The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (18 Viewers)

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 · Nov 24, 2017

skybluetony176 said:
Yes I’m aware of that. But they’ve never had to cope with 12 million non EU brits before as they’ve always gone to the EU desks.

The scenario is that 3 plane loads of Germans arrive at the same time as 3 plane loads of Brits. The Germans go to the multiple desks for EU passport holders while the 3 plane loads of Brits have to form two orderly queues at the two desks for non EU.

Doesn’t take a genius to understand that the Germans are going to be processed and putting beach towels on sun beds before the Brits. Probably why you didn’t get it.

You want the Germans to put their towels on their sunbeds before us because you hate this country, that is pretty clear.

For the record that queue of Germans will also be lining up next to another set of flights from 20 odd european countries. I was making my point of view kind of tongue in cheek, as I think it's really not a thing, but you're just absolutely adamant that you want to put down anything and everything.

It means that you are not arguing an honest debate, you want the UK to be worse off.

martcov · Nov 24, 2017

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
No, in that circumstance I was talking about open borders, but you know that.

Spain in peak season is absolutely rammed with EU tourists, significantly less nonEU ones. Come on, I know which queue I would prefer to be in!

The one with the 18 million British tourists?

skybluetony176 · Nov 24, 2017

clint van damme said:
Can't agree.
The public can have whatever opinions they want. They can be depressingly pessimistic or wildly optimistic and it won't make a jot of difference. It's what the politicians do that count.
I am still waiting for someone to give me reasons to be optimistic but no one can seem to come up with any that stand up to any sort of scrutiny.

Cheaper oranges and we can sell more pigs ears to China.

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 · Nov 24, 2017

martcov said:
The one with the 18 million British tourists?

I know Palma airport is a pretty big one, but a queue with 18 million? Have a day off!

skybluetony176 · Nov 24, 2017

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
You want the Germans to put their towels on their sunbeds before us because you hate this country, that is pretty clear.

For the record that queue of Germans will also be lining up next to another set of flights from 20 odd european countries. I was making my point of view kind of tongue in cheek, as I think it's really not a thing, but you're just absolutely adamant that you want to put down anything and everything.

It means that you are not arguing an honest debate, you want the UK to be worse off.

What a load of garbage, hate this country. What a absolutely moronic response. Has it never dawned on you that actually people are angry about brexit because they love this country. Probably not, you moron.

Astute · Nov 24, 2017

skybluetony176 said:
You know that how?

And you knew how much?

clint van damme · Nov 24, 2017

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
No, but you said there were absolutely no positives, and I just gave you one.

If you take the view that it is going to start off badly and will slowly build from there, anything else comes in as a bonus.

I am under no illusion that this is going to be difficult, but it is not 100% doom and gloom, all of the time. It will get better over time and I believe we will be better off eventually...

I honestly thought we would end up exactly where we were and the likes of myself would be asking was it worth it?
But the more I read and see the more I think it was a mistake. That's not an endorsement of the EU, it's clearly flawed, but when you allow yourself to be lead out by careerists, shysters and hypocrites then your asking for trouble and may have been better off where we were, at least in the short term.

Some on here are saying the EU will fall apart, I don't think it will but that would probably be the best outcome for us.

The rest of the world are trying to form trading blocs and we're leaving the biggest in the world without an actual plan by the look of it.

skybluetony176 · Nov 24, 2017

clint van damme said:
The rest of the world are trying to form trading blocs and we're leaving the biggest in the world without an actual plan by the look of it.

That’s exactly the problem. I struggle to understand how anyone fell for it and continues to.

Sick Boy · Nov 24, 2017

Grendel said:
Is there? Last flight I did was chaos - the auto machine queue was rammed and I went through the non EU desk which was much quicker.
Does anyone actually travel who makes this up? I go regularly through many countries and with one exception have never had issues

I've never had any problems going though the automatic gates in any country.

Sick Boy · Nov 24, 2017

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
Here's what's really going to happen:

My passport will stay exactly the same, and have the exact same powers as it did before.

Erm...no it won't. Unless freedom of movement to continue. You'll always likely need to apply online to travel from a 3Rd country once the new system becomes mandatory.

Grendel · Nov 24, 2017

Sick Boy said:
I've never had any problems going though the automatic gates in any country.

The queue at Birmingham was all the way down the corridor it was talking 40 minutes and happens regularly.

Sick Boy · Nov 24, 2017

Grendel said:
The queue at Birmingham was all the way down the corridor it was talking 40 minutes and happens regularly.

Must be a problem at Birmingham. I've only had an epassport since 2015 but have never spent more than 10 minutes waiting at passport control at Gatwick; most of the time I get through in minutes.

Grendel · Nov 24, 2017

Sick Boy said:
Must be a problem at Birmingham. I've only had an epassport since 2015 but have never spent more than 10 minutes waiting at passport control at Gatwick; most of the time I get through in minutes.

Skippoll abd De Gaulle are horrendous.

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 · Nov 24, 2017

skybluetony176 said:
What a load of garbage, hate this country. What a absolutely moronic response. Has it never dawned on you that actually people are angry about brexit because they love this country. Probably not, you moron.

Pretty twisted in which case, to love your country but then want it to suffer because a result didn't go the way you wanted.

You're a moron for that reason alone.

Sick Boy · Nov 24, 2017

Grendel said:
Skippoll abd De Gaulle are horrendous.

De Gaulle and the other small regional French airports are a nightmare. Never had problems at Amsterdam but only been over on 6am flights. Had an hour wait in Sicily once as the border guards were on lunch though.

Sick Boy · Nov 24, 2017

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
Pretty twisted in which case, to love your country but then want it to suffer because a result didn't go the way you wanted.

You're a moron for that reason alone.

No one wants it to suffer. Those of us who genuinely believe Brexit is a disaster believe it is going to negative for the country. It's completely different from wanting it to all go wrong to prove a point.

Not sure why any of this matters as apparently we are going to be under Shariah Law within 100 years.

skybluetony176 · Nov 24, 2017

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
Pretty twisted in which case, to love your country but then want it to suffer because a result didn't go the way you wanted.

You're a moron for that reason alone.

Where have I said I want it to suffer? I see it suffering and see it is going to continue to suffer and I am complaining about it you moron. If brains were dynamite you wouldn’t have enough to blow your nose.

martcov · Nov 24, 2017

clint van damme said:
I honestly thought we would end up exactly where we were and the likes of myself would be asking was it worth it?
But the more I read and see the more I think it was a mistake. That's not an endorsement of the EU, it's clearly flawed, but when you allow yourself to be lead out by careerists, shysters and hypocrites then your asking for trouble and may have been better off where we were, at least in the short term.

Some on here are saying the EU will fall apart, I don't think it will but that would probably be the best outcome for us.

The rest of the world are trying to form trading blocs and we're leaving the biggest in the world without an actual plan by the look of it.

Plus there are people looking into interference with the Brexit vote through social media including bots influencing Coventry and West Midlands voters through scaremongering. It would be good to have an enquiry into meddling by a foreign power. Russia being the obvious suspect and the EU and UK being the losers.

Grendel · Nov 24, 2017

martcov said:
Plus there are people looking into interference with the Brexit vote through social media including bots influencing Coventry and West Midlands voters through scaremongering. It would be good to have an enquiry into meddling by a foreign power. Russia being the obvious suspect and the EU and UK being the losers.

You do realise people manipulate social media from all angles? Which age bracket are more influenced by social media would you say?

martcov · Nov 24, 2017

Grendel said:
You do realise people manipulate social media from all angles? Which age bracket are more influenced by social media would you say?

Yes, I do realise that, but did you read the article in the Birmingham Mail? And do you think that Russia has a vested interest in punishing the EU for sanctions? Now you tell me which age group. I know that I read loads of posts on various sites and I am 62 as an example. You probably have some statistics.

Astute · Nov 24, 2017

clint van damme said:
I honestly thought we would end up exactly where we were and the likes of myself would be asking was it worth it?
But the more I read and see the more I think it was a mistake. That's not an endorsement of the EU, it's clearly flawed, but when you allow yourself to be lead out by careerists, shysters and hypocrites then your asking for trouble and may have been better off where we were, at least in the short term.

Some on here are saying the EU will fall apart, I don't think it will but that would probably be the best outcome for us.

The rest of the world are trying to form trading blocs and we're leaving the biggest in the world without an actual plan by the look of it.

Why is the EU having problems making trade deals? They need every country to agree. And there is always at least a country or few that makes what they want to export. One no means no deal. That means we have been missing out on trade deals with the rest of the world.

You say that the EU is the largest trading block in the world. But there are countries with nearly twice the amount of inhabitants. And our goods are well known for their quality. Even 'Made in the UK' means a lot.

You say about shysters, careerists (if there is such a word) and hypocrites in the leave mob. But they are also in the remain mob and the EU is full of them. And some wonder why I don't trust any of them.

I have said all along that we could well have a few years that are counterproductive. But with us having our own currency we have our destiny in our own hands. Short term could be dodgy. Long term stronger. The world is a big place. Our trade outside the EU is much more than inside the EU. And we are restricted because of EU rules.

Astute · Nov 24, 2017

Sick Boy said:
No one wants it to suffer. Those of us who genuinely believe Brexit is a disaster believe it is going to negative for the country. It's completely different from wanting it to all go wrong to prove a point.

Not sure why any of this matters as apparently we are going to be under Shariah Law within 100 years.

It was supposed to be an instant disaster if we voted leave. Nearly all of it was wrong. Yes the £ took a hit. But that was bound to happen. Financial markets don't like uncertainty. But what about everything else we were told would happen?

No stock market crash
No house price crash
Unemployment didn't shoot up

Yes the opposite happened. All we can do is make predictions. Our productivity went up because the £ went down. Our goods became cheaper around the world. Their products cost more. If the £ goes down again our goods get even cheaper. That is how money markets work. That is how Germany has a massive advantage being in the Euro and the weaker countries a massive disadvantage.

skybluetony176 · Nov 24, 2017

Astute said:
That means we have been missing out on trade deals with the rest of the world.

Like where?

Astute · Nov 24, 2017

Grendel said:
You do realise people manipulate social media from all angles? Which age bracket are more influenced by social media would you say?

The older generation that think a PC is a Politically Correct something?

skybluetony176 · Nov 24, 2017

Astute said:
Even 'Made in the UK' means a lot.

It does but it’s not the be all and end all. We get quote requests from all around world and the specs regularly state that all goods supplied must be accompanied with a UK or EU certificate of origin. However more often than not it’s just an EU C of O. What do companies like I work for do in that scenario? Other than fail the tender process.

skybluetony176 · Nov 24, 2017

Astute said:
The world is a big place.

It used to be but it’s getting smaller all the time. Countries like China and India are very different from when we joined the EU. The world is a far more competitive place and we aren’t the trading powerhouse we once were. In terms of manufacturing we’re tiny compared to pre EU levels.

Astute · Nov 24, 2017

skybluetony176 said:
Like where?

I will try once more with you on seeing if you can have an honest debate on the subject before I ignore you like I am with Mart.

Like where?

The EU don't alliw us to make trade deals with any country in the world. We still can't make any now until we have left.

The EU only has about 10% of the world population. And they would like a trade deal with us. We buy more than we sell. Are you saying that the other 90% of the world won't want to have trade deals with us once we are allowed to have them when most of our trade is already outside the EU without having trade deals?

Astute · Nov 24, 2017

skybluetony176 said:
It does but it’s not the be all and end all. We get quote requests from all around world and the specs regularly state that all goods supplied must be accompanied with a UK or EU certificate of origin. However more often than not it’s just an EU C of O. What do companies like I work for do in that scenario? Other than fail the tender process.

Soon our goods will have 'Made in the UK' instead of 'Made in the EU'

skybluetony176 · Nov 24, 2017

Astute said:
It was supposed to be an instant disaster if we voted leave. Nearly all of it was wrong. Yes the £ took a hit. But that was bound to happen. Financial markets don't like uncertainty. But what about everything else we were told would happen?

No stock market crash
No house price crash
Unemployment didn't shoot up

Yes the opposite happened. All we can do is make predictions. Our productivity went up because the £ went down. Our goods became cheaper around the world. Their products cost more. If the £ goes down again our goods get even cheaper. That is how money markets work. That is how Germany has a massive advantage being in the Euro and the weaker countries a massive disadvantage.

The stock markets didn’t crash because the the pound did. The top companies in the FTSE are international and when they convert foreign currency back to pounds it inflates their profits.

Yes our goods in effect cheaper on export but the flip side is that our imports have become more expensive and we’re nett importers not exporters so I’m sure I don’t need to do the maths on that for you. Also the exchange rate never stopped our international customers asking for the same discount that they expected before the pound crashed. It meant jack to them.

Astute · Nov 24, 2017

skybluetony176 said:
It used to be but it’s getting smaller all the time. Countries like China and India are very different from when we joined the EU. The world is a far more competitive place and we aren’t the trading powerhouse we once were. In terms of manufacturing we’re tiny compared to pre EU levels.

I agree. A lot of our manufacturing has moved to cheaper places including around the EU. The quality has gone right down as well. The things we used to buy that you would replace years later when still working are replaced with items that don't last long. We need to get back to quality manufacturing where people buy our goods because of the quality.

Astute · Nov 24, 2017

skybluetony176 said:
The stock markets didn’t crash because the the pound did. The top companies in the FTSE are international and when they convert foreign currency back to pounds it inflates their profits.

Yes our goods in effect cheaper on export but the flip side is that our imports have become more expensive and we’re nett importers not exporters so I’m sure I don’t need to do the maths on that for you. Also the exchange rate never stopped our international customers asking for the same discount that they expected before the pound crashed. It meant jack to them.

So why did our exports go up then?

skybluetony176 · Nov 24, 2017

Astute said:
Soon our goods will have 'Made in the UK' instead of 'Made in the EU'

Our goods were I work have always said made in the UK. That isn’t the problem. The problem is that made in the U.K. will no longer mean made in the EU. and at times that’s going to deny UK companies access to market.

clint van damme · Nov 24, 2017

Astute said:
Why is the EU having problems making trade deals? They need every country to agree. And there is always at least a country or few that makes what they want to export. One no means no deal. That means we have been missing out on trade deals with the rest of the world.

You say that the EU is the largest trading block in the world. But there are countries with nearly twice the amount of inhabitants. And our goods are well known for their quality. Even 'Made in the UK' means a lot.

You say about shysters, careerists (if there is such a word) and hypocrites in the leave mob. But they are also in the remain mob and the EU is full of them. And some wonder why I don't trust any of them.

I have said all along that we could well have a few years that are counterproductive. But with us having our own currency we have our destiny in our own hands. Short term could be dodgy. Long term stronger. The world is a big place. Our trade outside the EU is much more than inside the EU. And we are restricted because of EU rules.

what is your definition of short and long term?
I don't think a decade plus is short term, (though in the grand scheme of things it probably is). You may think it will turn around before that, if so what do you base that on?

Astute · Nov 24, 2017

skybluetony176 said:
Our goods were I work have always said made in the UK. That isn’t the problem. The problem is that made in the U.K. will no longer mean made in the EU. and at times that’s going to deny UK companies access to market.

This depends on the trade deal with the EU. But UK quality is seen as better than EU. They know where it is coming from.

I also work in manufacturing for a worldwide company. Our profits in the UK are massively better than in the rest of the EU. The problem that the UK has is we will need to bring manufacturing back into the UK.

Sick Boy · Nov 24, 2017

Astute said:
Soon our goods will have 'Made in the UK' instead of 'Made in the EU'

I have goods from various EU countries that are labelled as being made in their country of origin. I also have products that are labelled made in England.

The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (18 Viewers)

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