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The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (17 Viewers)

  • Thread starter jimmyhillsfanclub
  • Start date Jun 8, 2016
Forums New posts

As of right now, how are thinking of voting? In or out

  • Remain

    Votes: 23 37.1%
  • Leave

    Votes: 35 56.5%
  • Undecided

    Votes: 3 4.8%
  • Not registered or not intention to vote

    Votes: 1 1.6%

  • Total voters
    62
  • Poll closed Jun 15, 2016.
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Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Nov 25, 2017
  • #9,381
SIR ERNIE said:
All my products state 'Made in UK'. There's no reference to the EU on them although they're 100% compliant with EU regulations and as a consequence I distribute them through the EU including Germany, Austria, Netherlands, Poland, Italy, Sweden and Bulgaria.

Interestingly, a couple of years ago my major US customer requested that we have the Union Flag and 'Made in UK' printed prominently on the front of the packs because US customers see it as a statement of style and quality.
Click to expand...

They make a big point of doing the same in Italy, it has connotations of superior quality.
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 25, 2017
  • #9,382
SIR ERNIE said:
Compliancy with EU regulations is all that matters.
Click to expand...
You're saying is that UK manufacturers will still have to adhere to EU regulations to be able to export to the EU?

So much for taking back control!
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 25, 2017
  • #9,383
This doesn't sound too promising
Australia knocks UK Brexit trade plan
 
Reactions: martcov

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 25, 2017
  • #9,384
chiefdave said:
This doesn't sound too promising
Australia knocks UK Brexit trade plan
Click to expand...

New Zealand concur with Australia and US, Brazil and Canada have also expressed concern over split quotas. The US? Ah, this must be what it means to be at the front of the queue.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 25, 2017
  • #9,385
skybluetony176 said:
New Zealand concur with Australia and US, Brazil and Canada have also expressed concern over split quotas. The US? Ah, this must be what it means to be at the front of the queue.
Click to expand...

Yes. It is funny ( strange ) that we had to vote leave to learn about these problems. Would it not have been cleverer to do a thorough assessment - impact reports - before putting it to the vote?
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 25, 2017
  • #9,386
martcov said:
Yes. It is funny ( strange ) that we had to vote leave to learn about these problems. Would it not have been cleverer to do a thorough assessment - impact reports - before putting it to the vote?
Click to expand...

The major failings of both campaigns. Neither told you why should vote for them instead choosing to campaign on why you shouldn’t vote for the other. If you read both campaigns and took what they said at face value you wouldn’t have voted for either. There was very little in either campaign to make an informed decision on. Which probably explains why we’re in a mess. No one involved in overseeing brexit bothered finding out either and are just finding out now.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 25, 2017
  • #9,387
Sick Boy said:
It's strange you have never mentioned the positives or ever argued against anyone who is pro-Brexit.
Click to expand...
Its strange that you never see any positives if there is a negative in there. You have tunnel vision on defending the EU.

It is the same as those who will defend the EU until their last dying breath. We.should not be leaving. Corbyn is a charismatic bloke and should be Labour leader. But they can't explain how the two go togerher as he has always wanted out of the EU. It is like turkeys voting for Xmas.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 25, 2017
  • #9,388
Sick Boy said:
It's strange you have never mentioned the positives or ever argued against anyone who is pro-Brexit.
Click to expand...
Because nearly every comment on here is from about 5 of you that won't even admit that both sides lied on the run up to the vote with Mart backing up any old bullshit.
 

Captain Dart

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 25, 2017
  • #9,389
martcov said:
Why is our gdp set to decline each year over the next years according to the chancellor?
Click to expand...
A forecast by the OBR, they are always wrong.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 25, 2017
  • #9,390
Astute said:
Because nearly every comment on here is from about 5 of you that won't even admit that both sides lied on the run up to the vote with Mart backing up any old bullshit.
Click to expand...

You are the one who claims Juncker is the president of Europe and that he is planning an EU army. You even posted his quote that an army was not happening and asked me to agree that he said is was happening.

I think those examples come under the category „any old bullshit“.
 
Reactions: Sick Boy

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 25, 2017
  • #9,391
Captain Dart said:
A forecast by the OBR, they are always wrong.
Click to expand...

Are you saying that it could be worse?

It is worth noting though that no forecast ever was 100% accurate, it is what it is. A forecast based on a set of provided data. Where do the OBR get that data from? Pretty much exclusively the government. It’s a forecast based on government figures. IIRC they’re usually a two year forecast so when the forecast is written it’s on data set at a certain time. Policy changes happen all the time, there wasn’t a magic money tree and now there is, the NI fiasco in the last budget that the government had to immediately climb down on just to name two.

So yes things might not end up being as bad as the forecast but equally for all of the above reasons they might also be worse. I wouldn’t start celebrating yet.

You would also have to ask if a government was providing data to an independent body to do a forecast aren’t they always going to try and make the data provided be as positive as possible rather than negative? No government is going to deliberately provide data to make it look like they’re failing are they. If this is as good as the data generated could make it look that’s worrying.
 
Last edited: Nov 25, 2017
Reactions: martcov
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 25, 2017
  • #9,392
Astute said:
Its strange that you never see any positives if there is a negative in there. You have tunnel vision on defending the EU.

It is the same as those who will defend the EU until their last dying breath. We.should not be leaving. Corbyn is a charismatic bloke and should be Labour leader. But they can't explain how the two go togerher as he has always wanted out of the EU. It is like turkeys voting for Xmas.
Click to expand...

Turkeys voting for Christmas... yes, well... up until now nothing good has happened as a result of Brexit. Nearly every day another problem or disadvantage crops up.

Sounds like the turkeys have indeed voted.
 
Reactions: Sick Boy

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 25, 2017
  • #9,393
martcov said:
Sounds like the turkeys have indeed voted.
Click to expand...

And as we know two turkeys do not an eagle make
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 25, 2017
  • #9,394
skybluetony176 said:
The major failings of both campaigns. Neither told you why should vote for them instead choosing to campaign on why you shouldn’t vote for the other. If you read both campaigns and took what they said at face value you wouldn’t have voted for either. There was very little in either campaign to make an informed decision on. Which probably explains why we’re in a mess. No one involved in overseeing brexit bothered finding out either and are just finding out now.
Click to expand...
Which is what I have said from the start.

It was more like project fear on both sides. But what made it so different was Tories were backing Labour lies and Labour were backing Tory lies. Lies from both sides were so obvious. But they were still backed up by those from the other party. If we stayed in English wouldn't be thw first language anymore. If we left we would go to war. If we voted stay we would have our job taken by someone from the EU. If we voted leave we would lose our job. If we voted stay all housing would go to those from the EU. If we voted leave house values would plummet.

So what did you fear the most?

Reality was there was good things about leaving and good things about remaining. And there would have been a shitfest whichever way the vote went.
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Nov 25, 2017
  • #9,395
At least we have the £350m a week for the NHS.
 
Reactions: martcov

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 25, 2017
  • #9,396
skybluetony176 said:
Are you saying that it could be worse?

It is worth noting though that no forecast ever was 100% accurate, it is what it is. A forecast based on a set of provided data. Where do the OBR get that data from? Pretty much exclusively the government. It’s a forecast based on government figures. IIRC they’re usually a two year forecast so when the forecast is written it’s on data set at a certain time. Policy changes happen all the time, there wasn’t a magic money tree and now there is, the NI fiasco in the last budget that the government had to immediately climb down on just to name two.

So yes things might not end up being as bad as the forecast but equally for all of the above reasons they might also be worse. I wouldn’t start celebrating yet.

You would also have to ask if a government was providing data to an independent body to do a forecast aren’t they always going to try and make the data provided be as positive as possible rather than negative? No government is going to deliberately provide data to make it look like they’re failing are they. If this is as good as the data generated could make it look that’s worrying.
Click to expand...
Governments always hide the bad news and inflate the good news. They twist the average news to make it sound good. Nothing new there.

Nobody should celebrate anything. Just like nobody should say how shit it will be. I still think we will have a few years of difficulties before climbing back up again. There is a chance of it being shit all the way or being great from the start. But I can only see each having a slight chance.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 25, 2017
  • #9,397
Sick Boy said:
At least we have the £350m a week for the NHS.
Click to expand...
At least the NHS will cope once half of the EU doesn't want to come here to live.
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Nov 25, 2017
  • #9,398
Astute said:
Governments always hide the bad news and inflate the good news. They twist the average news to make it sound good. Nothing new there.

Nobody should celebrate anything. Just like nobody should say how shit it will be. I still think we will have a few years of difficulties before climbing back up again. There is a chance of it being shit all the way or being great from the start. But I can only see each having a slight chance.
Click to expand...

Why should people not be allowed to say it will be great or a disaster? It's their opinion after all.
 
Reactions: martcov

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 25, 2017
  • #9,399
There you go. I am biased because I replied to a pro EU post. You mentioned the same lie that must have been mentioned a thousand times on this thread. And I balanced it with another lie.
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Nov 25, 2017
  • #9,400
Astute said:
At least the NHS will cope once half of the EU doesn't want to come here to live.
Click to expand...

Blimey, I didn't know the government was telling lies about the population of the UK!

Good luck without migrants to come in and help the country out in its crucial services. At least then you won't be able to blame immigrants of everything.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 25, 2017
  • #9,401
Sick Boy said:
Blimey, I didn't know the government was telling lies about the population of the UK!

Good luck without migrants to come in and help the country out in its crucial services. At least then you won't be able to blame immigrants of everything.
Click to expand...

They’ll be blamed for leaving.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 25, 2017
  • #9,402
Sick Boy said:
Why should people not be allowed to say it will be great or a disaster? It's their opinion after all.
Click to expand...
And what is wrong with my opinion?

Mine looks one sided because I call out the lies. I try to balance things. This thread is 95% pro EU. No country in the EU is 95% pro EU. There are major problems with the EU. Like there are good reasons to be in the EU.

I would prefer to debate the good and bad. Instead it comes down to the same old bullshit.
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Nov 25, 2017
  • #9,403
Astute said:
And what is wrong with my opinion?

Mine looks one sided because I call out the lies. I try to balance things. This thread is 95% pro EU. No country in the EU is 95% pro EU. There are major problems with the EU. Like there are good reasons to be in the EU.

I would prefer to debate the good and bad. Instead it comes down to the same old bullshit.
Click to expand...

This thread is not 95% pro-EU. it's regular contributors are on each side.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 25, 2017
  • #9,404
Sick Boy said:
Blimey, I didn't know the government was telling lies about the population of the UK!

Good luck without migrants to come in and help the country out in its crucial services. At least then you won't be able to blame immigrants of everything.
Click to expand...
That was the bullshit that came out at the same time as the other bullshit like the 350m a week bus. But of course you want to make out that it is my view :banghead:
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Nov 25, 2017
  • #9,405
Astute said:
That was the bullshit that came out at the same time as the other bullshit like the 350m a week bus. But of course you want to make out that it is my view :banghead:
Click to expand...

You've claimed similar on this thread before for us all to see. You claimed migrants were to blame for there being no spaces at a hospital.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 25, 2017
  • #9,406
Sick Boy said:
This thread is not 95% pro-EU. it's regular contributors are on each side.
Click to expand...
Go back and look. Most have left the thread because of the pro EU bullshit. EU good anything else is bullshit. No debate.
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Nov 25, 2017
  • #9,407
Astute said:
Go back and look. Most have left the thread because of the pro EU bullshit. EU good anything else is bullshit. No debate.
Click to expand...

You're making it up as you go along. Most of them will have left as the debate has gone round in about a thousand circles.
 
Reactions: martcov

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 25, 2017
  • #9,408
Sick Boy said:
You've claimed similar on this thread before for us all to see. You claimed migrants were to blame for there being no spaces at a hospital.
Click to expand...
Bring it up then.

I have said that it will get worse in some areas. I have never said it will suddenly get better. I lost my stepdad because of what has happened to Boston hospital. Look at the population of Boston. Oh dear. I am anti EU because of mentioning it.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 25, 2017
  • #9,409
Sick Boy said:
You're making it up as you go along. Most of them will have left as the debate has gone round in about a thousand circles.
Click to expand...
And the 350m battle bus is the most mentioned out of anything. How many times have you mentioned it yourself?
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 25, 2017
  • #9,410
Astute said:
At least the NHS will cope once half of the EU doesn't want to come here to live.
Click to expand...

What about our aging population? That will put pressure on the NHS.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 25, 2017
  • #9,411
Astute said:
And the 350m battle bus is the most mentioned out of anything. How many times have you mentioned it yourself?
Click to expand...

Anyone writing a massive promise on a massive red bus and then touring around with it should expect to be called out and ridiculed for the foreseeable future.
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Nov 25, 2017
  • #9,412
Astute said:
Bring it up then.

I have said that it will get worse in some areas. I have never said it will suddenly get better. I lost my stepdad because of what has happened to Boston hospital. Look at the population of Boston. Oh dear. I am anti EU because of mentioning it.
Click to expand...

Yes, of course all the problems with the NHS are down to immigrants and nothing to do with a continued lack of investment to keep up with a growing and ageing population. It's much easier to blame migrants, especially eastern Europeans.
 
Reactions: martcov

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 25, 2017
  • #9,413
Sick Boy said:
Yes, of course all the problems with the NHS are down to immigrants and nothing to do with a continued lack of investment to keep up with a growing and ageing population. It's much easier to blame migrants, especially eastern Europeans.
Click to expand...
All?

So who said all? Just shows how impossible it is to have a debate on this thread. I think it would be better to leave this thread to all you that are pro EU so you can say how much leaving will be a disaster and nothing good can come frim leaving. You can then concentrate on the back slapping.
 

Captain Dart

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 26, 2017
  • #9,414
Hope this is true.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 26, 2017
  • #9,415
Captain Dart said:
Hope this is true.
Click to expand...

Why? We need stability in Europe more than ever. Merkel is meeting with the SPD on Monday. The branch of the youth movement in Düsseldorf is not exactly her own party turning against her. So wait and see.
 
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