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The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (17 Viewers)

  • Thread starter jimmyhillsfanclub
  • Start date Jun 8, 2016
Forums New posts

As of right now, how are thinking of voting? In or out

  • Remain

    Votes: 23 37.1%
  • Leave

    Votes: 35 56.5%
  • Undecided

    Votes: 3 4.8%
  • Not registered or not intention to vote

    Votes: 1 1.6%

  • Total voters
    62
  • Poll closed Jun 15, 2016.
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clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 1, 2017
  • #9,836
Kingokings204 said:
I’m stating Northern Ireland is British. No more or less. You’re going to in depth to a very complicated situation. I try and keep it simple and Northern Ireland are a British country and Ireland is a republic. There is the border problem to solve as a result.

I don’t want to go into every Irish citizen and ask them as I don’t have the time these days.:wideyed:
Click to expand...

it's not a simple issue so trying to keep it simple is pointless.
As for going to every Irish citizen, they had a referendum to change their constitution and rescind their claim to the 6 counties that constitute the North.
To install a hard border goes against that referendum as well as the GFA. I thought Brexiteers knew this as they knew exactly what they were voting for?
 
Reactions: martcov

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 1, 2017
  • #9,837
chiefdave said:
Wouldn't every single person who was banging on about taking back control of our borders want and expect there to be a hard border complete with passport checks and all the usual immigration controls you'd expect when entering another country?
Click to expand...

I’ve been to loads of non Eu countries in the last few years and other than one big queue access is easier than getting through Paris or Amsterdam passport control.

I don’t know what you are on about.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 1, 2017
  • #9,838
Sick Boy said:
I know a few people from the north who prefer to describe themselves as Northern Irish, not British. They also want NI to remain in the CU and SM. It's not going to be possible for NI to leave both and avoid a hard border.
Click to expand...
I know Scottish people who prefer to describe themselves as being Scottish and not British.

I know Welsh people who prefer to describe themselves as Welsh and not British.

I know People from England who prefer to describe themselves as English and not British.

And they are all in my family.

Nothing wrong with being patriotic. Or should we just have a GB football team?

Or should we quickly built hard borders?
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 1, 2017
  • #9,839
Sick Boy said:
Do you? It doesn't sound like it

You don't need a passport to cross in Ireland, which I believe he is referring to.
Click to expand...
So you didn't read what I said. How unusual.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 1, 2017
  • #9,840
Funny thing is Sick Boy predicts Scottish independence in the next few years. As they will immediately apply to rejoin the EU that means a hard border.

So he seems not to see it as an issue

The term hard border conjures up images of iron gates, barbed wire, snarling alsatians and sinister security guards - and deliberately so.

How very silly.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 1, 2017
  • #9,841
Sick Boy said:
That has nothing to do with what Dave posted whatsoever. Why not join in the debate and demonatrate your neutrality rather than coming out with soundbites from the Mail?
Click to expand...
Isn't it strange how you twist what is said and then Mart agrees with you.

Dave said that we were not told of the implications of us leaving. Most of us would agree. All we were told was things to put enough fear into us that would make us vote remain.

So what did you hear being said that was different? Because both sides did project fear and nothing else.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 1, 2017
  • #9,842
skybluetony176 said:
You don’t need photographic proof of who you are to cross from north to south. The only reason you need photographic evidence of who you are to cross the water into Ireland is as a result of the September 11th attacks and zero to do with anything discussed. If you flew to Newcastle from Birmingham you need the same photographic evidence of who you are.
Click to expand...
Who said from North to South? Making it up as you go along again. You don't need a passport as I said but you need photographic proof to be safe. So most already take their passport as I said.

Common Travel Area between Ireland and the United Kingdom

Do you still want to try and prove me wrong yet again and fail?

And yet again someone is wrong and Mart agrees with them.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 1, 2017
  • #9,843
Astute said:
Who said from North to South? Making it up as you go along again. You don't need a passport as I said but you need photographic proof to be safe. So most already take their passport as I said.

Common Travel Area between Ireland and the United Kingdom

Do you still want to try and prove me wrong yet again and fail?

And yet again someone is wrong and Mart agrees with them.
Click to expand...

The problem and conversation is about traveling between north and south not the issues of boarding a plane post 9/11. You should at least try and make it relevant if you’re going to join in a conversation. At least KOK understands what’s being discussed even if we don’t agree on solutions.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 1, 2017
  • #9,844
Astute said:
Who said from North to South? Making it up as you go along again. You don't need a passport as I said but you need photographic proof to be safe. So most already take their passport as I said.

Common Travel Area between Ireland and the United Kingdom

Do you still want to try and prove me wrong yet again and fail?

And yet again someone is wrong and Mart agrees with them.
Click to expand...

I never disputed the free travel area. I am interested how that will work if we have a hard Brexit. We’ve had it since the 20s, and it continued whilst we were both in the EU. Now we have a new situation. Why would the 27 allow this in the case of hard Brexit? Don’t quote Norway as they have free movement.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 1, 2017
  • #9,845
skybluetony176 said:
The problem and conversation is about traveling between north and south not the issues of boarding a plane post 9/11. You should at least try and make it relevant if you’re going to join in a conversation. At least KOK understands what’s being discussed even if we don’t agree on solutions.
Click to expand...
What has 9/11 got to do with it?

Nothing.

But you don't want to admit being wrong as usual.
 
K

Kingokings204

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 1, 2017
  • #9,846
martcov said:
The border will be clearer, but not clear cut? Explain.
Click to expand...

I just meant it’s not clear cut at the moment but in time it will become clearer. In my opinion a solution will be found.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 1, 2017
  • #9,847
Kingokings204 said:
I just meant it’s not clear cut at the moment but in time it will become clearer. In my opinion a solution will be found.
Click to expand...

Of course a solution will be found. This whole conversation is about what it will be. I’m for moving the border to the sea as that would be easiest to control and keep the GFA in effect.

The DUP will jump up and down, but they will have to respect the GFA and the vote for border controls through Brexit.

ROI and the EU don’t want a border on their territory. We want border control, so it will have to be between Brexit Britain and Remain NI and the ROI.

Enjoy.
 
Reactions: skybluetony176 and clint van damme

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 1, 2017
  • #9,848
Astute said:
What has 9/11 got to do with it?

Nothing.

But you don't want to admit being wrong as usual.
Click to expand...

I have been travelling to Ireland by sea and air to both Belfast and Dublin my whole life, that’s 43 years. And I’m telling you that I never once had to show photo identification pre 9/11. In fact I didn’t even have a passport until I was 19 for the first time I traveled abroad. That’s at least 19 times (sometimes we’d go twice in a year) pre 9/11 with no photo ID available if I did have to show it, which I didn’t. 9/11 changed everything except the north/south border and its the north/south border that’s likely to change because of brexit. Try telling me I’m wrong when you have an idea of what you’re talking about.
 
Reactions: martcov

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 1, 2017
  • #9,849
martcov said:
Of course a solution will be found. This whole conversation is about what it will be. I’m for moving the border to the sea as that would be easiest to control and keep the GFA in effect.

The DUP will jump up and down, but they will have to respect the GFA and the vote for border controls through Brexit.

ROI and the EU don’t want a border on their territory. We want border control, so it will have to be between Brexit Britain and Remain NI and the ROI.

Enjoy.
Click to expand...
Channel four did a thing recently where they gave a load of English people a blank map of Ireland and asked them to draw where the north south border was. Unsurprisingly hardly any of them knew. Certainly no one drew it on the coast separating two U.K. countries and that’s a real prospect. An EU border dividing the UK. I wonder how many of the we know what we voted for mob voted for that? Or even considered it.
 
Reactions: martcov

jimmyhillsfanclub

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 1, 2017
  • #9,850
skybluetony176 said:
Protestants voted remain on mass
Click to expand...

No....no they didn't.

Catholics voted to remain......Protestants voted to leave.

https://www.qub.ac.uk/brexit/Brexitfilestore/Filetoupload,728121,en.pdf



As for anecdotal evidence, I used to travel to Derry 4 times per year for work, as well as Belfast, Cork, Limerick & Dublin on many occasions both pre & post the Good Friday agreement........I have ALWAYS had to show photo ID........maybe I just look dodgy
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 1, 2017
  • #9,851
jimmyhillsfanclub said:
No....no they didn't.

Catholics voted to remain......Protestants voted to leave.

https://www.qub.ac.uk/brexit/Brexitfilestore/Filetoupload,728121,en.pdf



As for anecdotal evidence, I used to travel to Derry 4 times per year for work, as well as Belfast, Cork, Limerick & Dublin on many occasions both pre & post the Good Friday agreement........I have ALWAYS had to show photo ID........maybe I just look dodgy
Click to expand...

You should probably read what you link before you link it. You’ve just disproved your own post with the evidence that you’ve linked. Still, saved me the job. Cheers.
 

jimmyhillsfanclub

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 1, 2017
  • #9,852
skybluetony176 said:
You should probably read what you link before you link it. You’ve just disproved your own post with the evidence that you’ve linked. Still, saved me the job. Cheers.
Click to expand...

I don't see how.....it says....

Catholics overwhelmingly voted to stay by a proportion of 85 to 15 while Protestants voted to leave by a proportion of 60 to 40. Similarly, two thirds of self-described ‘unionists’ voted to leave while almost 90 percent of self-described ‘nationalists’ voted to remain
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 1, 2017
  • #9,853
skybluetony176 said:
I have been travelling to Ireland by sea and air to both Belfast and Dublin my whole life, that’s 43 years. And I’m telling you that I never once had to show photo identification pre 9/11. In fact I didn’t even have a passport until I was 19 for the first time I traveled abroad. That’s at least 19 times (sometimes we’d go twice in a year) pre 9/11 with no photo ID available if I did have to show it, which I didn’t. 9/11 changed everything except the north/south border and its the north/south border that’s likely to change because of brexit. Try telling me I’m wrong when you have an idea of what you’re talking about.
Click to expand...
Who do you travel with? They need reporting.

://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/moving_country/moving_abroad/freedom_of_movement_within_the_eu/common_travel_area_between_ireland_and_the_uk.html

Would you like to explain this then?
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 1, 2017
  • #9,854
jimmyhillsfanclub said:
I don't see how.....it says....

Catholics overwhelmingly voted to stay by a proportion of 85 to 15 while Protestants voted to leave by a proportion of 60 to 40. Similarly, two thirds of self-described ‘unionists’ voted to leave while almost 90 percent of self-described ‘nationalists’ voted to remain
Click to expand...
Looks like he is digging a hole so deep that he will be in Australia soon.
 
Reactions: Kingokings204

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 1, 2017
  • #9,855
Even the Brexit Committee of MP's set up to oversee Brexit say that goverment proposals aren't workable on the Irish Border.

MPs doubt Brexit Irish border fix
 
Reactions: martcov

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 1, 2017
  • #9,856
skybluetony176 said:
Even the Brexit Committee of MP's set up to oversee Brexit say that goverment proposals aren't workable on the Irish Border.

MPs doubt Brexit Irish border fix
Click to expand...
And as usual MP's are clueless until you find an article that goes with what you say. Then suddenly they know everything.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 1, 2017
  • #9,857
Astute said:
Who do you travel with? They need reporting.

://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/moving_country/moving_abroad/freedom_of_movement_within_the_eu/common_travel_area_between_ireland_and_the_uk.html

Would you like to explain this then?
Click to expand...

The clue is in your own link you moron. Try reading it again and try reading some of the links within the page itself. It wasn't written in stone in the 1920's never to be changed. It's been amended many times to accommodate changes not just in Ireland and the UK but also the world. You're just reading a guide to the current post 9/11 post GFA version of it. Are you really this stupid or is it an act?
 
Reactions: Sick Boy and martcov

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 1, 2017
  • #9,858
Astute said:
And as usual MP's are clueless until you find an article that goes with what you say. Then suddenly they know everything.
Click to expand...

This is MP's saying MP's are clueless. Not really sure what point you think you are making.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 1, 2017
  • #9,859
Astute said:
Looks like he is digging a hole so deep that he will be in Australia soon.
Click to expand...

Oh, the irony.
 
Reactions: Sick Boy and martcov

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 1, 2017
  • #9,860
jimmyhillsfanclub said:
I don't see how.....it says....

Catholics overwhelmingly voted to stay by a proportion of 85 to 15 while Protestants voted to leave by a proportion of 60 to 40. Similarly, two thirds of self-described ‘unionists’ voted to leave while almost 90 percent of self-described ‘nationalists’ voted to remain
Click to expand...

Because you said Protestants voted to leave, although you have just acknowledged 40% didn't.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 1, 2017
  • #9,861
skybluetony176 said:
The clue is in your own link you moron. Try reading it again and try reading some of the links within the page itself. It wasn't written in stone in the 1920's never to be changed. It's been amended many times to accommodate changes not just in Ireland and the UK but also the world. You're just reading a guide to the current post 9/11 post GFA version of it. Are you really this stupid or is it an act?
Click to expand...
Moron?

Show some evidence then.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 1, 2017
  • #9,862
skybluetony176 said:
This is MP's saying MP's are clueless. Not really sure what point you think you are making.
Click to expand...
MP's are clueless. Agreed?
 

jimmyhillsfanclub

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 1, 2017
  • #9,863
Astute said:
Looks like he is digging a hole so deep that he will be in Australia soon.
Click to expand...

I see Tony has attempted to gloss over the fact that he was completely wrong about the protestant vote......

.....and then gloss over his piss poor attempt to discredit my evidence by accusing me of not reading my own link......which clearly he didn't read himself....or maybe he just didn't understand it.

Anyway......Happy Friday Folks.
 
Reactions: Grendel, Kingokings204, bezzer and 1 other person

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 1, 2017
  • #9,864
skybluetony176 said:
Because you said Protestants voted to leave, although you have just acknowledged 40% didn't.
Click to expand...
So what is a 60/40 vote then?
 
Reactions: jimmyhillsfanclub

Captain Dart

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 1, 2017
  • #9,865
skybluetony176 said:
Channel four did a thing recently where they gave a load of English people a blank map of Ireland and asked them to draw where the north south border was. Unsurprisingly hardly any of them knew. Certainly no one drew it on the coast separating two U.K. countries and that’s a real prospect. An EU border dividing the UK. I wonder how many of the we know what we voted for mob voted for that? Or even considered it.
Click to expand...

Watch as British people struggle to draw where Irish border is
 

jimmyhillsfanclub

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 1, 2017
  • #9,866
skybluetony176 said:
Because you said Protestants voted to leave, although you have just acknowledged 40% didn't.
Click to expand...

Ha ha.....I posted a link to evidence that proved you were talking out of your arse.........just admit you were wrong & move on.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 1, 2017
  • #9,867
jimmyhillsfanclub said:
I see Tony has attempted to gloss over the fact that he was completely wrong about the protestant vote......

.....and then gloss over his piss poor attempt to discredit my evidence by accusing me of not reading my own link......which clearly he didn't read himself....or maybe he just didn't understand it.

Anyway......Happy Friday Folks.
Click to expand...
Just a normal day for Tony the Tory :smuggrin:
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 1, 2017
  • #9,868
Kingokings204 said:
We as leavers do want border controls. I repeat I don’t know one leaver who wants a border with Ireland.
Click to expand...
But you can't have both. You either have border controls or you retain the open border between NI and ROI. That's where the border between the UK and EU will be.
Grendel said:
I’ve been to loads of non Eu countries in the last few years and other than one big queue access is easier than getting through Paris or Amsterdam passport control.
Click to expand...
But that's the point. You say when you go to those counties there is a big queue. What about the 35K people who work on the other side of the border to which they live. Are they all expect to queue up twice a day?
 
Reactions: Sick Boy and martcov

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 1, 2017
  • #9,869
jimmyhillsfanclub said:
Ha ha.....I posted a link to evidence that proved you were talking out of your arse.........just admit you were wrong & move on.
Click to expand...
You have more chance of Juncker admitting his part in the massive tax dodge for Luxembourg than of Tony the Tory admitting he is wrong. And we know that as he has enough opportunities to do so.
 
Reactions: Kingokings204

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 1, 2017
  • #9,870
Astute said:
Moron?

Show some evidence then.
Click to expand...

You've shown the evidence yourself. It lists some of the amendment in your own link. There is even Links within your link to the amendments, It talks about dates when further agreements have been made, It talks about dates when agreements end, it talks about Indian and Chinese immigrant rights between the UK and Ireland, amendments that have just come into force in the last 2-3 years. Please tell me this is an act, you really not that stupid that you post up links that discredit yourself and you don't even realise.
 
Reactions: martcov
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