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The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (6 Viewers)

  • Thread starter jimmyhillsfanclub
  • Start date Jun 8, 2016
Forums New posts

As of right now, how are thinking of voting? In or out

  • Remain

    Votes: 23 37.1%
  • Leave

    Votes: 35 56.5%
  • Undecided

    Votes: 3 4.8%
  • Not registered or not intention to vote

    Votes: 1 1.6%

  • Total voters
    62
  • Poll closed Jun 15, 2016.
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SIR ERNIE

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 16, 2017
  • #11,131
martcov said:
There were more violent or abusive attacks after the Brexit campaign which indicates that some people do react to the general hysteria caused at least in part by the Brexit press.
Click to expand...

That’s right, within Europe’s most tolerant country a wave of hate spewing racism was unleashed as a direct result of the Brexit vote. At least, according to the BBC and the grubby little Guardian.

In the interests of balance and perspective, here’s an alternative version:

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2017/02/truth-behind-brexit-hate-crime-spike/
 
Reactions: Captain Dart

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 16, 2017
  • #11,132
SIR ERNIE said:
That’s right, within Europe’s most tolerant country a wave of hate spewing racism was unleashed as a direct result of the Brexit vote. At least, according to the BBC and the grubby little Guardian.

In the interests of balance and perspective, here’s an alternative version:

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2017/02/truth-behind-brexit-hate-crime-spike/
Click to expand...

it's by Brendan O'Neil, he's a right wing WUM who thinks he's the voice of the working class. He wouldn't know a working class person if he tripped over one.

He believes in free speech for the right but not for the left, a bit like this week where we saw those who bang the drum for democracy going mental when said democracy didn't work in their favour.
You'll have to do better.
 
Reactions: martcov and Sick Boy

SIR ERNIE

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 16, 2017
  • #11,133
clint van damme said:
it's by Brendan O'Neil, he's a right wing WUM who thinks he's the voice of the working class. He wouldn't know a working class person if he tripped over one.

He believes in free speech for the right but not for the left, a bit like this week where we saw those who bang the drum for democracy going mental when said democracy didn't work in their favour.
You'll have to do better.
Click to expand...

Ah, of course. Dismiss anything to the right of The Guardian.

Well done, you'll go far clint. Have a great day.
 

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 16, 2017
  • #11,134
SIR ERNIE said:
Ah, of course. Dismiss anything to the right of The Guardian.

Well done, you'll go far clint. Have a great day.
Click to expand...

i follow Brendan O'Neill and read Spikedonline. Unlike you I don't just read publications/writers who only reinforce my own opinions.
There's a piece in todays Guardian by Nick Cohen slating the Labour leadership, but because of your narrow mindedness you would never come across it.
The only publications I avoid are ones with a proven track record of lying, sun. mail etc.
The news today about the threat from the extreme right would appear to contradict Brendan as well;

Far-Right on the rise warns Security Minister
 
Reactions: Sick Boy

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Dec 16, 2017
  • #11,135
SIR ERNIE said:
That’s right, within Europe’s most tolerant country a wave of hate spewing racism was unleashed as a direct result of the Brexit vote. At least, according to the BBC and the grubby little Guardian.

In the interests of balance and perspective, here’s an alternative version:

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2017/02/truth-behind-brexit-hate-crime-spike/
Click to expand...

I wouldn't say the UK is Europe's most tolerant country.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 16, 2017
  • #11,136
clint van damme said:
it's by Brendan O'Neil, he's a right wing WUM who thinks he's the voice of the working class. He wouldn't know a working class person if he tripped over one.

He believes in free speech for the right but not for the left, a bit like this week where we saw those who bang the drum for democracy going mental when said democracy didn't work in their favour.
You'll have to do better.
Click to expand...

Is this the guy who said that the victims of Jimmy Savile should keep quiet?
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 16, 2017
  • #11,137
Sick Boy said:
I wouldn't say the UK is Europe's most tolerant country.
Click to expand...

I used to agree. Not so sure anymore.
 
Reactions: Sick Boy
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 16, 2017
  • #11,138
SIR ERNIE said:
Ah, of course. Dismiss anything to the right of The Guardian.

Well done, you'll go far clint. Have a great day.
Click to expand...

Did these measures defining hate crimes take place on Brexit day? No, they were there before. Even if they are wrong, they were wrong before and after... which means a spike is a spike. If it was the day after a definition was changed maybe he would have a point, but it looks like an excuse to show people as snowflakes. The Spanish guy in Bournemouth hit on the head with a plank for speaking Spanish, or the family of the Pole kicked to death for being Polish would probably take offence at this whitewash.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 16, 2017
  • #11,139
SIR ERNIE said:
That’s right, within Europe’s most tolerant country a wave of hate spewing racism was unleashed as a direct result of the Brexit vote. At least, according to the BBC and the grubby little Guardian.

In the interests of balance and perspective, here’s an alternative version:

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2017/02/truth-behind-brexit-hate-crime-spike/
Click to expand...

A whitewash from the contributor. We are not the worst, but things have gone down a lot. Yes we are off Paki bashing, insulting „thick paddies“, tight Scots etc..... but some of us are on to annoying Eastern Europeans.

The BNP and EDL were wiped out by UKIP, as were the NF and British Movement when Thatcher got tougher on immigration and brought right wing conservatives into the mainstream. Britain First is alive and well. A lot of nasties are very happy with the leave vote and hoping maybe that there will be less Muslim immigration as a result of the general right wing trend. Some people rejoice at the success of the right in Europe and hope the time has come for them and their views.

It hasn’t. The cracks are appearing already. People can see what is happening in the US, and with Brexit, and that awakening will spread to mainland Europe. The lies are being exposed.
 
Reactions: clint van damme and Sick Boy

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 16, 2017
  • #11,140
martcov said:
A whitewash from the contributor. We are not the worst, but things have gone down a lot. Yes we are off Paki bashing, insulting „thick paddies“, tight Scots etc..... but some of us are on to annoying Eastern Europeans.

The BNP and EDL were wiped out by UKIP, as were the NF and British Movement when Thatcher got tougher on immigration and brought right wing conservatives into the mainstream. Britain First is alive and well. A lot of nasties are very happy with the leave vote and hoping maybe that there will be less Muslim immigration as a result of the general right wing trend. Some people rejoice at the success of the right in Europe and hope the time has come for them and their views.

It hasn’t. The cracks are appearing already. People can see what is happening in the US, and with Brexit, and that awakening will spread to mainland Europe. The lies are being exposed.
Click to expand...

Ah. Britain First. Born out of the ashes of the BNP and one of the figureheads is the granddaughter of a European immigrant. Think I read somewhere that Nick Griffin has also settled in the EU somewhere. Irony city amongst that lot.
 
Reactions: clint van damme
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 16, 2017
  • #11,141
skybluetony176 said:
Ah. Britain First. Born out of the ashes of the BNP and one of the figureheads is the granddaughter of a European immigrant. Think I read somewhere that Nick Griffin has also settled in the EU somewhere. Irony city amongst that lot.
Click to expand...

I thought he wanted to gho to Hungary because it is the most right wing country in the EU. Poland is catching up now though.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 16, 2017
  • #11,142
martcov said:
I thought he wanted to gho to Hungary because it is the most right wing country in the EU. Poland is catching up now though.
Click to expand...

That was it. Apparently they’ve banned him from entering though as he’s a security risk.
 

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 16, 2017
  • #11,143
skybluetony176 said:
Is this the guy who said that the victims of Jimmy Savile should keep quiet?
Click to expand...

possibly, I didn't see that article but that wouldn't surprise me. He doesn't half talk some shite. Still, good to know what the enemy is thinking!
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 16, 2017
  • #11,144
clint van damme said:
possibly, I didn't see that article but that wouldn't surprise me. He doesn't half talk some shite. Still, good to know what the enemy is thinking!
Click to expand...

Thinking? What a novel idea

If You Were Abused By Jimmy Savile, Maybe You Should Keep It to Yourself
 

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 16, 2017
  • #11,145
skybluetony176 said:
Thinking? What a novel idea

If You Were Abused By Jimmy Savile, Maybe You Should Keep It to Yourself
Click to expand...

it always amazes me how middle aged white men know exactly how to handle sexual abuse, racism, misogyny though the vast majority haven't experienced any of them.
 
Reactions: Sick Boy

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 16, 2017
  • #11,146
clint van damme said:
it always amazes me how middle aged white men know exactly how to handle sexual abuse, racism, misogyny though the vast majority haven't experienced any of them.
Click to expand...

People like this are dangerous. To ask the question “who benefits from victims coming forward” is worrying. The true question is who benefits from them keeping quiet? The answer is perpetrators. The brave victims of Savile who came forward have empowered over victims to come forward and perpetrators still at large to be brought to justice. Anyone who sees it any other way really isn’t worth listening to. They have their head and arse screwed on the wrong way around.
 
Reactions: Astute, martcov, Sick Boy and 1 other person
S

SkyblueBazza

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 17, 2017
  • #11,147
martcov said:
Exactly. And the government is: the EU Parliament of elected representatives and a second chamber of member government representatives voting on a majority basis.
Click to expand...
And just to remind you again...the UK voted 'out' on a majority basis

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk
 
Reactions: Astute
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 17, 2017
  • #11,148
SkyblueBazza said:
And just to remind you again...the UK voted 'out' on a majority basis

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

In a true democracy you can change your mind if things are not working out as expected. Especially if you were misled.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 17, 2017
  • #11,149
martcov said:
In a true democracy you can change your mind if things are not working out as expected. Especially if you were misled.
Click to expand...
So the Tory MP's can be called in if there is a decent offer given so it doesn't fo to a parliamentary vote?

Not at all.

If you stand up for democracy you stand up for the result for a vote. You don't change your mind about democracy depending on what your personal views are.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 17, 2017
  • #11,150
Astute said:
So the Tory MP's can be called in if there is a decent offer given so it doesn't fo to a parliamentary vote?

Not at all.

If you stand up for democracy you stand up for the result for a vote. You don't change your mind about democracy depending on what your personal views are.
Click to expand...

So using your logic we shouldn’t have had the referendum because we’d already voted to join and changing your mind is undemocratic. Again using your logic we should ignore the result of the leave referendum because if you believe in democracy we’re not allowed to change our mind. Using your logic that is.
 
Reactions: martcov
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 17, 2017
  • #11,151
Astute said:
So the Tory MP's can be called in if there is a decent offer given so it doesn't fo to a parliamentary vote?

Not at all.

If you stand up for democracy you stand up for the result for a vote. You don't change your mind about democracy depending on what your personal views are.
Click to expand...

I stand up for democracy and that means letting the people change their minds, as in a parliamentary democracy. You know, the one that lets you vote out the government if they have misled you or if things are not going well. You don’t vote Tory for eternity and the present government will be voted out if this mess continues.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 17, 2017
  • #11,152
skybluetony176 said:
So using your logic we shouldn’t have had the referendum because we’d already voted to join and changing your mind is undemocratic. Again using your logic we should ignore the result of the leave referendum because if you believe in democracy we’re not allowed to change our mind. Using your logic that is.
Click to expand...
Not logic. Well not my logic anyway.

Just ask Mart. If it is the resulthe wants it is democracy. If it isn't the result he wants it is too close to be democratic.
 
Reactions: Kingokings204

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 17, 2017
  • #11,153
martcov said:
I stand up for democracy and that means letting the people change their minds, as in a parliamentary democracy. You know, the one that lets you vote out the government if they have misled you or if things are not going well. You don’t vote Tory for eternity and the present government will be voted out if this mess continues.
Click to expand...
So would you say it is OK for parliament to change their minds?
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 17, 2017
  • #11,154
Astute said:
So would you say it is OK for parliament to change their minds?
Click to expand...

Yes. Like they did about ID cards. I was for ID cards and millions were spent preparing for them, but the Tories cancelled them.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 17, 2017
  • #11,155
Astute said:
Not logic. Well not my logic anyway.

Just ask Mart. If it is the resulthe wants it is democracy. If it isn't the result he wants it is too close to be democratic.
Click to expand...

Hey you’re the one saying that we’re not allowed to change our mind so on your say so we’d better remain and ignore the referendum. Mart is saying we’re allowed to change our mind, no point blaming him.
 
Reactions: martcov

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 17, 2017
  • #11,156
skybluetony176 said:
Hey you’re the one saying that we’re not allowed to change our mind so on your say so we’d better remain and ignore the referendum. Mart is saying we’re allowed to change our mind, no point blaming him.
Click to expand...
Am I?

No. Just twisting of words as usual.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 17, 2017
  • #11,157
martcov said:
Yes. Like they did about ID cards. I was for ID cards and millions were spent preparing for them, but the Tories cancelled them.
Click to expand...

Good. Anyone who values freedom of liberty is against them.
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Dec 17, 2017
  • #11,158
Grendel said:
Good. Anyone who values freedom of liberty is against them.
Click to expand...

In the country with the most CCTV cameras in the world? Hahaha!
 
Reactions: martcov

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 17, 2017
  • #11,159
Sick Boy said:
In the country with the most CCTV cameras in the world? Hahaha!
Click to expand...

Do you favour them? They are very much preferred by the right wing of society - so do you?
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Dec 17, 2017
  • #11,160
Grendel said:
Do you favour them? They are very much preferred by the right wing of society - so do you?
Click to expand...

I have no opinion either way. I've had one Italy and it wasn't really a massive deal.

Are you opposed to CCTV? The government's Snoopers' Charter? The latter is arguably much more intrusive.
 
Reactions: martcov
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 17, 2017
  • #11,161
Grendel said:
Good. Anyone who values freedom of liberty is against them.
Click to expand...

Some on here are scared of asylum seekers, want more border controls and think people should be vetted as refugees, but to suggest people can be identified more easily thus enabling these controls is against freedom and liberty. It would also make benefit abuse harder. I am for ID cards and the sooner I get my citizenship the better. Then I will carry it everywhere in my wallet. Sounds hypocritical to be in the leave/ control camp and not be able to know who is who.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 17, 2017
  • #11,162
Sick Boy said:
I have no opinion either way. I've had one Italy and it wasn't really a massive deal.

Are you opposed to CCTV? The government's Snoopers' Charter? The latter is arguably much more intrusive.
Click to expand...

It isn’t. Identity cards give governments powers to restrict movement and can allow state control over individuals. CCTV most definitely cannot.

Given you describe yourself as liberal by nature your apparent apathy to this subject is a direct contradiction to your claimed ideology.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 17, 2017
  • #11,163
martcov said:
Some on here are scared of asylum seekers, want more border controls and think people should be vetted as refugees, but to suggest people can be identified more easily thus enabling these controls is against freedom and liberty. It would also make benefit abuse harder. I am for ID cards and the sooner I get my citizenship the better. Then I will carry it everywhere in my wallet. Sounds hypocritical to be in the leave/ control camp and not be able to know who is who.
Click to expand...

Spoken like a true right wing federalist - which is what you are.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 17, 2017
  • #11,164
Grendel said:
Spoken like a true right wing federalist - which is what you are.
Click to expand...

I have never claimed to be left. I have been called naive enough times on here. But, I am not naive and the trade off for borderless travel, which I favour, is ID cards.
 

dancers lance

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 17, 2017
  • #11,165
martcov said:
I have never claimed to be left. I have been called naive enough times on here. But, I am not naive and the trade off for borderless travel, which I favour, is ID cards.
Click to expand...
That sounds like something only a lefty would say......:smug:
 
Reactions: clint van damme and martcov
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