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The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (9 Viewers)

  • Thread starter jimmyhillsfanclub
  • Start date Jun 8, 2016
Forums New posts

As of right now, how are thinking of voting? In or out

  • Remain

    Votes: 23 37.1%
  • Leave

    Votes: 35 56.5%
  • Undecided

    Votes: 3 4.8%
  • Not registered or not intention to vote

    Votes: 1 1.6%

  • Total voters
    62
  • Poll closed Jun 15, 2016.
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Astute

Well-Known Member
  • May 13, 2018
  • #14,281
skybluetony176 said:
How our taxpayer-rescued banks helped INEOS escape UK taxes

This is a good read also
Click to expand...
And so is this.

Jean-Claude Juncker's real scandal is his tax-haven homeland of Luxembourg
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • May 13, 2018
  • #14,282
Astute said:
So should he stand aside so his shady deals can be looked at like many in the EU want to do?

Of course not. But you want to hang those who took advantage of the tax dodges he made available.

I say look into them all.
Click to expand...

Of course he should. Thanks for answering a question you’ve never asked me before incorrectly on my behalf.

You’re last part I actually agree with. Just as instead of singling Jimmy Carr out for using the K2 tax avoidance scheme Cameron should have publicly named everyone using the loophole. It’s just happened again with Lewis Hamilton and registering his jet on the IOM. He isn’t the only one doing it but he’s the non political public figure lamb to the slaughter. People like your latest role model are allowed to get away with it by governments for political reasons. You didn’t have to look hard to dig dirt on this guy but you think he’s a positive pro brexit role model so you wheeled him out. If you ask me he’s a perfect demonstration of what’s wrong with Brexit and you really shouldn’t really have to question why someone like him is backing it. It ain’t for your benefit that’s for sure. He might sell it that way assuming that you’re gullible enough to swallow it but he’s in it for himself.
 
Reactions: martcov

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • May 13, 2018
  • #14,283
Astute said:
And so is this.

Jean-Claude Juncker's real scandal is his tax-haven homeland of Luxembourg
Click to expand...
I never said it wasn’t. You keep pretending otherwise though if you think it makes you right/better in some way. You can have that on me, I’m a very charitable person like that.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • May 13, 2018
  • #14,284
Astute said:
That is bollox. Try reading without prejudice for once.
Click to expand...

I have. That is what it says.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • May 13, 2018
  • #14,285
Astute said:
And so is this.

Jean-Claude Juncker's real scandal is his tax-haven homeland of Luxembourg
Click to expand...

Look over there....
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • May 13, 2018
  • #14,286
Grendel said:
He sounds like Donald Tusk.

He ticks all those boxes doesn’t he?
Click to expand...

Look over there....

Donald Tusk is not the role model here... Ratcliffe is.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • May 13, 2018
  • #14,287
martcov said:
Look over there....

Donald Tusk is not the role model here... Ratcliffe is.
Click to expand...

What was Tusks view on fracking when in charge of Poland?
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • May 13, 2018
  • #14,288
skybluetony176 said:
Of course he should. Thanks for answering a question you’ve never asked me before incorrectly on my behalf.

You’re last part I actually agree with. Just as instead of singling Jimmy Carr out for using the K2 tax avoidance scheme Cameron should have publicly named everyone using the loophole. It’s just happened again with Lewis Hamilton and registering his jet on the IOM. He isn’t the only one doing it but he’s the non political public figure lamb to the slaughter. People like your latest role model are allowed to get away with it by governments for political reasons. You didn’t have to look hard to dig dirt on this guy but you think he’s a positive pro brexit role model so you wheeled him out. If you ask me he’s a perfect demonstration of what’s wrong with Brexit and you really shouldn’t really have to question why someone like him is backing it. It ain’t for your benefit that’s for sure. He might sell it that way assuming that you’re gullible enough to swallow it but he’s in it for himself.
Click to expand...
For my benefit? As I have always said it looks against everything I need when I retire.

Why is it that you are quick to dish the dirt on anyone who says we can and they think we will do well after leaving. But anyone who is a part of the EU never gets anything unless you are pushed?
 
Reactions: Kingokings204

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • May 13, 2018
  • #14,289
martcov said:
Look over there....

Donald Tusk is not the role model here... Ratcliffe is.
Click to expand...
Tusk.....Juncker......

Suddenly they mean nothing to you as usual. But they are the ones that could mess everything up. And it is what they look like they are planning to do.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • May 13, 2018
  • #14,290
Grendel said:
What was Tusks view on fracking when in charge of Poland?
Click to expand...
Similar to what was Junckers view on defrauding the tax payer when he was in charge of Luxembourg.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • May 13, 2018
  • #14,291
martcov said:
Look over there....

Donald Tusk is not the role model here... Ratcliffe is.
Click to expand...
I thought the role model was Mandelson :smuggrin:
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • May 13, 2018
  • #14,292
Astute said:
For my benefit? As I have always said it looks against everything I need when I retire.

Why is it that you are quick to dish the dirt on anyone who says we can and they think we will do well after leaving. But anyone who is a part of the EU never gets anything unless you are pushed?
Click to expand...

You’re asking the wrong question Astute. The question is why is there dirt on these people. I have never fallen over myself to put Tusk etc. on a pedestal like you have with Jim Ratcliffe. The reason for that is because I understand that largely they’re cut from the same cloth in that they’re all in it for themselves. Some are just better at staying under the radar than others. None should be put on a pedestal and maybe next time you rush to do it based on headline you’ll consider who the person behind the headline is. He isn’t pro brexit for your benefit just as Tusk isn’t pro EU for yours either.
 
Reactions: clint van damme and martcov

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • May 14, 2018
  • #14,293
skybluetony176 said:
You’re asking the wrong question Astute. The question is why is there dirt on these people. I have never fallen over myself to put Tusk etc. on a pedestal like you have with Jim Ratcliffe. The reason for that is because I understand that largely they’re cut from the same cloth in that they’re all in it for themselves. Some are just better at staying under the radar than others. None should be put on a pedestal and maybe next time you rush to do it based on headline you’ll consider who the person behind the headline is. He isn’t pro brexit for your benefit just as Tusk isn’t pro EU for yours either.
Click to expand...
But that is the point.

Depending on where your moral compass is on tax evasion is the answer I have been after for ages. And that does not mean just by you. If you look back Juncker has been heavily defended on here for it. But as soon as someone has used the services that he started off they are seen as a crook. If that is the case then the EU is run by crooks.

We don't know how this will go. But there are many businessesmen that are very hopeful for our future. Those who started with nothing and have done very well. Or you have the few that have proved the so called experts wring constantly. But the so called experts are still brought up as evidence that it will all go wrong for us.

There may be trouble ahead. But there could also be a very bright future. And as we have our own currency we have our own destiny in our hands.

But some people just don't want to see it that way.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • May 14, 2018
  • #14,294
Grendel said:
What was Tusks view on fracking when in charge of Poland?
Click to expand...

What has that got to do with Astute‘s ill chosen role model?
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • May 14, 2018
  • #14,295
Astute said:
But that is the point.

Depending on where your moral compass is on tax evasion is the answer I have been after for ages. And that does not mean just by you. If you look back Juncker has been heavily defended on here for it. But as soon as someone has used the services that he started off they are seen as a crook. If that is the case then the EU is run by crooks.

We don't know how this will go. But there are many businessesmen that are very hopeful for our future. Those who started with nothing and have done very well. Or you have the few that have proved the so called experts wring constantly. But the so called experts are still brought up as evidence that it will all go wrong for us.

There may be trouble ahead. But there could also be a very bright future. And as we have our own currency we have our own destiny in our hands.

But some people just don't want to see it that way.
Click to expand...

I know it’s the point. I just made it. You do realise that you’re one of the people who don’t want to see it that way when you fall over yourself to put someone on a pedestal without realising who they are and what they do and what motive that gives them to be pro or anti something. Nieve is the word that springs to mind.
 
Reactions: martcov
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • May 14, 2018
  • #14,296
Astute said:
But that is the point.

Depending on where your moral compass is on tax evasion is the answer I have been after for ages. And that does not mean just by you. If you look back Juncker has been heavily defended on here for it. But as soon as someone has used the services that he started off they are seen as a crook. If that is the case then the EU is run by crooks.

We don't know how this will go. But there are many businessesmen that are very hopeful for our future. Those who started with nothing and have done very well. Or you have the few that have proved the so called experts wring constantly. But the so called experts are still brought up as evidence that it will all go wrong for us.

There may be trouble ahead. But there could also be a very bright future. And as we have our own currency we have our own destiny in our hands.

But some people just don't want to see it that way.
Click to expand...

Who defends Juncker’s tax dodging policies for Luxemburg?

The super rich backing Brexit is not a good reason for the poor to back Brexit. No matter if their father was a joiner or bus driver or they went to a comprehensive school.

The talk of „so called experts“ is worrying. If a doctor makes a wrong diagnosis, I would not stop going to „so called“ doctors.

Just because most experts are against Brexit doesn’t make them „so called“.

We are not out of the EU yet, but cracks are appearing. We are losing ground against other economies and are blaming virtual 0 growth on the weather. The weather affected all of Europe, but most did better than we did in the first quarter.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • May 14, 2018
  • #14,297
skybluetony176 said:
I know it’s the point. I just made it. You do realise that you’re one of the people who don’t want to see it that way when you fall over yourself to put someone on a pedestal without realising who they are and what they do and what motive that gives them to be pro or anti something. Nieve is the word that springs to mind.
Click to expand...

Or even naive..;-)
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • May 14, 2018
  • #14,298
Astute said:
I thought the role model was Mandelson :smuggrin:
Click to expand...

You took a rich person, I took a rich person. Yours has form for doing things that most leavers should be against, and probably are. Mine has similar form, but I gave a full quote which, although he said it, is actually true. Or at least no one has said how it isn’t true. Grendel and yourself just said „no“. Sort of answered the question...
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • May 14, 2018
  • #14,299
skybluetony176 said:
I know it’s the point. I just made it. You do realise that you’re one of the people who don’t want to see it that way when you fall over yourself to put someone on a pedestal without realising who they are and what they do and what motive that gives them to be pro or anti something. Nieve is the word that springs to mind.
Click to expand...
More like it is a defence when someone successful says we can make it outside the EU?
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • May 14, 2018
  • #14,300
martcov said:
Who defends Juncker’s tax dodging policies for Luxemburg?

The super rich backing Brexit is not a good reason for the poor to back Brexit. No matter if their father was a joiner or bus driver or they went to a comprehensive school.

The talk of „so called experts“ is worrying. If a doctor makes a wrong diagnosis, I would not stop going to „so called“ doctors.

Just because most experts are against Brexit doesn’t make them „so called“.

We are not out of the EU yet, but cracks are appearing. We are losing ground against other economies and are blaming virtual 0 growth on the weather. The weather affected all of Europe, but most did better than we did in the first quarter.
Click to expand...
So you haven't defended Junckers tax avoidance schemes and him being in the position he holds now?

When he was voted into his position the UK brought it up as a reason he shouldn't have got it. Our say meant nothing.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • May 14, 2018
  • #14,301
martcov said:
Or even naive..;-)
Click to expand...
Put on a pedestal?

Someone being brought up on a council estate and becoming the richest person in the UK means nothing because he sees a future outside the EU?
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • May 14, 2018
  • #14,302
martcov said:
What has that got to do with Astute‘s ill chosen role model?
Click to expand...

Because all the things you have said about him could fit Tusk so I assume he’s actually your role model
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • May 14, 2018
  • #14,303
martcov said:
You took a rich person, I took a rich person. Yours has form for doing things that most leavers should be against, and probably are. Mine has similar form, but I gave a full quote which, although he said it, is actually true. Or at least no one has said how it isn’t true. Grendel and yourself just said „no“. Sort of answered the question...
Click to expand...
I took a rich person....a self made multi billionaire. You took someone who has been caught doing wrong on multiple occasions.

Yet you make out they are the same.
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • May 14, 2018
  • #14,304
British government to host summit on why other countries should join the EU
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • May 14, 2018
  • #14,305
Grendel said:
Because all the things you have said about him could fit Tusk so I assume he’s actually your role model
Click to expand...
Anyone pro EU seems to be OK.

Nobody that can see a future after leaving the EU seems to be OK.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • May 14, 2018
  • #14,306
chiefdave said:
British government to host summit on why other countries should join the EU
Click to expand...
Are the Tories trying to screw the EU up?
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • May 14, 2018
  • #14,307
Astute said:
I took a rich person....a self made multi billionaire. You took someone who has been caught doing wrong on multiple occasions.

Yet you make out they are the same.
Click to expand...

They both have form for doing things leavers theoretically should be against. So in that respect, yes.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • May 14, 2018
  • #14,308
Grendel said:
Because all the things you have said about him could fit Tusk so I assume he’s actually your role model
Click to expand...

You mentioned that Tusk did something pro fracking in Poland... so you are trying to equate Tusk with Ratcliffe in that sense. Has nothing to do with what Mandelson said about newspaper owners.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • May 14, 2018
  • #14,309
Astute said:
More like it is a defence when someone successful says we can make it outside the EU?
Click to expand...

He means he not we. It suits his companies business model for us to be out of the EU. Took me 30 seconds on google to work that out.
 
Reactions: martcov

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • May 14, 2018
  • #14,310
Astute said:
I took a rich person....a self made multi billionaire. You took someone who has been caught doing wrong on multiple occasions.

Yet you make out they are the same.
Click to expand...

You took a tax exile linked to the paradise papers who wants to rape the British countryside and needs the U.K. to leave the EU to assist him achieving that goal.
 
Reactions: martcov

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • May 14, 2018
  • #14,311
skybluetony176 said:
He means he not we. It suits his companies business model for us to be out of the EU. Took me 30 seconds on google to work that out.
Click to expand...

Given the other week you didn’t even know how to read a link to a subscribed paper that’s some achievement.

Have you been on a course?
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • May 14, 2018
  • #14,312
Grendel said:
Given the other week you didn’t even know how to read a link to a subscribed paper that’s some achievement.

Have you been on a course?
Click to expand...

You’ve claimed to be a green voter in the past. What do you think to his companies business practices?
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • May 14, 2018
  • #14,313
skybluetony176 said:
You took a tax exile linked to the paradise papers who wants to rape the British countryside and needs the U.K. to leave the EU to assist him achieving that goal.
Click to expand...
What EU rules would stop fracking?
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • May 14, 2018
  • #14,314
Astute said:
What EU rules would stop fracking?
Click to expand...

I never said there was. There are controls that don’t assist him achieving his goals though, which is what I have said. I’ve linked an article already on it. I guess you’ve not read it though as per usual. France and Germany have also banned the practice of fracking and according to you the EU is a dictatorship ran by these two so I guess it’s only a matter of time before there’s an EU wide ban on fracking, according to you anyway. So there’s another reason he wants out of the EU for his benefit not yours.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • May 14, 2018
  • #14,315
skybluetony176 said:
I never said there was. There are controls that don’t assist him achieving his goals though, which is what I have said. I’ve linked an article already on it. I guess you’ve not read it though as per usual. France and Germany have also banned the practice of fracking and according to you the EU is a dictatorship ran by these two so I guess it’s only a matter of time before there’s an EU wide ban on fracking, according to you anyway. So there’s another reason he wants out of the EU for his benefit not yours.
Click to expand...
So you admit that there are no EU rules to stop him but he wants out of the EU so their rules can't stop him?

Just like when I brought up someone who has got every forecast right for our economy when all the experts have been wrong. He sees us as doing well after Brexit. The reply to that was he isn't right this time :smuggrin:

He has made 30 billion taking struggling companies and getting them right. He started with nothing. He hasn't made a penny at fracking. But of course there are reasons.........
 
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