How long is a piece of string?what is your definition of short and long term?
I don't think a decade plus is short term, (though in the grand scheme of things it probably is). You may think it will turn around before that, if so what do you base that on?
I will try once more with you on seeing if you can have an honest debate on the subject before I ignore you like I am with Mart.
Like where?
The EU don't alliw us to make trade deals with any country in the world. We still can't make any now until we have left.
The EU only has about 10% of the world population. And they would like a trade deal with us. We buy more than we sell. Are you saying that the other 90% of the world won't want to have trade deals with us once we are allowed to have them when most of our trade is already outside the EU without having trade deals?
I agree. A lot of our manufacturing has moved to cheaper places including around the EU. The quality has gone right down as well. The things we used to buy that you would replace years later when still working are replaced with items that don't last long. We need to get back to quality manufacturing where people buy our goods because of the quality.
It could say the UK if only packaged here.I have goods from various EU countries that are labelled as being made in their country of origin. I also have products that are labelled made in England.
How long is a piece of string?
Short term a few years. It all depends on what sort of deal there is. A good deal and we might not even notice the difference. Neither would the countries that sell to us. But it isn't down to the business leaders who do want a good deal.
It was supposed to be an instant disaster if we voted leave. Nearly all of it was wrong. Yes the £ took a hit. But that was bound to happen. Financial markets don't like uncertainty. But what about everything else we were told would happen?
No stock market crash
No house price crash
Unemployment didn't shoot up
Yes the opposite happened. All we can do is make predictions. Our productivity went up because the £ went down. Our goods became cheaper around the world. Their products cost more. If the £ goes down again our goods get even cheaper. That is how money markets work. That is how Germany has a massive advantage being in the Euro and the weaker countries a massive disadvantage.
It could say the UK if only packaged here.
It isn't the disagreeing. It is the crap that comes with not wanting to admit being wrong and constant accusations. The not wanting to see anything they don't want to agree with. The impossibility of having a proper debate.Why ignore someone you disagree with? It's better I debate rather than just ignore the other's opinion.
I agree. A lot of our manufacturing has moved to cheaper places including around the EU. The quality has gone right down as well. The things we used to buy that you would replace years later when still working are replaced with items that don't last long. We need to get back to quality manufacturing where people buy our goods because of the quality.
It isn't the disagreeing. It is the crap that comes with not wanting to admit being wrong and constant accusations. The not wanting to see anything they don't want to agree with. The impossibility of having a proper debate.
This depends on the trade deal with the EU. But UK quality is seen as better than EU. They know where it is coming from.
I also work in manufacturing for a worldwide company. Our profits in the UK are massively better than in the rest of the EU. The problem that the UK has is we will need to bring manufacturing back into the UK.
Wouldn't we all.if we leave the EU with a deal I will be a lot more optimistic about the future even though I still think we will have a rocky road ahead.
I think no deal will be disastrous.
Which of the grey areas on this map where the EU don't have a trade deal do you think are a rich vein to tap?
View attachment 8433
Aren’t the EU and Australia about to start trade negotiations? That leaves Russia and Antarctica from what I can see, maybe North Korea.
Indeed, there's also an issue that I read about in a Canadian paper. Canada are happy to talk to the UK about a trade deal however they won't commence talks until after we have left the EU as trade deals with the EU prohibit negotiations with an individual EU member.Aren’t the EU and Australia about to start trade negotiations?
Look at this thread again then. Most days it is a witch hunt against anyone who says anything against the EU or Corbyn. Most days it is a one sided rant and not a debate. So it keeps going around in circles.There are plenty on the other side like that but you don't seem to pull them up?
So what are these deals?Which of the grey areas on this map where the EU don't have a trade deal do you think are a rich vein to tap?
View attachment 8433
You think that the EU has good trade deals over most of the world?Aren’t the EU and Australia about to start trade negotiations? That leaves Russia and Antarctica from what I can see, maybe North Korea.
Is that supposed to be bad news for the UK?
So why did our exports go up then?
Exactly. Once we are able countries want to make deals. We haven't been allowed for years through being in the EU. And we have paid about 1.5 trillion to the EU over the years to lose this right to trade freely with the rest of the world.Indeed, there's also an issue that I read about in a Canadian paper. Canada are happy to talk to the UK about a trade deal however they won't commence talks until after we have left the EU as trade deals with the EU prohibit negotiations with an individual EU member.
Of course the same will apply elsewhere.
It was supposed to be an instant disaster if we voted leave. Nearly all of it was wrong. Yes the £ took a hit. But that was bound to happen. Financial markets don't like uncertainty. But what about everything else we were told would happen?
No stock market crash
No house price crash
Unemployment didn't shoot up
Yes the opposite happened. All we can do is make predictions. Our productivity went up because the £ went down. Our goods became cheaper around the world. Their products cost more. If the £ goes down again our goods get even cheaper. That is how money markets work. That is how Germany has a massive advantage being in the Euro and the weaker countries a massive disadvantage.
We were also told that we'd have £350m a week for the NHS; we wouldn't leave the single market; we would all be be better off fiancially; the negotiations would be the easiest in our history.
It's hardly surprising though when some were banging on about the colour of passports as being a major issue.
You think that the EU has good trade deals over most of the world?
Our trade deals will be what suits us and the other country. An EU trade deal is what suits the other country and every country in the EU. That makes a deal much harder to make. So yes I see better deals for us in many countries.They’re better than WTO which is what we’ll be mostly defaulting to when we leave. We’ve then got to negotiate a trade deal with pretty much everyone.
Do you think we’ll be able to make better deals than we were enjoying as part of the EU? Because that’s the real test here isn’t it? Anyone can make a trade deal but if our trade deal with any given country isn’t at least equal to the one we had as part of the EU then we’re pissing into the wind. Who’s got more clout on the world stage? The worlds biggest trading bloc or a single country on its own?
Our trade deals will be what suits us and the other country. An EU trade deal is what suits the other country and every country in the EU. That makes a deal much harder to make. So yes I see better deals for us in many countries.
A small lie compared to this massive scaremongery
David Cameron: Brexit could lead to Europe descending into war
and this
George Osborne: vote for Brexit and face £30bn of taxes and spending cuts
Our trade deals will be what suits us and the other country. An EU trade deal is what suits the other country and every country in the EU. That makes a deal much harder to make. So yes I see better deals for us in many countries.
Look at this thread again then. Most days it is a witch hunt against anyone who says anything against the EU or Corbyn. Most days it is a one sided rant and not a debate. So it keeps going around in circles.
I have always tried to be polite and put across good and bad from each side. Have you ever tried havi g a debate with those who have a fixed view and will defend it whatever?
A small lie compared to this massive scaremongery
David Cameron: Brexit could lead to Europe descending into war
and this
George Osborne: vote for Brexit and face £30bn of taxes and spending cuts
Our trade deals will be what suits us and the other country. An EU trade deal is what suits the other country and every country in the EU. That makes a deal much harder to make. So yes I see better deals for us in many countries.
The deals will suit the other country, not the UK.
I am not against the EU. In principle it is good. But it includes so much that is bad. And they put egos before what is best for the people of the EU.Yes quite a few times recently.
It's hardly a witch hunt against anyone, like yourself, who is against the EU. It's pretty evenly split as far as I can see. To claim otherwise is simply not true.
What makes you say that?The deals will suit the other country, not the UK.
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