The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (16 Viewers)

martcov · Dec 5, 2017

SIR ERNIE said:
You say you love the UK and don’t want to see it suffer but 295 pages tell a very different story.

They show that you place the preservation of your beloved Germany-dominated EU project above all, including the wellbeing of the UK. You label leavers as thick xenophobes, racists, Little Englanders and even Nazis who don’t know what they voted for. You pour scorn on the UK negotiators whilst loyally defending fools like Barnier and Junkers and your obsessive hatred for Farage is because he exposed your EU for what it is.

There are plenty of remainers on here who are genuinely concerned about the effects of Brexit on the UK but you’re not one of them. You desperately want to see the UK to suffer so that the chances of the EU remaining intact are increased.

I have never called anyone a thick xenophobe or a Nazi, and I don't recall calling anyone a little Englander. I pour scorn on the British negotiators, but I am certainly not alone in that. "Thick as mince and lazy as a toad" is not my description of Davis. I don't defend Juncker - apart from saying that he is not the President of Europe. I have never made a comment about Barnier.

I think Farage is a twat and he continues to talk bullshit ( e.g. he will take his pension because he doesn't want his family to suffer... After years of behaving like a cxxt to his family ).

Farage is dirt and hasn't exposed anything.

I do not desperately want the UK to suffer. I keep pointing out that Brexit is self harm and that if the UK suffers, I will call out those who caused the suffering. I would hope that you would do the same if Brexit screws up.

Ashdown · Dec 5, 2017

martcov said:
We will be paying over a period of time as our liabilities become due. I don’t think we will accept paying everything up front and if we put it in writing what we are going to pay for, then the EU will probably accept that. The EU are not gaining anything, they just want us to pay membership up until we go and cover liabilities. The same as if you pay a bank loan back. The bank hasn’t robbed you, you paid back what you had borrowed at the agreed terms. Normal.

As regards borders, I think a key point is not having a land border with ROI. The arguments for ease of transport for private people and, perhaps, more importantly, having no trade barriers are the same as for not having a hard border with France and Holland. Even fanatics like KoK don’t want a land border with ROI. The same leavers want a hard border with the EU though. Not thought through obviously. You cannot want one, but not the other. It is a contradiction.

It would be great if someone said, wtf, it‘s more complicated and damaging than we thought, let’s call it a day and get on with building a better stronger EU.

But, as we can see even on here, there are a lot of agendas fighting against a successful EU. Human nature in the form of being scared of foreigners and a tribal resentment against anything from outside, coupled with greed and ignorance is indeed selling the U.K. down the river. My solution for myself is German citizenship, assuming I pass the language and citizenship tests. Yours is hoping that after leaving the EU, the U.K. will do away with piffling human rights. Good luck with that, it ended in tears when Germany took that path in the 30s.

I was serious about you going to Nürnberg Dokumentation Zentrum. You said you liked travel, and I though you may reflect on some of your comments when you saw what happened when people actually did away with people of an oriental religion and piffling human rights. It started off fairly innocently and grew into a disaster.

You're a double of the Leicester looney we had on here, Hackney Fox !! Only he told everyone they must be BNP, rather than the more German Nazi stain !

martcov · Dec 5, 2017

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
You two are totally stupid. Do you really believe that?

Oskarshamn is a town of roughly 18,000 people. That is town smaller than Kenilworth. Over the last year there has been numerous robberies, rapes, and violent crimes. Even though 'not much happens there', you can see why this has shaken the town. As a result of the disruption and due to the police acting as if nothing is wrong, people have taken things into their own hands. Is throwing stones at migrants wrong? Of course! Is it as bad as multiple rape, robbery, or violent assaults? No, it isn't! Get some fucking perspective.

Bear in mind that in Stockholm, the Police were ordered to be very 'sparing' when describing suspects, as they didn't want to be perceived as 'racist'. When a policeman then comes out and says 'not much happens here' or 'the joggers are scared of the dark', it is pretty clear there is a bit more going on than appears. It's pretty basic, but if you google in Swedish: - Oskarshamn Rape and Oskarshamn Robbery, you might get some explanations as to why people are anxious. This is monkey work to be honest, and I will give you a clue, it isn't because the moon isn't out certain nights!

If you're going to have a go, at least try and act like you know what you are talking about. Many people Europe wide are now stepping above your ignorance and denial. The more you try to make excuses, hide the problem, or call people who raise the issue as racist, the more groups like Britain First, AFD, and the SD will continue to grow and prosper.

Are you saying that Britain First is not racist or islamophobe, and therefore I cannot say that, otherwise they will become racist?

Many people also see what groups such as Britain First and AfD are about and reject them completely.

Are you justifying people taking things into their own hands by stoning children because it is not as bad as rape, robbery or violent assaults?

skybluetony176 · Dec 5, 2017

fernandopartridge said:
Why are you starting on the basis of being outside the EU meaning we no longer trade with them? Why should we have to be part of a political union just to achieve barrier free trade? If Australia and NZ can get a FTA with the EU, why can't the UK?

We can. But that doesn’t mean that the terms will be equal to those negotiated by the EU. Take India for example, we already have unconditional free trade with India as EU members through GSP. They want conditions such as easier movement of people just to maintain what we already have. How have we going to better our trade deal with India by leaving the EU? We aren’t. At best it’s going to be the same with us making concessions on things outside of trade, such as immigration.

This is a failing of the brexit vote, people have voted on the assumption that everyone needs us more than we need them. A myth that is very quickly unraveling. Sure we’re going to be able to kick some of the little guys but the big players are going to be kicking us. In some cases they might not even be the big players, Canada, Australia and Nrw Zealand are all doing very well without us and may just see the EU as a trading bloc more important than us.

martcov · Dec 5, 2017

Ashdown said:
You're a double of the Leicester looney we had on here, Hackney Fox !! Only he told everyone they must be BNP, rather than the more German Nazi stain !

I have not said anyone is a Nazi. I pointed out that Earlsdon's source is connected with a Swedish Nazi organisation through a far right network. Why do you think I would call anyone on here a Nazi?

I have suggested that you check out how things started in Germany. That doesn't mean that any one on here is already that far right.

Ashdown · Dec 5, 2017

martcov said:
I have not said anyone is a Nazi. I pointed out that Earlsdon's source is connected with a Swedish Nazi organisation through a far right network. Why do you think I would call anyone on here a Nazi?

I have suggested that you check out how things started in Germany. That doesn't mean that any one on here is already that far right.

My historic knowledge of WW2 and it's origins would beat you ends up any day pal.....oh and I've been to Auschwitz 1&2 for a glimpse into the real horrors of German bigotry thanks.

martcov · Dec 5, 2017

Ashdown said:
My historic knowledge of WW2 and it's origins would beat you ends up any day pal.....oh and I've been to Auschwitz 1&2 for a glimpse into the real horrors of German bigotry thanks.

Well good. I wouldn't be referring to human rights as piffling then with that knowledge. I am surprised at that attitude with your knowledge.

Ashdown · Dec 5, 2017

martcov said:
Well good. I wouldn't be referring to human rights as piffling then with that knowledge. I am surprised at that attitude with your knowledge.

Your constant reference to those two words is getting tiresome. I really meant it in relation to criminals and prisoners etc as I did go onto try and explain. For that I don't apologise either, our justice system is pathetic and run by outdated geriatric left wing morons in the main.

skybluetony176 · Dec 5, 2017

Ashdown said:
But Tony your last paragraph only becomes reality if the EU refuse us a trade deal............and they won't of course !

No it doesn’t. Cheaper oranges was one of the things the out camp touted as a reason to leave. Whether we have a trade deal with the EU or not we’ll be importing citrus fruit from places like Africa. Where there was s concern about the irrigation water used in farming containing raw sewage and industrial waste.

skybluetony176 · Dec 5, 2017

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
You two are totally stupid. Do you really believe that?

Well I read about school kids being police escorted to school in the Mail. Funnily enough they also covered the story about the unfortunate disabled lady who was gang raped so I guess that one can’t be true either according to you. Unless of course you’re picking and choosing what you believe to suit.

Ashdown · Dec 5, 2017

skybluetony176 said:
No it doesn’t. Cheaper oranges was one of the things the out camp touted as a reason to leave. Whether we have a trade deal with the EU or not we’ll be importing citrus fruit from places like Africa. Where there was s concern about the irrigation water used in farming containing raw sewage and industrial waste.

Sewage water, chemicals and pesticides what's the difference, we're being poisoned by all of the buggers one way or another !

Astute · Dec 5, 2017

skybluetony176 said:
No it doesn’t. Cheaper oranges was one of the things the out camp touted as a reason to leave. Whether we have a trade deal with the EU or not we’ll be importing citrus fruit from places like Africa. Where there was s concern about the irrigation water used in farming containing raw sewage and industrial waste.

And manure is made of what?

Sick Boy · Dec 5, 2017

Astute said:
And manure is made of what?

You have got to be on the wind up.

Astute · Dec 5, 2017

Sick Boy said:
You have got to be on the wind up.

No. It is shit.

Captain Dart · Dec 5, 2017

martcov said:
Are you saying that Britain First is not racist or islamophobe, and therefore I cannot say that, otherwise they will become racist?

Many people also see what groups such as Britain First and AfD are about and reject them completely.

Are you justifying people taking things into their own hands by stoning children because it is not as bad as rape, robbery or violent assaults?

Here is an example of stoning.
and another one
VIDEO=> Swedish Female Journalist STONED by Muslims In Stockholm
and another

Sick Boy · Dec 5, 2017

Captain Dart said:
Here is an example of stoning.

and another one
VIDEO=> Swedish Female Journalist STONED by Muslims In Stockholm

The Gateway Pundit (TGP) is a right-wing,[2][3][4][5]far-right,[6][7][8]alt-right and pro-Trump [9][10][11][12] website

Lovely.

Go of and start a Far Right thread rather than try and throw this one off track.

Captain Dart · Dec 5, 2017

Sick Boy said:
The Gateway Pundit (TGP) is a right-wing,[2][3][4][5]far-right,[6][7][8]alt-right and pro-Trump [9][10][11][12] website

Lovely.

Go of and start a Far Right thread rather than try and throw this one off track.

Are the videos fabricated?

skybluetony176 · Dec 5, 2017

Astute said:
And manure is made of what?

Treated. That’s the difference between manure and shit. You can make perfectly good manure out of human waste but let’s not pretend it’s the same thing raw sewage. It isn’t.

Ashdown · Dec 5, 2017

Captain Dart said:
Are the videos fabricated?

No answer then of course ! They live in constant denial of these bigoted cunts but anyone who points it out must be Nazis of some sort ! FFS !

clint van damme · Dec 5, 2017

Ashdown said:
No answer then of course ! They live in constant denial of these bigoted cunts but anyone who points it out must be Nazis of some sort ! FFS !

becasue there's no reply in 27 minutes you utter clown!
Captain Darts video is heavily edited. The full version is out there as is a more detailed explanation of what is going on. Still some misbehaviour from some of the Muslim crowd but the story is a bit more complex. I could post a link but if you find it yourself it might teach you to look for more reliable sources in future.

clint van damme · Dec 5, 2017

clint van damme said:
becasue there's no reply in 27 minutes you utter clown!
Captain Darts video is heavily edited. The full version is out there as is a more detailed explanation of what is going on. Still some misbehaviour from some of the Muslim crowd but the story is a bit more complex. I could post a link but if you find it yourself it might teach you to look for more reliable sources in future.

edit: I'm on about the Michigan one.

CCFCSteve · Dec 5, 2017

Does anyone know why the necessity to get certain things resolved before trade talks start ? The Irish border situation is extremely complex, not to mention emotive. Both sides say they don't want a hard border, that should be enough for now. Surely it would make more sense having cross party/negiotators discussions to try to find a workable/practical solution than trying to cobble something together for a made up deadline.

It's an important issue and deserves proper consideration. If a workable solution can't be found and agreed over the next 18 months then 'no trade deal' but there is no reason why discussions on this couldn't continue over the coming weeks/months in conjunction with the commencement of trade talks. These issues are partly interlinked after all.

chiefdave · Dec 5, 2017

Googled the area in Sweden the video refers to and an interesting article came up:
https://www.economist.com/news/euro...st-work-out-how-assimilate-them-sweden-trying
This line did make me chuckle: the troubles of areas like Tensta have been exaggerated by outsiders with an anti-immigrant agenda

Unfortunately its not as easy as migrants = crime. At its most basic refugees are likely to be very poor and therefore cluster around the poorest areas. Those are the areas most likely to be impacted by unemployment, crime, drug use etc. The key is, if you're going to accept refugees, you have to put systems in place to avoid them ending up grouped together in areas with little or no communication with the native population in low employment, high crime areas. There's only going to be one outcome there.

Think you would struggle to find anyone, even the most liberal or left wing, who believes it should be a free for all and countries should allow unlimited numbers of people in. Problem is the argument is stated in such a binary way. Instead of having one side saying they're all bad, and one saying they're not a problem wouldn't it be better to look at the actual issues, such as how we ensure we allow genuine refugees in and not imposters, and try and improve things for everyone?

Ashdown · Dec 5, 2017

clint van damme said:
becasue there's no reply in 27 minutes you utter clown!
Captain Darts video is heavily edited. The full version is out there as is a more detailed explanation of what is going on. Still some misbehaviour from some of the Muslim crowd but the story is a bit more complex. I could post a link but if you find it yourself it might teach you to look for more reliable sources in future.

Some misbehaviour, is that how you would normally refer to some of their vile murderous behaviour you stupid naive prick !

martcov · Dec 5, 2017

chiefdave said:
Googled the area in Sweden the video refers to and an interesting article came up:
https://www.economist.com/news/euro...st-work-out-how-assimilate-them-sweden-trying
This line did make me chuckle: the troubles of areas like Tensta have been exaggerated by outsiders with an anti-immigrant agenda

Unfortunately its not as easy as migrants = crime. At its most basic refugees are likely to be very poor and therefore cluster around the poorest areas. Those are the areas most likely to be impacted by unemployment, crime, drug use etc. The key is, if you're going to accept refugees, you have to put systems in place to avoid them ending up grouped together in areas with little or no communication with the native population in low employment, high crime areas. There's only going to be one outcome there.

Think you would struggle to find anyone, even the most liberal or left wing, who believes it should be a free for all and countries should allow unlimited numbers of people in. Problem is the argument is stated in such a binary way. Instead of having one side saying they're all bad, and one saying they're not a problem wouldn't it be better to look at the actual issues, such as how we ensure we allow genuine refugees in and not imposters, and try and improve things for everyone?

Yes, that is why they distribute the refugees to many different towns. Just read here that our area in Germany is wanting to move some refugees to other countries under the Dublin agreement, but some are claiming church asylum. The politicians are annoyed as the refugees m are being sent to other democratic countries not a war zone. The church is fighting for them. Seems that not everyone is against refugees... despite stories to the contrary.. The Greens think that integration would be more successful if they had their families with them and want more rights to family reunification..

martcov · Dec 5, 2017

Ashdown said:
Some misbehaviour, is that how you would normally refer to some of their vile murderous behaviour you stupid naive prick !

And you, the one who feels offended when people mention similarities to Nazis... now insulting people who are trying to politely put their ideas forward. If you know so much about the rise of Nazism, you will know that the Nazis insulted and intimidated people who didn’t agree with them. Earlsdon was playing the victim recently claiming people were insulting people with similar views to him. Once again it is the people on the right throwing insults about.

Ashdown · Dec 5, 2017

martcov said:
And you, the one who feels offended when people mention similarities to Nazis... now insulting people who are trying to politely put their ideas forward. If you know so much about the rise of Nazism, you will know that the Nazis insulted and intimidated people who didn’t agree with them. Earlsdon was playing the victim recently claiming people were insulting people with similar views to him. Once again it is the people on the right throwing insults about.

On the Right ?? Your fucking mental !

martcov · Dec 5, 2017

Ashdown said:
On the Right ?? Your fucking mental !

Really? You are the one ranting and raving and insulting people. I don’t know how you would describe someone who calls human rights piffling and shouts abuse when migrants are not criticized sharply enough. Not a liberal minded person at any rate. CD was being polite. Not excusing scum.

Astute · Dec 6, 2017

CCFCSteve said:
Does anyone know why the necessity to get certain things resolved before trade talks start ? The Irish border situation is extremely complex, not to mention emotive. Both sides say they don't want a hard border, that should be enough for now. Surely it would make more sense having cross party/negiotators discussions to try to find a workable/practical solution than trying to cobble something together for a made up deadline.

It's an important issue and deserves proper consideration. If a workable solution can't be found and agreed over the next 18 months then 'no trade deal' but there is no reason why discussions on this couldn't continue over the coming weeks/months in conjunction with the commencement of trade talks. These issues are partly interlinked after all.

I have been mentioning it on here but it got ignored as usual. Even people in the EU were saying that it should come later.

Knowing what sort of trade deal is going to be offered would make a massive difference. You could then make a plan. But they are having to make a plan without knowing the details that they have to work within.

And as I said earlier is it to make things more difficult?

clint van damme · Dec 6, 2017

[/QUOTE]Some misbehaviour, is that how you would nor
e of their vile murderous behaviour you stupid naive prick ![/QUOTE]
No. That's how I was referring to the carefully edited video with a bigger back story. If things are as bad as you say why edit a video to fit an agenda? There should be plenty of 100% verifiable material. Then people wonder why the charge of racism gets thrown around.

Astute · Dec 6, 2017

clint van damme said:
No. That's how I was referring to the carefully edited video with a bigger back story. If things are as bad as you say why edit a video to fit an agenda? There should be plenty of 100% verifiable material. Then people wonder why the charge of racism gets thrown around.

Yes, Violent Crime Has Spiked In Sweden Since Open Immigration

Grendel · Dec 6, 2017

martcov said:
And you, the one who feels offended when people mention similarities to Nazis... now insulting people who are trying to politely put their ideas forward. If you know so much about the rise of Nazism, you will know that the Nazis insulted and intimidated people who didn’t agree with them.

Sounds like the EU

clint van damme · Dec 6, 2017

Astute said:
Yes, Violent Crime Has Spiked In Sweden Since Open Immigration

And the problem with people linking alt right Twitter feeds and edited videos that fit their agenda is real news gets lost.
I've mentioned people who can give you a serious critique of Islam in the Milo thread but I think for the likes of Ashdown these alt right twitter feeds are about his level.

Astute · Dec 6, 2017

clint van damme said:
And the problem with people linking alt right Twitter feeds and edited videos that fit their agenda is real news gets lost.
I've mentioned people who can give you a serious critique of Islam in the Milo thread but I think for the likes of Ashdown these alt right twitter feeds are about his level.

How about Germany and hiding the figures as well

://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/9934/germany-rape-january

clint van damme · Dec 6, 2017

Astute said:
How about Germany and hiding the figures as well

://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/9934/germany-rape-january

if it's true it shouldn't be hidden. If it is true, it proves my point, no need to use doctored alt right bullshit if real verifiable articles are available.
Had never heard of the Gatestone Institute but Googled it doesn't look to be the most trustworthy source, though that doesn't mean it's not true on this occasion.

It has links to Geert Wilders apparently. Just a snippet from Wikipedia (itself not always the most accurate!):

The Gatestone Institute published false articles during the German federal election of 2017.[26] A Gatestone article, shared thousands of times on social media, including by senior German far-right politicians, claimed that vacant homes were being seized in Germany to provide housing solutions for "hundreds of thousands of migrants from Africa, Asia, and the Middle East."[5] The German fact-checker Correctiv.org found that this was false; a single house was placed in temporary trusteeship, and had nothing to do with refugees whatsoever.[5] Gatestone also cross-posted a Daily Mail article, which "grossly mischaracterized crime data" concerning crime by refugees in Germany.[27]

The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (16 Viewers)

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