.

You are the big borders fan. Not me. Not Merkel, but you and the right wing people you ally with. You say living in another country is „just wrong“. Your exact words referring to FOM. The right are taking control of migration. Expect plenty more of the same. „Hostile environment“ is what the UK calls it.

Enjoy.

Astute · Jul 1, 2018

martcov said:
What meeting? The UK wanted to solve the refugee problem in Italy? Are you sure that is why Cameron wanted a meeting? The EU needs a consensus on migration. Not just Merkel. You are obsessed with individuals and not with what is going on. Merkel is not the Queen of The EU and Juncker is not the King. Neither has the power you claim. You read the Express and Mail and actually believe them. Your arguments come from these rags.

Oh yes twisting words will make the EU look innocent. If only.

I was reading the Guardian. All the links were from the Guardian. It isn't an argument. It is stating facts. Facts you can't deny. Germany wants them. The EU wants them. They debated about it all weekend. Yet you will try to make out that it is nothing to do with the EU or Germany.

So is the Guardian on your banned list as well now?

martcov · Jul 1, 2018

Astute said:
Bullshit. Merkel wants them. Look at the links and read them. All the northern EU countries want them. Italy threatened to veto everything unless they got help. The only help on offer is these prison camps. Yet nobody so far is willing to have them although they are being offered money to have them.

And as you say the other 27 countries of the EU are fully united.....

Bullshit. Where did I say the other 27 countries are united? I’ll give you my password and you can write my side for me. Then I don’t have to keep denying the things you say I say.

Astute · Jul 1, 2018

martcov said:
No they don’t make it up.

You are quoting something that is illegal and going on in Italy. It is not EU policy.

I hope the people who know about this are taking the people ( politicians? Police?)committing these crimes to court.

You are the big borders fan. Not me. Not Merkel, but you and the right wing people you ally with. You say living in another country is „just wrong“. Your exact words referring to FOM. The right are taking control of migration. Expect plenty more of the same. „Hostile environment“ is what the UK calls it.

Enjoy.

So you are ignoring all the evidence off every news outlet or you don't understand English. Which one is it?

Astute · Jul 1, 2018

martcov said:
Bullshit. Where did I say the other 27 countries are united? I’ll give you my password and you can write my side for me. Then I don’t have to keep denying the things you say I say.

Countless times.

martcov · Jul 1, 2018

Astute said:
Oh yes twisting words will make the EU look innocent. If only.

I was reading the Guardian. All the links were from the Guardian. It isn't an argument. It is stating facts. Facts you can't deny. Germany wants them. The EU wants them. They debated about it all weekend. Yet you will try to make out that it is nothing to do with the EU or Germany.

So is the Guardian on your banned list as well now?

The right wants them. The right won, with the left, in Italy and the right and extreme right are in power in Austria. The right are also blackmailing May in England and you can bet your arse there are plenty in Britain who would build camps and throw the keys away.

martcov · Jul 1, 2018

Astute said:
Countless times.

Bollocks. With the possible exception of dealing with Brexit. But that is not 100%.

martcov · Jul 1, 2018

Astute said:
So you are ignoring all the evidence off every news outlet or you don't understand English. Which one is it?

No, I am saying it is not EU policy, nor EU law to mistakenly identify Eritrean cow herds etc..

martcov · Jul 1, 2018

Astute said:
So you are ignoring all the evidence off every news outlet or you don't understand English. Which one is it?

I understand English and I presume you do, but I think you have comprehension problems. Especially with longer reports as you don’t always read them through to the end.

I don’t ban any newspapers. I actually look at the rags now and again to see where you guys get your arguments. As you say the reader‘s comments you read ( in the Express I presume ) are all similar to yours on here. That’s how I can tell where you’re coming from.

Astute · Jul 1, 2018

martcov said:
The right wants them. The right won, with the left, in Italy and the right and extreme right are in power in Austria. The right are also blackmailing May in England and you can bet your arse there are plenty in Britain who would build camps and throw the keys away.

Marts logic.

Some people in the UK would do it if they could. So it is OK for the EU to lock people up for no reason other than being a migrant.

Astute · Jul 1, 2018

martcov said:
Bollocks. With the possible exception of dealing with Brexit. But that is not 100%.

Exactly. Not 100% on anything. The whole thing is fractured. That is not from me before you accuse me of anti EU propaganda. That is from the Guardian.

skybluetony176 · Jul 1, 2018

Astute said:
Marts logic.

Some people in the UK would do it if they could. So it is OK for the EU to lock people up for no reason other than being a migrant.

We do do it. There are several immigration detention centres in the U.K.

Astute · Jul 1, 2018

martcov said:
No, I am saying it is not EU policy, nor EU law to mistakenly identify Eritrean cow herds etc..

You have told us countless times how important the EU is to human rights. Yet they do nothing. Now they have come out with a plan that is totally against human rights. Yet it is nothing to do with the EU.

Astute · Jul 1, 2018

martcov said:
I understand English and I presume you do, but I think you have comprehension problems. Especially with longer reports as you don’t always read them through to the end.

I don’t ban any newspapers. I actually look at the rags now and again to see where you guys get your arguments. As you say the reader‘s comments you read ( in the Express I presume ) are all similar to yours on here. That’s how I can tell where you’re coming from.

So what is wrong with the Guardian? Because you are even trying to say that the editor has got it totally wrong.

Astute · Jul 1, 2018

skybluetony176 said:
We do do it. There are several immigration detention centres in the U.K.

They are for people that have no right to be here. The pro EU lot say we have the right to send back people that shouldn't be here.

The detention centres the EU wants are even for people who are escaping war and persecution. They are for everyone from outside the EU. They are for men, women and children. They are for people who have done nothing wrong.

But as usual some will defend the EU whatever.

martcov · Jul 1, 2018

Astute said:
Marts logic.

Some people in the UK would do it if they could. So it is OK for the EU to lock people up for no reason other than being a migrant.

I didn’t say it is ok to lock people up who are innocent of a crime. You made that up.

Astute · Jul 1, 2018

So Mart. You championed Germany for taking in 1m people. You said it was the right thing to do.

Now to save Merkels neck they are doing the total opposite. So now doing the opposite of what was the right thing to do is something to make excuses for. Yet the migrant level has gone down well over 90%.

Astute · Jul 1, 2018

martcov said:
I didn’t say it is ok to lock people up who are innocent of a crime. You made that up.

So why defend it or make excuses for it? Why can't you say it is an absolute disgrace what the EU is planning to do?

martcov · Jul 1, 2018

Astute said:
So why defend it or make excuses for it? Why can't you say it is an absolute disgrace what the EU is planning to do?

Merkel nannte die Einigung der 28 Staats- und Regierungschefs eine "gute Botschaft". Es warte zwar noch eine Menge Arbeit am gemeinsamen europäischen Asylsystem. "Aber ich bin optimistisch nach dem heutigen Tag, dass wir wirklich weiter arbeiten können", sagte die CDU-Chefin.

28 States agreed. The U.K. is one of them. It was caused by pressure from Italy and the right wing Eastern European States... and the U.K. is for it. The details will be examined over the next 4 weeks. So, it isn’t a disgrace and the consensus was welcomed by the UN. It is a step forward to getting a common policy. What do you suggest as a solution? You don’t even want ‚them‘ anywhere near you. What we had in 2015 was criticised by Brexiteers and used in a poster ( copy of a 30s Nazi poster, but with Arabs instead of Jews pouring in ) ‚Breaking Point‘ which had a massive fear effect on people who voted leave. Now you are coming as the humanitarian person to attack the EU from the other side. Not long ago you were with the „mad Merkel“ crowd because she didn’t stop refugees. Make your mind up.Either Merkel is mad for not putting the refugees in camps until their claims have been processed, or she is mad because she is putting them in camps until their claims have been verified. You just use anything and everything to attack, Merkel, Juncker and the EU. And then you have the audacity to claim to have voted remain …

martcov · Jul 1, 2018

Astute said:
So Mart. You championed Germany for taking in 1m people. You said it was the right thing to do.

Now to save Merkels neck they are doing the total opposite. So now doing the opposite of what was the right thing to do is something to make excuses for. Yet the migrant level has gone down well over 90%.

Merkel always said the refugees were welcome and should be shared with other EU countries. It didn’t happen ( strange as you claim the EU is run by Merkel ), so she has been weakened and has little option but to take what she can out of it. Which she is doing. 14 countries have agreed to take back refugees who were first registered in their country. This is to stop refugees deciding which country they want to stay in. The Dublin agreement is the country where they were first registered. That is the rule and the CSU wants that enforced or they will bring the government down. A bit like the DUP situation in the U.K. The tail is wagging the dog.

Astute · Jul 1, 2018

martcov said:
Merkel nannte die Einigung der 28 Staats- und Regierungschefs eine "gute Botschaft". Es warte zwar noch eine Menge Arbeit am gemeinsamen europäischen Asylsystem. "Aber ich bin optimistisch nach dem heutigen Tag, dass wir wirklich weiter arbeiten können", sagte die CDU-Chefin.

28 States agreed. The U.K. is one of them. It was caused by pressure from Italy and the right wing Eastern European States... and the U.K. is for it. The details will be examined over the next 4 weeks. So, it isn’t a disgrace and the consensus was welcomed by the UN. It is a step forward to getting a common policy. What do you suggest as a solution? You don’t even want ‚them‘ anywhere near you. What we had in 2015 was criticised by Brexiteers and used in a poster ( copy of a 30s Nazi poster, but with Arabs instead of Jews pouring in ) ‚Breaking Point‘ which had a massive fear effect on people who voted leave. Now you are coming as the humanitarian person to attack the EU from the other side. Not long ago you were with the „mad Merkel“ crowd because she didn’t stop refugees. Make your mind up.Either Merkel is mad for not putting the refugees in camps until their claims have been processed, or she is mad because she is putting them in camps until their claims have been verified. You just use anything and everything to attack, Merkel, Juncker and the EU. And then you have the audacity to claim to have voted remain …

It is a disgrace.

So you had to even search German news outlets until you found someone who agrees.

Everyone who has had a hand in this debacle should be ashamed of themselves. From those who had the idea to those who agreed to it. But especially those who pushed it through.

Hopefully you will agree with this as I never mentioned the names Merkel and Juncker. So you don't have to defend them as usual.

chiefdave · Jul 1, 2018

SkyblueBazza said:
Ypu ignore the Beef deal with China & the BAE deal with Australia because it just doesn't fit ypur agenda does it??? They cpuld be just the start...AND could be the very reason the Brexit deal with the EU is not moving at the pace ypu wpuld prefer...we are out there getting the business in instead of talking bollocks with ypur EU cronies

How are either of those related to Brexit?

Reading about the beef deal with China it appears the Chinese have been inspecting facilities around Europe since well before the referendum with a view to lifting the ban. The ban has already been lifted in some EU countries and is expected to be lifted shortly in others.

It seems that we will actually have a 3 year delay as we have to agree a replacement for the EU export process with the Chinese before they will accept our beef. This will give the countries remaining in the EU time to tie up their deals before our exports start.

The BAE deal appears to be their Australian arm and according to BAE will benefit Australia "creating thousands of jobs, supporting new industries and boosting the national supply chain for decades to come".

I'd love to hear some good Brexit news but I'm not sure this is it.

Astute · Jul 1, 2018

martcov said:
Merkel always said the refugees were welcome and should be shared with other EU countries. It didn’t happen ( strange as you claim the EU is run by Merkel ), so she has been weakened and has little option but to take what she can out of it. Which she is doing. 14 countries have agreed to take back refugees who were first registered in their country. This is to stop refugees deciding which country they want to stay in. The Dublin agreement is the country where they were first registered. That is the rule and the CSU wants that enforced or they will bring the government down. A bit like the DUP situation in the U.K. The tail is wagging the dog.

They land in 3 countries mainly. Of course the other 11 can take the kudos for nothing. Just like the Austrian PM said....They will only land there if they come by parachute.

And France and Germany wants nothing to do with helping them. They have publicly said so. They would prefer to close their borders.

Grendel · Jul 1, 2018

martcov said:
A bit like the DUP situation in the U.K. The tail is wagging the dog.

Any examples of that?

martcov · Jul 1, 2018

Grendel said:
Any examples of that?

Yes, the Irish border proposal of a sea border.

martcov · Jul 1, 2018

Astute said:
They land in 3 countries mainly. Of course the other 11 can take the kudos for nothing. Just like the Austrian PM said....They will only land there if they come by parachute.

And France and Germany wants nothing to do with helping them. They have publicly said so. They would prefer to close their borders.

No. They said they prefer a shared burden. Germany and France have taken hundreds of thousands of refugees. And no one landed by parachute in Germany. Any numbers of Britain‘s humanitarian acceptance?

martcov · Jul 1, 2018

Astute said:
It is a disgrace.

So you had to even search German news outlets until you found someone who agrees.

Everyone who has had a hand in this debacle should be ashamed of themselves. From those who had the idea to those who agreed to it. But especially those who pushed it through.

Hopefully you will agree with this as I never mentioned the names Merkel and Juncker. So you don't have to defend them as usual.

Well that means Brexit Britain as well and the people bombing and killing in the ME, Afghanistan and Libya. A lot of guilty parties there. Glad you realise that it is not 2 people who are responsible for everything that is bad in these countries. Yes, I agree that all wars are bad. All refugees should be helped. A consensus is a start.

Astute · Jul 1, 2018

martcov said:
No. They said they prefer a shared burden. Germany and France have taken hundreds of thousands of refugees. And no one landed by parachute in Germany. Any numbers of Britain‘s humanitarian acceptance?

The one thing you always ignore is somehow the German population has stayed steady. The UK population has shot up. England is now one of the most densely populated countries in the world.

Astute · Jul 1, 2018

martcov said:
Well that means Brexit Britain as well and the people bombing and killing in the ME, Afghanistan and Libya. A lot of guilty parties there. Glad you realise that it is not 2 people who are responsible for everything that is bad in these countries. Yes, I agree that all wars are bad. All refugees should be helped. A consensus is a start.

I have not defended the UK at all. You do nothing but defend the EU.

Can you argue against this.

So helping refugees is putting them in holding camps?

Grendel · Jul 1, 2018

martcov said:
Yes, the Irish border proposal of a sea border.

How did that manifest itself into blackmail?

The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (20 Viewers)

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