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The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (11 Viewers)

  • Thread starter jimmyhillsfanclub
  • Start date Jun 8, 2016
Forums New posts

As of right now, how are thinking of voting? In or out

  • Remain

    Votes: 23 37.1%
  • Leave

    Votes: 35 56.5%
  • Undecided

    Votes: 3 4.8%
  • Not registered or not intention to vote

    Votes: 1 1.6%

  • Total voters
    62
  • Poll closed Jun 15, 2016.
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M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 18, 2017
  • #11,201
Astute said:
So what have I made up? I posted the links.
Click to expand...

You are claiming to quote my views - the quotes are not true and the views are not true.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 18, 2017
  • #11,202
SkyblueBazza said:
They would never say it in print or public. They simply scheme things that way.

I say 'mostly' because of things like sponsors/commissioners having vested interests in the outcomes of the polls...they have become a tool to sway the not yet committed...or destabilise the committed. Don't trust the polls: the systemic issues that make voter surveys unreliable - & I personally don't bother much at all with polls.

The reason we as a nation voted out is largely down to things moving too fast in the opposite direction to what you describe...THAT sowed discontent among the less skilled & lower paid.

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

What were the things that have moved too fast?
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 18, 2017
  • #11,203
SkyblueBazza said:
They would never say it in print or public. They simply scheme things that way.

I say 'mostly' because of things like sponsors/commissioners having vested interests in the outcomes of the polls...they have become a tool to sway the not yet committed...or destabilise the committed. Don't trust the polls: the systemic issues that make voter surveys unreliable - & I personally don't bother much at all with polls.

The reason we as a nation voted out is largely down to things moving too fast in the opposite direction to what you describe...THAT sowed discontent among the less skilled & lower paid.

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Who are they? The 28 present members?
 
K

Kingokings204

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 18, 2017
  • #11,204
martcov said:
She „won“.

No. It varied in 2016. Leave started doing well as from January. Remain as from Jo Cox‘s death. Then it was a slight lead and a slight loss until the day. Leave won by a small margin on the day
Click to expand...

Clinton lost.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 18, 2017
  • #11,205
Kingokings204 said:
Clinton lost.
Click to expand...

I put „won“ in inverted commas. She „won“ the popular vote as predicted. How‘s your mate Farage getting on these days?
 
K

Kingokings204

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 18, 2017
  • #11,206
martcov said:
I put „won“ in inverted commas. She „won“ the popular vote as predicted. How‘s your mate Farage getting on these days?
Click to expand...

So she lost then.

He told me he was round your house last night as you are always plugging him on here.

Speaking of which I did see this on his show tonight and it reminded me of you. A great speech from this labour supporter. I loved it. I would listen as millions of people feel like this and many call in.

 
Reactions: Astute and Grendel

Captain Dart

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 18, 2017
  • #11,207
Titter...
Half of Germans Want to Scrap Euro, Bring Back Deutsche Mark - Breitbart

Germans getting mighty pissed off at having to keep Greece afloat.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 18, 2017
  • #11,208
Kingokings204 said:
So she lost then.

He told me he was round your house last night as you are always plugging him on here.

Speaking of which I did see this on his show tonight and it reminded me of you. A great speech from this labour supporter. I loved it. I would listen as millions of people feel like this and many call in.

Click to expand...

Total idiot and UKIP supporter. „People’s Republic of London“ says a „Labour“ supporter. Haha. What has he said? Apart from „I want out“? Seems like he doesn’t like it that people are waking up to Brexit. Sounded desperate.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 18, 2017
  • #11,209
Captain Dart said:
Titter...
Half of Germans Want to Scrap Euro, Bring Back Deutsche Mark - Breitbart

Germans getting mighty pissed off at having to keep Greece afloat.
Click to expand...

No one is talking about it that at the moment. The government is still trying to get a coalition together. Withdrawing from the euro has not been discussed. Unemployment is falling. Wage increases above inflation. Young people cannot remember the DMark. I don’t know where you get this crap from..... oh wait.... let me guess....
 
Reactions: Sick Boy
K

Kingokings204

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 18, 2017
  • #11,210
martcov said:
Total idiot and UKIP supporter. „People’s Republic of London“ says a „Labour“ supporter. Haha. What has he said? Apart from „I want out“? Seems like he doesn’t like it that people are waking up to Brexit. Sounded desperate.
Click to expand...

Many many people especially labour supporters feel like this Mart. He made valid points imo.

I can see why you don’t like this caller but this is a reality.
 
Reactions: Astute

Captain Dart

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 18, 2017
  • #11,211
martcov said:
No one is talking about it that at the moment. The government is still trying to get a coalition together. Withdrawing from the euro has not been discussed. Unemployment is falling. Wage increases above inflation. Young people cannot remember the DMark. I don’t know where you get this crap from..... oh wait.... let me guess....
Click to expand...

The poll was commissioned by Bild not Briebart, why did Bild commission that poll, I thought that was a mainstream establishment publication if ever there was one.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 18, 2017
  • #11,212
Kingokings204 said:
Many many people especially labour supporters feel like this Mart. He made valid points imo.

I can see why you don’t like this caller but this is a reality.
Click to expand...

I don’t see him as labour and he didn’t seem to understand anything apart from out means out.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 18, 2017
  • #11,213
Captain Dart said:
The poll was commissioned by Bild not Briebart, why did Bild commission that poll, I thought that was a mainstream establishment publication if ever there was one.
Click to expand...

The German „Sun“. I don’t know why as I don’t read it. Nobody I know has mentioned the DMark to me for years. Actually you don’t hear much about Greece at the moment. Young people cannot know much about the DMark. Something must be afoot.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 18, 2017
  • #11,214
Captain Dart said:
The poll was commissioned by Bild not Briebart, why did Bild commission that poll, I thought that was a mainstream establishment publication if ever there was one.
Click to expand...

What date was the poll? I found one from the Bild in 2011 which quoted the figures you are on about. Have Breitbart dug that our? Or you?
 
Reactions: Sick Boy

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Dec 18, 2017
  • #11,215
Kingokings204 said:
So she lost then.

He told me he was round your house last night as you are always plugging him on here.

Speaking of which I did see this on his show tonight and it reminded me of you. A great speech from this labour supporter. I loved it. I would listen as millions of people feel like this and many call in.

Click to expand...

Many people don't feel that way. Sometimes it feels like some believe the result was something of a landslide.
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Dec 18, 2017
  • #11,216
David Davis to warn EU it cannot cherrypick in Brexit trade deal talks

Somehow I think this is more likely to end up like 'row of the summer'.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 19, 2017
  • #11,217
Sick Boy said:
David Davis to warn EU it cannot cherrypick in Brexit trade deal talks

Somehow I think this is more likely to end up like 'row of the summer'.
Click to expand...
It is the only way to go.

Or should we let the EU decide that whatever they export the most of to us is tariff free ànd what we export the most of has tariffs?

And then it has to go through parliament. There is no way a deal biased towards the EU will go through.
 

dutchman

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 19, 2017
  • #11,218
Astute said:
It is the only way to go.

Or should we let the EU decide that whatever they export the most of to us is tariff free ànd what we export the most of has tariffs?

And then it has to go through parliament. There is no way a deal biased towards the EU will go through.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't bet on that, the overwhelming majority of MPs are still pro-EU.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 19, 2017
  • #11,219
Astute said:
It is the only way to go.

Or should we let the EU decide that whatever they export the most of to us is tariff free ànd what we export the most of has tariffs?

And then it has to go through parliament. There is no way a deal biased towards the EU will go through.
Click to expand...

We are in the CU and SM at the moment which doesn’t cherry pick. If we had voted remain we wouldn’t need to negotiate a comprehensive non cherry picked agreement. The only people trying to cherry pick an agreement are Davis and his team who want the benefits of being in the CU and SM without being in them.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 19, 2017
  • #11,220
martcov said:
We are in the CU and SM at the moment which doesn’t cherry pick. If we had voted remain we wouldn’t need to negotiate a comprehensive non cherry picked agreement. The only people trying to cherry pick an agreement are Davis and his team who want the benefits of being in the CU and SM without being in them.
Click to expand...
So the EU doesn't want what is best for them and not us?

That is good to hear.

And it was democracy. You constantly tell us how important it is.
 
Reactions: Kingokings204

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 19, 2017
  • #11,221
Are we back to people who voted leave because the EU is a protectionist organisation acting all surprised again when the EU acts to protect itself? Happened at the first stage of negotiations so I suppose the charade is bound to continue. Welcome to the realities of brexit. Stop acting surprised, you’re fooling no one. Take ownership of your vote, if you don’t like the reality of what you voted for you only have yourselves to blame. Remember, you knew what you voted for and this is it.
 
Reactions: Sick Boy, martcov and clint van damme
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 19, 2017
  • #11,222
Astute said:
So the EU doesn't want what is best for them and not us?

That is good to hear.

And it was democracy. You constantly tell us how important it is.
Click to expand...

The EU wants what is best for their members. If we remained that would include us. We voted to leave, so the EU will only represent the ones who are not leaving. That is democracy at work. You have nothing to complain about as far as the EU is concerned. They are respecting the vote.
 
K

Kingokings204

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 19, 2017
  • #11,223
skybluetony176 said:
Are we back to people who voted leave because the EU is a protectionist organisation acting all surprised again when the EU acts to protect itself? Happened at the first stage of negotiations so I suppose the charade is bound to continue. Welcome to the realities of brexit. Stop acting surprised, you’re fooling no one. Take ownership of your vote, if you don’t like the reality of what you voted for you only have yourselves to blame. Remember, you knew what you voted for and this is it.
Click to expand...

But if they hurt the UK they are hurting themselves.? That’s why the EU is so disconnected. Where is the sense in that?
 
Reactions: Astute

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Dec 19, 2017
  • #11,224
Astute said:
It is the only way to go.

Or should we let the EU decide that whatever they export the most of to us is tariff free ànd what we export the most of has tariffs?

And then it has to go through parliament. There is no way a deal biased towards the EU will go through.
Click to expand...

The UK has very little power in these 'negotiations'. It'll be the same as the 'row of the summer', loads of hot air before rolling over.

Let's also hope that the government has a backup plan for the economy after the recent interview in the Guardian.
 
Reactions: martcov
K

Kingokings204

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 19, 2017
  • #11,225
Sick Boy said:
Many people don't feel that way. Sometimes it feels like some believe the result was something of a landslide.
Click to expand...

Many Labour supporters do feel that way and leave voters in general but there is this myth that Labour leave supporters are all happy and will vote Labour next GE. I wouldn’t count on it. Listen to the link and read many comments online from Labour members.

John Hill from Labour was on LBC Sunday and he is very worried. He said whilst many Labour mps want to remain there are 4-5 million Labour voters who want to leave. Genuine disconnect.
 
Reactions: Astute

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Dec 19, 2017
  • #11,226
Kingokings204 said:
Many Labour supporters do feel that way and leave voters in general but there is this myth that Labour leave supporters are all happy and will vote Labour next GE. I wouldn’t count on it. Listen to the link and read many comments online from Labour members.

John Hill from Labour was on LBC Sunday and he is very worried. He said whilst many Labour mps want to remain there are 4-5 million Labour voters who want to leave. Genuine disconnect.
Click to expand...

At least they vote for a party that has a genuine eurosceptic leader, unlike the Tories.

Also a majority of Labour voters did vote to remain (65%).
 
Reactions: martcov
K

Kingokings204

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 19, 2017
  • #11,227
Sick Boy said:
At least they vote for a party that has a genuine eurosceptic leader, unlike the Tories.

Also a majority of Labour voters did vote to remain (65%).
Click to expand...

Oh I do agree. I’m a Labour supporter myself until recently especially being from Coventry and the labour mps I believe it’s 90% plus who want to remain also. It’s very high.

My point was between 4-5 million Labour voters voted to leave in the EU ref and no sod knows what labours position is? In the GE they catorgorically Stated we will leave single market customs union and end free movement of people now some mps won’t rule out a second ref. Corbyn is extremely quiet wouldnt you agree? Reason is he wants to leave the EU but his party is mainly blairytes and all want to stay in the EU and I think the confusion is deliberate.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 19, 2017
  • #11,228
Kingokings204 said:
But if they hurt the UK they are hurting themselves.? That’s why the EU is so disconnected. Where is the sense in that?
Click to expand...

If you voted for leave you are probably hurting yourself. It was the risk you took. You could call it a disconnect. The EU will take the way that is best long term for the 27. It may be that they have to take a short term hit as they are not going to give an ex member a better deal than the members. The situation was caused by the leave vote and we will probably all be worse off in the short term, with no guarantee of things getting better long term.
 

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 19, 2017
  • #11,229
Kingokings204 said:
Many Labour supporters do feel that way and leave voters in general but there is this myth that Labour leave supporters are all happy and will vote Labour next GE. I wouldn’t count on it. Listen to the link and read many comments online from Labour members.

John Hill from Labour was on LBC Sunday and he is very worried. He said whilst many Labour mps want to remain there are 4-5 million Labour voters who want to leave. Genuine disconnect.
Click to expand...

I think you're right and it's beyond doubt that this issue transcends party politics, especially in the main two parties.
I think it's also beyond doubt, no matter what people say, that within the leave vote there are various factions with a different idea as to what Brexit should mean.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 19, 2017
  • #11,230
Kingokings204 said:
But if they hurt the UK they are hurting themselves.? That’s why the EU is so disconnected. Where is the sense in that?
Click to expand...

Brexit was always going to cause pain. We hurt the EU and we are hurting ourselves as well by voting out. That door swings both ways. The EU will now act to protec itself as much as possible. We know that. Why are people acting surprised and complaining about it. It was never ever going to be any different. That’s the whole point of being a trading bloc. It’s safety and power in numbers.
 
Reactions: Sick Boy and martcov
K

Kingokings204

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 19, 2017
  • #11,231
skybluetony176 said:
Brexit was always going to cause pain. We hurt the EU and we are hurting ourselves as well by voting out. That door swings both ways. The EU will now act to protec itself as much as possible. We know that. Why are people acting surprised and complaining about it. It was never ever going to be any different. That’s the whole point of being a trading bloc. It’s safety and power in numbers.
Click to expand...

That’s fine to protecting yourself. Trouble is and you just admitted it by protecting their very own principals hundreds of thousands of jobs are at risk. Not saying the EU will as I think we will get a free trade deal so then have they protected their own citizens and jobs after all?
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 19, 2017
  • #11,232
Kingokings204 said:
That’s fine to protecting yourself. Trouble is and you just admitted it by protecting their very own principals hundreds of thousands of jobs are at risk. Not saying the EU will as I think we will get a free trade deal so then have they protected their own citizens and jobs after all?
Click to expand...

Are you talking about the UK or EU there or are you suggesting that people voted leave for the benefit of the EU? The EU will do what it takes to protect itself and that is likely to be at our expense. It was something that was always going to happen in this scenario.
 
K

Kingokings204

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 19, 2017
  • #11,233
skybluetony176 said:
Are you talking about the UK or EU there or are you suggesting that people voted leave for the benefit of the EU? The EU will do what it takes to protect itself and that is likely to be at our expense. It was something that was always going to happen in this scenario.
Click to expand...

But what I’m saying is what is protecting yourself? Is it the citizens and protecting their jobs and income or preserving the single market and freedom of movement and costing hundreds of thousands of jobs?
 
Reactions: Astute

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 19, 2017
  • #11,234
Sick Boy said:
At least they vote for a party that has a genuine eurosceptic leader, unlike the Tories.

Also a majority of Labour voters did vote to remain (65%).
Click to expand...

Most labour voters at the last election voted to leave.
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Dec 19, 2017
  • #11,235
Grendel said:
Most labour voters at the last election voted to leave.
Click to expand...

What's that based on?

Big majority of Labour members 'want UK to stay in single market'

YouGov | How Britain Voted
 
Reactions: martcov
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