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The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (13 Viewers)

  • Thread starter jimmyhillsfanclub
  • Start date Jun 8, 2016
Forums New posts

As of right now, how are thinking of voting? In or out

  • Remain

    Votes: 23 37.1%
  • Leave

    Votes: 35 56.5%
  • Undecided

    Votes: 3 4.8%
  • Not registered or not intention to vote

    Votes: 1 1.6%

  • Total voters
    62
  • Poll closed Jun 15, 2016.
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skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 26, 2018
  • #12,881
SkyblueBazza said:
Whilst the British Gov't can do something about...maybe they have? Don't know myself - maybe companies & individuals are more wary after recent 'outing' of this sort of thing in the national media?

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Click to expand...

The recent “outing” in the media is a flash in the pan distraction from something else with a sacrificial high profile lamb. This time it’s Lewis Hamilton last time it was Jimmy Carr. The story disappeared quicker than it arrived. The government won’t do a thing about it.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 26, 2018
  • #12,882
SkyblueBazza said:
You knowing for a fact is not fact. You are an incredibly biased individual.

And as for Romania big much better off since you visited...dont worry that's me being facetious

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk
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I would like to know if you class yourself as a neutral person. You say something, I say that is not correct and post a link or quote an example. You then describe me as biased.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 26, 2018
  • #12,883
SkyblueBazza said:
At present EU passports are accepted due to the British being lumped in. Give it 15yrs...I suspect NZ, Canada (to name but 2) will still welcome the British passport - but have little care for your EU one. It's just an opinion I guess...& no journo will convince me different

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Canada has just signed a massive free trade deal with EU. Why would they now discriminate against the EU?
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Mar 26, 2018
  • #12,884
SkyblueBazza said:
Just like every UK citizen has the right to free speech...as long as it is PC of course

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Click to expand...

Yeah it's a shame that we can't be openly bigoted or racist these days and expect nothing to come of it, eh?
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 26, 2018
  • #12,885
Sick Boy said:
Yeah it's a shame that we can't be openly bigoted or racist these days and expect nothing to come of it, eh?
Click to expand...

Yes. This is exactly what For Britain says. The party of the silent majority and of common sense. If you dare say anything which is not ‚common sense‘ or what the so-called ‚silent majority‘ says, then you are ‚incredibly biased‘ or a ‚remoaner‘ or a ‚leftie‘.
 
Reactions: Sick Boy
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SkyblueBazza

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 26, 2018
  • #12,886
martcov said:
I would like to know if you class yourself as a neutral person. You say something, I say that is not correct and post a link or quote an example. You then describe me as biased.
Click to expand...
'Neutral' ??? You mean unbiased, open-minded, forward-thinking & realistic?
Brexit (which this whole thread is about) is happening & I am trying to embrace it in a positive way. I voted Remain (=not neutral), I my time as a voter...I have voted for all 3 of the major parties at one stage or another.
You?

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk
 
Reactions: Astute
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SkyblueBazza

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 26, 2018
  • #12,887
martcov said:
Canada has just signed a massive free trade deal with EU. Why would they now discriminate against the EU?
Click to expand...
Oh, so now you're saying the Schengen nations or maybe the EU as a whole are going to discriminate against me because I am British??? (Some might argue 'no change there then'!)

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SkyblueBazza

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 26, 2018
  • #12,888
Sick Boy said:
Yeah it's a shame that we can't be openly bigoted or racist these days and expect nothing to come of it, eh?
Click to expand...
It isn't free-speech in the true sense then is it?

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk
 
S

SkyblueBazza

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 26, 2018
  • #12,889
martcov said:
Yes. This is exactly what For Britain says. The party of the silent majority and of common sense. If you dare say anything which is not ‚common sense‘ or what the so-called ‚silent majority‘ says, then you are ‚incredibly biased‘ or a ‚remoaner‘ or a ‚leftie‘.
Click to expand...
But you keep telling us that the majority want to stay in the EU now. The relative silent majority in the run-up to the referendum have since become racist bigots, Nazi's, stupid (which is basically what you & your cronies are in essence saying), & at the very least - conned

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martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 26, 2018
  • #12,890
SkyblueBazza said:
But you keep telling us that the majority want to stay in the EU now. The relative silent majority in the run-up to the referendum have since become racist bigots, Nazi's, stupid (which is basically what you & your cronies are in essence saying), & at the very least - conned

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The 'silent majority' doesn't exsist. It is a term used by tiny right wing parties to infer that they have loads of support from the 'silent' people who didn't vote. Some leavers have indeed become racists or have been frightened into acting like racists. You mention Nazis, and I would agree that any Nazis would be at least sympathetic to parties like "For Britain".

The term 'common sense' is used to fill the void of facts in their propaganda. E.g. "we don't need experts", it is just 'common sense'.

As for being conned by professionals, read what the whistle blower says on that subject:

'Wylie machte öffentlich, dass seine ehemalige Firma Cambridge Analytica seit Jahren die Profile von 50 Millionen Facebook-Nutzern abschöpft und ihr Wissen an Parteien oder Kandidaten verkauft, die damit online gezielt potenzielle Wähler zu beeinflussen versuchen. Unter ihnen soll nicht nur US-Präsident Donald Trump gewesen sein. Sondern auch die britische Pro-Brexit-Kampagne.' C.A. Customers: Not just Donald Trump, but also the British Brexit campaign. ( Sorry it's in German, but it is out there in English if you google it ).

You should also watch the Channel 4 Dokumentar where Cambridge Analytica explain how they con people like yourself.
 
Reactions: Sick Boy

dutchman

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 26, 2018
  • #12,891
martcov said:
I don’t know. What is your source?
Click to expand...

It's the BBC News page!

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-42136236
 
Reactions: Astute
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martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 26, 2018
  • #12,892
dutchman said:
It's the BBC News page!

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-42136236
Click to expand...

Yes. Not good, but far from a gulag. Let’s hope it gets sorted soon.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 26, 2018
  • #12,893
dutchman said:
It's the BBC News page!

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-42136236
Click to expand...

That’s clearly been influenced by the EDL
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 26, 2018
  • #12,894
SkyblueBazza said:
'Neutral' ??? You mean unbiased, open-minded, forward-thinking & realistic?
Brexit (which this whole thread is about) is happening & I am trying to embrace it in a positive way. I voted Remain (=not neutral), I my time as a voter...I have voted for all 3 of the major parties at one stage or another.
You?

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Open minded, forward thinking and hoping that this disaster can be in some way mitigated. Feel that people like you have been terribly misled.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 26, 2018
  • #12,895
Grendel said:
That’s clearly been influenced by the EDL
Click to expand...


Link?
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 26, 2018
  • #12,896
SkyblueBazza said:
It isn't free-speech in the true sense then is it?

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Click to expand...

Unless you want to stir up hatred or publicly insult people, it is.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 26, 2018
  • #12,897
martcov said:
The 'silent majority' doesn't exsist. It is a term used by tiny right wing parties to infer that they have loads of support from the 'silent' people who didn't vote. Some leavers have indeed become racists or have been frightened into acting like racists. You mention Nazis, and I would agree that any Nazis would be at least sympathetic to parties like "For Britain".

The term 'common sense' is used to fill the void of facts in their propaganda. E.g. "we don't need experts", it is just 'common sense'.

As for being conned by professionals, read what the whistle blower says on that subject:

'Wylie machte öffentlich, dass seine ehemalige Firma Cambridge Analytica seit Jahren die Profile von 50 Millionen Facebook-Nutzern abschöpft und ihr Wissen an Parteien oder Kandidaten verkauft, die damit online gezielt potenzielle Wähler zu beeinflussen versuchen. Unter ihnen soll nicht nur US-Präsident Donald Trump gewesen sein. Sondern auch die britische Pro-Brexit-Kampagne.' C.A. Customers: Not just Donald Trump, but also the British Brexit campaign. ( Sorry it's in German, but it is out there in English if you google it ).

You should also watch the Channel 4 Dokumentar where Cambridge Analytica explain how they con people like yourself.
Click to expand...

Most sane people recognise Cambridge Analytica contribution was negligible and the profiling techniques were shite.
 
Reactions: Earlsdon_Skyblue1
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martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 26, 2018
  • #12,898
SkyblueBazza said:
Oh, so now you're saying the Schengen nations or maybe the EU as a whole are going to discriminate against me because I am British??? (Some might argue 'no change there then'!)

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Click to expand...

We’re not in Schengen. So you will say you are discrinated against. You wouldn’t be „discriminated against“ if you joined and you would be free to live and work wherever you wanted in the EU if we stayed. It is not discrimination, just that the UK is not a member or won’t be.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 26, 2018
  • #12,899
Grendel said:
Most sane people recognise Cambridge Analytica contribution was negligible and the profiling techniques were shite.
Click to expand...

Did you not listen to the explanation of how they „trigger“ people through fear and hope? The disinformation? The fake news? And you claim that it had little effect? Sane people know full well how to turn a relative small percentage of the population to get the desired effect. In both Trump and Brexit the margin was small, but enough to have been caused by targeting. They targeted people that they knew, through the profile given to them, they could make angry.... same general tactic as the mainstream right wing press and Farage. Together a formidable propaganda and disinformation campaign. The right wing press know how to work their readership.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 26, 2018
  • #12,900
martcov said:
Did you not listen to the explanation of how they „trigger“ people through fear and hope? The disinformation? The fake news? And you claim that it had little effect? Sane people know full well how to turn a relative small percentage of the population to get the desired effect. In both Trump and Brexit the margin was small, but enough to have been caused by targeting. They targeted people that they knew, through the profile given to them, they could make angry.... same general tactic as the mainstream right wing press and Farage. Together a formidable propaganda and disinformation campaign. The right wing press know how to work their readership.
Click to expand...

You really are a crank.

You do realise all political parties employ profilers to try and target and influence campaigns?

Remain invested £3.5 million in a profiling company to try and influence voters and guess what - it has links to Cambridge Analytica . Clinton invested massively in profiling companies.

Cambridge profiling is shite. One female investigative journalist was profiled and canme out as likely to be a homosexual male.

The irony is most people on here take a step back and research data before concluding. You just part you legs for any EU drivel that comes out from Brussels.

You are the easiest to influence by lies and bullshit

You are utterly clueless.
 
Reactions: Earlsdon_Skyblue1 and SkyblueBazza
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martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 26, 2018
  • #12,901
Grendel said:
You really are a crank.

You do realise all political parties employ profilers to try and target and influence campaigns?

Remain invested £3.5 million in a profiling company to try and influence voters and guess what - it has links to Cambridge Analytica . Clinton invested massively in profiling companies.

Cambridge profiling is shite. One female investigative journalist was profiled and canme out as likely to be a homosexual male.

The irony is most people on here take a step back and research data before concluding. You just part you legs for any EU drivel that comes out from Brussels.

You are the easiest to influence by lies and bullshit

You are utterly clueless.
Click to expand...

The story is far from over. To say that people here take a step back and research data before concluding anything is a joke. We had all this with the „white elephant“ and „edifice“ posts about the Ricoh before Wasps moved in, although City were the „only show in town“. I take your comments with a pinch of salt.
 
W

wingy

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 26, 2018
  • #12,902
See the murderer Erdogan was in Bulgaria today.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 26, 2018
  • #12,903
martcov said:
The story is far from over. To say that people here take a step back and research data before concluding anything is a joke. We had all this with the „white elephant“ and „edifice“ posts about the Ricoh before Wasps moved in, although City were the „only show in town“. I take your comments with a pinch of salt.
Click to expand...

The story isn’t “far from over” - you talk about profiling as if it’s some kind of dirty tactic.

It’s a low end attempt to influence voters but it’s a far from exact science. The above post meant to say Brexit as it’s not even Cambridge Analytica they invested in - an offshoot tiny company with limited experience. Remain had the backing of a £9 million state backed marketing message.

Clinton’s budget on expenditure was cast compared to trump - massively higher - every analyst accepts the campaign was lost by her and her marketing message which detracted voters from voting.

The Brexit campaign employed terrible agencies to influence opinion, had a bus driving around with a message that no one believed (this is a fact as despite the believe the conservatives were the party for power the country rated them hugely negatively for social spending) and still won.

Marketing is aimed at doing one thing - influencing opinion, choose the media and develop the strategy. Clinton spent far more than trump and including the leaflet remain spent far more than leave.

Cambridge Analytica and it’s offshoot im Canada is a joke. Compared to other media channels it’s an irrelevance. Even if it wasn’t then complain to remain they didn’t use them and offer more money.
 
Reactions: Earlsdon_Skyblue1
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 26, 2018
  • #12,904
Grendel said:
The story isn’t “far from over” - you talk about profiling as if it’s some kind of dirty tactic.

It’s a low end attempt to influence voters but it’s a far from exact science. The above post meant to say Brexit as it’s not even Cambridge Analytica they invested in - an offshoot tiny company with limited experience. Remain had the backing of a £9 million state backed marketing message.

Clinton’s budget on expenditure was cast compared to trump - massively higher - every analyst accepts the campaign was lost by her and her marketing message which detracted voters from voting.

The Brexit campaign employed terrible agencies to influence opinion, had a bus driving around with a message that no one believed (this is a fact as despite the believe the conservatives were the party for power the country rated them hugely negatively for social spending) and still won.

Marketing is aimed at doing one thing - influencing opinion, choose the media and develop the strategy. Clinton spent far more than trump and including the leaflet remain spent far more than leave.

Cambridge Analytica and it’s offshoot im Canada is a joke. Compared to other media channels it’s an irrelevance. Even if it wasn’t then complain to remain they didn’t use them and offer more money.
Click to expand...

I said it was a part of the campaign, not the whole story. At the end of it we have a split country and an uncertain future.

The arguments and bitterness will go on whatever happens.
 
W

wingy

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 26, 2018
  • #12,905
Isn't the question whether Leave circumvented the spending limits ?
That won't change the result but should be investigated and dealt with, whoever and wherever it occurs.
 
Reactions: martcov
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 26, 2018
  • #12,906
wingy said:
See the murderer Erdogan was in Bulgaria today.
Click to expand...

Headline here was that he still wants Turkey to join the EU... ffs
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 26, 2018
  • #12,907
martcov said:
I said it was a part of the campaign, not the whole story. At the end of it we have a split country and an uncertain future.

The arguments and bitterness will go on whatever happens.
Click to expand...

You can’t answer and change tack. Oh dear.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 26, 2018
  • #12,908
martcov said:
Headline here was that he still wants Turkey to join the EU... ffs
Click to expand...

They were saying that in Germany?
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 26, 2018
  • #12,909
wingy said:
Isn't the question whether Leave circumvented the spending limits ?
That won't change the result but should be investigated and dealt with, whoever and wherever it occurs.
Click to expand...

Remain did by £9 million and Mart suggests that employing profiling agencies influenced voters more than any other media outlet - so whose fault is that (it’s a shit median to blow 50% spend by the way)
 
W

wingy

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 26, 2018
  • #12,910
The lead civil servant tasked with solving the Irish border issues has left his job to work for Prince William today
Less than a year in the job and named director in January .
 
Reactions: martcov
W

wingy

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 26, 2018
  • #12,911
Grendel said:
Remain did by £9 million and Mart suggests that employing profiling agencies influenced voters more than any other media outlet - so whose fault is that (it’s a shit median to blow 50% spend by the way)
Click to expand...
Nothing wrong with marketing .
Taking Data without consent though?
Not certain but the figure targeted of 50M in the US ,can't be certain but I think I heard quoted overall data collected 57B.
If true that's pretty staggering.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 26, 2018
  • #12,912
wingy said:
Nothing wrong with marketing .
Taking Data without consent though?
Not certain but the figure targeted of 50M in the US ,can't be certain but I think I heard quoted overall data collected 57B.
If true that's pretty staggering.
Click to expand...

Which means most was on Clinton’s side and proves it fails.
 
W

wingy

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 26, 2018
  • #12,913
Grendel said:
Which means most was on Clinton’s side and proves it fails.
Click to expand...
But how it's harvested being the Issue ?
 
Reactions: martcov
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 26, 2018
  • #12,914
Grendel said:
You can’t answer and change tack. Oh dear.
Click to expand...


Er no... I can’t be arsed to repeat myself... as I said this is far from over.. we have 2 whistle blowers at the moment.. I don’t see what more I have to answer. There was clearly a propaganda campaign with deliberate disregard for the facts...., I didn’t follow the remain campaign as I clearly wanted to keep the status quo - imo it benefits most people... they didn’t need to convince me.... I did watch, and have watched a lot of leave stuff and have been appalled, especially by Farage and the Mail, Express etc.. and by their readers‘ insane and hateful comments. I hope that some of those were „triggered“ by targeted propaganda campaigns as it would indeed be worse if these people were already like that...
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 26, 2018
  • #12,915
wingy said:
But how it's harvested being the Issue ?
Click to expand...

But in the end you choose your agency. Clinton had a 100 million higher marketing spend.

If martcov is correct and he says trump influenced voters more with a marginal spend he’s saying Donald J Trump is a genius.

Is that what you are saying Mart?
 
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