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The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (7 Viewers)

  • Thread starter jimmyhillsfanclub
  • Start date Jun 8, 2016
Forums New posts

As of right now, how are thinking of voting? In or out

  • Remain

    Votes: 23 37.1%
  • Leave

    Votes: 35 56.5%
  • Undecided

    Votes: 3 4.8%
  • Not registered or not intention to vote

    Votes: 1 1.6%

  • Total voters
    62
  • Poll closed Jun 15, 2016.
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M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 4, 2017
  • #10,116
Kingokings204 said:
Yes again 50 times I’ve not met one leaver who wants a hard border in Ireland. It doesn’t have to happen.

Northern Ireland hasn’t been massively affected by EU rules just like Scotland. That’s why they voted to remain. It wasn’t a big remain as some would like to make out though.
Click to expand...

A damn site bigger majority than 52:48. „Work to be done“ at 52:48 according to your mate Farage.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 4, 2017
  • #10,117
Captain Dart said:
Sweden 2004 - 2014:
16% of people in Sweden are born in a foreign country.
45% of people sent to prison for crime were foreign born.
82% of people sent to prison for gangrape were foreign born.
70% of those sentenced to a 9 year prison sentence were foreign born.
Click to expand...
Everything is insignificant unless it happens against a migrant to some people. Then they will say how incidents are goung up against migrants. But the rise in racism in Germany is insignificant?

They are all part of the same thing. You shouldn't try to gloss over the attacks on racism. But you shouldn't also gloss over the cause of the attacks. But the EU lovers do it frequently.
 
Reactions: Earlsdon_Skyblue1
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 4, 2017
  • #10,118
Kingokings204 said:
Yes again 50 times I’ve not met one leaver who wants a hard border in Ireland. It doesn’t have to happen.

Northern Ireland hasn’t been massively affected by EU rules just like Scotland. That’s why they voted to remain. It wasn’t a big remain as some would like to make out though.
Click to expand...

The biggest effect on Northern Ireland was the chance to achieve a peaceful settlement, the GFA, because we were all in the EU.

Made life easier without a border.

But, that wouldn’t bother you. You think the US and China are chomping at the bit to solve all the UK‘s trade problems.

Starry eyed Brexiteer.
 
Reactions: Kingokings204
K

Kingokings204

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 4, 2017
  • #10,119
martcov said:
A damn site bigger majority than 52:48. „Work to be done“ at 52:48 according to your mate Farage.
Click to expand...

Sure about that? Less than half a million votes in difference. I thought leave won by 1.3 million votes was small?

Percentage wise wasn’t that much more either.

NI votes Remain in EU referendum
 

Captain Dart

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 4, 2017
  • #10,120
Astute said:
Everything is insignificant unless it happens against a migrant to some people. Then they will say how incidents are goung up against migrants. But the rise in racism in Germany is insignificant?

They are all part of the same thing. You shouldn't try to gloss over the attacks on racism. But you shouldn't also gloss over the cause of the attacks. But the EU lovers do it frequently.
Click to expand...
I prefer cold hard facts every time.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 4, 2017
  • #10,121
Astute said:
Everything is insignificant unless it happens against a migrant to some people. Then they will say how incidents are goung up against migrants. But the rise in racism in Germany is insignificant?

They are all part of the same thing. You shouldn't try to gloss over the attacks on racism. But you shouldn't also gloss over the cause of the attacks. But the EU lovers do it frequently.
Click to expand...

No they don’t. If anything this is a deflection from the EU thread. As with Merkel’s Syrians it has f all to do with what we were just talking about.

Shows how bad Brexit is going when people resort to throwing in Breitbart stories to get us off track.
 
Reactions: Sick Boy
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 4, 2017
  • #10,122
Kingokings204 said:
Sure about that? Less than half a million votes in difference. I thought leave won by 1.3 million votes was small?

Percentage wise wasn’t that much more either.

NI votes Remain in EU referendum
Click to expand...

Northern Ireland has voted to remain in the EU Referendum by a majority of 56% to 44%.

12% is 3 times as big as 4%.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 4, 2017
  • #10,123
Captain Dart said:
I prefer cold hard facts every time.
Click to expand...

Why do you read Breitbart then?
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Dec 4, 2017
  • #10,124
There has been some great attempts here to get us off topic and away from what is currently going on!!
 
Reactions: martcov
K

Kingokings204

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 4, 2017
  • #10,125
martcov said:
Northern Ireland has voted to remain in the EU Referendum by a majority of 56% to 44%.

12% is 3 times as big as 4%.
Click to expand...

I’m not disagreeing. Northern Ireland voted to remain.

We voted as a country though not as regions. Agreed?
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Dec 4, 2017
  • #10,126
Kingokings204 said:
I’m not disagreeing. Northern Ireland voted to remain.

We voted as a country though not as regions. Agreed?
Click to expand...

Sadly, NI's makes it a bit more complex than that.
 
Reactions: martcov
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 4, 2017
  • #10,127
Kingokings204 said:
I’m not disagreeing. Northern Ireland voted to remain.

We voted as a country though not as regions. Agreed?
Click to expand...

No. Ireland is a different case as they are directly affected. It is more than just Brexit as the GFA depends upon it. Brexit has reopened the GFA. Is it still valid after Brexit? Brexit Britain doesn’t have anything comparable. Even Scotland doesn’t have a GFA type agreement as they were not in some civil war situation.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 4, 2017
  • #10,128
Captain Dart said:
I prefer cold hard facts every time.
Click to expand...

Good.

The crime situation in Sweden compared to the US, in 4 charts
 
K

Kingokings204

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 4, 2017
  • #10,129
martcov said:
No. Ireland is a different case as they are directly affected. It is more than just Brexit as the GFA depends upon it. Brexit has reopened the GFA. Is it still valid after Brexit? Brexit Britain doesn’t have anything comparable. Even Scotland doesn’t have a GFA type agreement as they were not in some civil war situation.
Click to expand...

You don’t agree with the fact I gave? Shows you are beyond debate. I won’t bother carrying on. Shame. I will try with someone else.
 
Reactions: Astute
K

Kingokings204

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 4, 2017
  • #10,130
Sick Boy said:
Sadly, NI's makes it a bit more complex than that.
Click to expand...

Yes I agree but do you agree with the fact that we voted in a British referendum? We voted as a county yes?

Sorry it’s just vital we establish this before we can continue a debate. Mart said no we didn’t. :banghead:
 
Reactions: Astute

Captain Dart

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 4, 2017
  • #10,131
martcov said:
Good.

The crime situation in Sweden compared to the US, in 4 charts
Click to expand...

That's guns. Stupid yanks.

Even if Sweden is 'safer' it has gone downhill compared to 15years ago.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 4, 2017
  • #10,132
Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
Gigantisk databas över invandrares brott – sajten polisanmäls

There's been a leak in Sweden over crime figures that have been kept from the public, now being released.

The mainstream media and government over there are freaking out. Why? Surely there isn't a problem is there?

82% of those scentenced to prison for gang rape in Sweden in the last 10 years were migrants.

Let me guess:

1) Gang rape isn't real
2) The definition of rape has changed
3) This is just another right wing conspiracy theory
4) Earlsdon_Skyblue1 is literally hitler
Click to expand...

Your source:

Fria Tider beskriver sig som frihetligt konservativ och uppger att man hämtar inspiration från paleokonservatism och paleolibertarianism. Tidningen klassificeras i en rapport utgiven av Statens medieråd som "en del av den radikala högerpopulistiska nätmiljön" och anses ha ett uppenbart rasistiskt, främlingsfientligt och islamofobisktinnehåll.[5]

Openly racist, anti foreigner, islamophobic, highly populist... etc etc

Did you check this story with other Swedish publications? Or did you get it via Breibart without questioning it?

This is a National Socialist organisation which views democracy with extreme scepticism.

1. Gang rape is real.

2. The definition of rape in Sweden covers much more than what we call rape.

3. this is published by a National Socialist anti democratic organisation and is probably bullshit.

4. Earlsdon_Skyblue 1 is quoting reports from supporters of Adolf Hitler. So, yes he is going into the darkest territory.
 
Last edited: Dec 4, 2017
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 4, 2017
  • #10,133
Kingokings204 said:
Yes I agree but do you agree with the fact that we voted in a British referendum? We voted as a county yes?

Sorry it’s just vital we establish this before we can continue a debate. Mart said no we didn’t. :banghead:
Click to expand...

Mart said, it is more complicated in N.I. and the vote should be considered in the context of the island of Ireland- whether you interpret it that N.I. is the same as Boston, Lincs or not. It is obviously a different situation and despite Farage saying that people „just want to get on with it“, that is definitely not the case in Ireland. Nothing is going to happen quickly or without serious consequences. But you say they are all proud British ( the old plucky Brits argument ), so let’s see what happens. My tip: a disaster.
 

SIR ERNIE

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 4, 2017
  • #10,134
martcov said:
Your source:

Fria Tider beskriver sig som frihetligt konservativ och uppger att man hämtar inspiration från paleokonservatism och paleolibertarianism. Tidningen klassificeras i en rapport utgiven av Statens medieråd som "en del av den radikala högerpopulistiska nätmiljön" och anses ha ett uppenbart rasistiskt, främlingsfientligt och islamofobisktinnehåll.[5]

Openly racist, anti foreigner, islamiphobic, highly populist... etc etc

Did you check this story with other Swedish publications? Or did you get it via Breibart without questioning it

This is a National Socialist organisation which views democracy with extreme scepticism.

1. Gang rape is real.

2. The definition of rape in Sweden covers much more than what we call rape.

3. this is published by a National Socialist anti democratic organisation and is probably bullshit.

4. Earlsdon_Skyblue 1 is quoting reports from supporters of Adolf Hitler. So, yes he is going into the darkest territory.
Click to expand...

Before you criticise other posters sources, you should check your own.
The source of your post 10125 above is Aftonbladet, the pro-Russian, openly anti semetic, Swedish tabloid.
The gutter press as you love to describe it.
 
Reactions: Earlsdon_Skyblue1, Kingokings204 and Astute

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Dec 4, 2017
  • #10,135
Kingokings204 said:
Yes I agree but do you agree with the fact that we voted in a British referendum? We voted as a county yes?

Sorry it’s just vital we establish this before we can continue a debate. Mart said no we didn’t. :banghead:
Click to expand...

It was voted as a country, but this is a serious issue that was not considered before the vote. NI is a very special case and for Brexit to happen, it's unlikely that it will be able to leave on the same terms as the rest of the UK.

Apart from the no surrender poster, i'm sure that no one tunes that violence and a return to the troubles is not a price worth paying for Brexit
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 4, 2017
  • #10,136
SIR ERNIE said:
Before you criticise other posters sources, you should check your own.
The source of your post 10125 above is Aftonbladet, the pro-Russian, openly anti semetic, Swedish tabloid.
The gutter press as you love to describe it.
Click to expand...

Yes. It is. Fight fire with fire. They throw these things in. I threw one back. Dead easy to find sources that confirm that Swedeb is still safer than many countries. That was top of the list.
 
K

Kingokings204

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 4, 2017
  • #10,137
Sick Boy said:
It was voted as a country, but this is a serious issue that was not considered before the vote. NI is a very special case and for Brexit to happen, it's unlikely that it will be able to leave on the same terms as the rest of the UK.

Apart from the no surrender poster, i'm sure that no one tunes that violence and a return to the troubles is not a price worth paying for Brexit
Click to expand...

No I don’t condone violence no.

Yes it is a special case but it doesn’t take away the fact we voted as a country as you just agreed. We can’t have Northern Ireland in the SM and CU and rest of the UK out. In my opinion the DUP have rightly blocked it as it would open up doors for Scotland and London. The UK loses all integrity then.

There needs to be a special deal I agree but it can’t involve Ni being different to Britain. It is part of Great Britain for goodness sake.
 
Reactions: Astute
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 4, 2017
  • #10,138
SIR ERNIE said:
Before you criticise other posters sources, you should check your own.
The source of your post 10125 above is Aftonbladet, the pro-Russian, openly anti semetic, Swedish tabloid.
The gutter press as you love to describe it.
Click to expand...

Despite it being a tabloid, I don’t think it is comparable to the other source. They even have a troll factory in their group which is based in Tallinn. They also ‚supply‘ Finnland with ‚facts‘. They have a mission. Spread bad news about immigration, the EU, their own government and represent themselves as the voice of the „silent majority“. You guys may be rejoicing at the AfD getting 12,5%, but the real silent majority in Germany is the 87,5% who voted for democratic parties.
 

mrtrench

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 4, 2017
  • #10,139
I know full well that anecdotal evidence is not worth independently corroborated stats, but anecdotally I hear lots of horror stories from Sweden. My daugher's boyfriend is Swedish. He lives with us but obviously talks to his family often. His father says that there are entire areas of Stockholm that are no go areas now - even for the police. Last weekend his sister was mugged with a blade against her throat. I don't think it's safe there.
 
Last edited: Dec 4, 2017
Reactions: Earlsdon_Skyblue1 and Astute

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 4, 2017
  • #10,140
Captain Dart said:
That's guns. Stupid yanks.

Even if Sweden is 'safer' it has gone downhill compared to 15years ago.
Click to expand...
Most places in the world are safe when compared to parts of America. And just about every civilised country in the world is safer than America.

How about someone comparing like for like?
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 4, 2017
  • #10,141
Kingokings204 said:
No I don’t condone violence no.

Yes it is a special case but it doesn’t take away the fact we voted as a country as you just agreed. We can’t have Northern Ireland in the SM and CU and rest of the UK out. In my opinion the DUP have rightly blocked it as it would open up doors for Scotland and London. The UK loses all integrity then.

There needs to be a special deal I agree but it can’t involve Ni being different to Britain. It is part of Great Britain for goodness sake.
Click to expand...

Ffs. No it isn’t part of Britain. It is part of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Great Britain voted for Brexit and the other part of the United Kingdom didn’t. That’s the problem. A very disunited Kingdom at the moment.
 
Last edited: Dec 4, 2017

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Dec 4, 2017
  • #10,142
Kingokings204 said:
No I don’t condone violence no.

Yes it is a special case but it doesn’t take away the fact we voted as a country as you just agreed. We can’t have Northern Ireland in the SM and CU and rest of the UK out. In my opinion the DUP have rightly blocked it as it would open up doors for Scotland and London. The UK loses all integrity then.

There needs to be a special deal I agree but it can’t involve Ni being different to Britain. It is part of Great Britain for goodness sake.
Click to expand...

It's not part of Great Britain, it's part of the United Kingdom

In that case then, we will end up with a hard border.
 
Reactions: martcov

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 4, 2017
  • #10,143
Kingokings204 said:
You don’t agree with the fact I gave? Shows you are beyond debate. I won’t bother carrying on. Shame. I will try with someone else.
Click to expand...
Already given up with trying to have a debate with him on this subject.
 
Reactions: Kingokings204
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 4, 2017
  • #10,144
Astute said:
Most places in the world are safe when compared to parts of America. And just about every civilised country in the world is safer than America.

How about someone comparing like for like?
Click to expand...

Yes ok. Do you have a comparison London/ Stockholm?
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 4, 2017
  • #10,145
Kingokings204 said:
I won’t bother carrying on.
Click to expand...
A lot of people have said that in this thread and we're up to 290 pages!
 
Reactions: Kingokings204 and martcov

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Dec 4, 2017
  • #10,146
mrtrench said:
I know full well that anecdotal evidence is not worth independently correlated stats, but anecdotally I hear lots of horror stories from Sweden. My daugher's boyfriend is Swedish. He lives with us but obviously talks to his family often. His father says that there are entire areas of Stockholm that are no go areas now - even for the police. Last weekend his sister was mugged with a blade against her throat. I don't think it's safe there.
Click to expand...

Acid attacks in London? Young people being stabbed every week? All large cities have no go areas.
 
Reactions: martcov
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 4, 2017
  • #10,147
mrtrench said:
I know full well that anecdotal evidence is not worth independently correlated stats, but anecdotally I hear lots of horror stories from Sweden. My daugher's boyfriend is Swedish. He lives with us but obviously talks to his family often. His father says that there are entire areas of Stockholm that are no go areas now - even for the police. Last weekend his sister was mugged with a blade against her throat. I don't think it's safe there.
Click to expand...

I can believe that, but I take that sort of information rather than from a site with National Socialist values.
 
Reactions: Sick Boy
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 4, 2017
  • #10,148
mrtrench said:
I know full well that anecdotal evidence is not worth independently correlated stats, but anecdotally I hear lots of horror stories from Sweden. My daugher's boyfriend is Swedish. He lives with us but obviously talks to his family often. His father says that there are entire areas of Stockholm that are no go areas now - even for the police. Last weekend his sister was mugged with a blade against her throat. I don't think it's safe there.
Click to expand...

My daughter‘s Spanish boyfriend was beaten up for looking foreign and speaking Spanish in a kiosk in Hamburg. But Hamburg is still relatively safe.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 4, 2017
  • #10,149
So anyway. Where does this leave brexit? The EU are united behind Dublin and won’t accept a hard border between the North and South of Ireland and the DUP won’t accept a border between Northern Ireland and the rest of the U.K. meaning that it won’t get voted through parliament as the Tories don’t have a majority without the DUP.
 
Reactions: Kingokings204 and martcov
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 4, 2017
  • #10,150
Astute said:
Most places in the world are safe when compared to parts of America. And just about every civilised country in the world is safer than America.

How about someone comparing like for like?
Click to expand...

Crime Comparison Between Stockholm, Sweden And London, United Kingdom. Safety Comparison.

Doesn’t seem to be a lot in it. Increased faster in Stockholm in the last 3 years. I don’t know how they calculated that or how reliable the figures are.
 
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