The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (14 Viewers)

Astute · Nov 3, 2017

martcov said:
Got out of that by denying knowledge. Yes quite an adapt dodger.

Who from the EU said he had committed fraud?

What happened to the petition?

He just denied everything and said no, I won’t resign?

He knows he is quite safe. There is nobody above him. But everyone now knows what has happened. Maybe that is why he has gone from a few months ago where he said he would stand again to now saying that he won't. Barnier is after his job. Juncker gave Barnier the job of negotiations. It will bring his profile up. Once Juncker leaves, the investigation can look more into the part he played in it all. He wasn't just PM of Luxembourg. He was also the finance minister. Yet he wants us to believe that he didn't have a clue about the finances of Luxembourg whilst he was in charge.

I have a feeling that Juncker has struck a deal with Barnier to not look into the dealings of Luxembourg whilst he was in charge.

clint van damme · Nov 3, 2017

Kingokings204 said:
We triggered article 50 too early? We triggered far too late in my opinion. 1 or maybe 2 months but 9 was taking the Mickey a bit in my view. We had the vote, leave won what was their to think about? My point being we voted to get out of this cesspit of a unelected gravy train (my view) one of the greatest things about voting to leave was to get on with free trade across the world and take away lots of burdens being it silly taxes or endless legislations. The more we are in the EU like we currently are we can't sign anything or do anything. That's why I'm so opposed to transitional deals. No one voted for a transitional deal. It never came up once from either side. If we have this transitional deal of "around" 2 years it's could be longer of course and all the while we still can't do any of the above whilst still paying in billions and billions and adhering to all their rules without any votes. It's lunacy of the highest order and thats the really big shame to it for me. Massive shame in fact.

can't agree, to me we quite clearly aren't prepared.
No matter what anyone thinks of the EU, when you've been involved with such an organisation for 40 years it's bound to be a complicated process to leave and we should take that into account.
Can you give me any evidence that we will be going round the world signing free trade deals in March 19?

Astute · Nov 3, 2017

clint van damme said:
can't agree, to me we quite clearly aren't prepared.
No matter what anyone thinks of the EU, when you've been involved with such an organisation for 40 years it's bound to be a complicated process to leave and we should take that into account.
Can you give me any evidence that we will be going round the world signing free trade deals in March 19?

The difference is that we are not allowed to make any trade deals whilst in the EU. Most of the trade we do is outside the EU. So we are not starting again.

Only a fool would say it will be easy. But in a few years it will look totally different.

Or you can keep to the EU version. For them to do trade deals all countries have to agree. But whichever country they want to do a deal with there will always be losers.in the EU. They are the countries where their main exports are the main exports of the country that they want to do a deal with. So they veto the deal. The EU wants to make it a majority vote. But to get a majority vote they have to get the unanimous vote on the subject.

Or you have the UK. If it suits us we sign. We don't need permission from anyone else. In the long run it will be a lot easier.

mrtrench · Nov 3, 2017

martcov said:
I just hope that Brexit makes the EU reform.

Completely agree.

clint van damme · Nov 3, 2017

I agree with your last line:

"In the long run it will be a lot easier."

No matter how bad it gets, it will improve at some point, my worry is what constitutes the long run, 2 years, 10 years? And if it does go on that long will it have all been worth it?

Sick Boy · Nov 3, 2017

Astute said:
It won't take decades. That is worse than the scare tactics by the remain side.

We are one of the richest countries in the world. We won't suddenly become poor just because we leave something we didn't agree to join.

We agreed to join the Common Market. Look what it has become but worse of all what it could become. We signed up to make buying and selling easier with a few countries.

The scare stories have always been about. The last big one was we would be left behind if we didn't join the Euro. But not joining the Euro was the best thing we ever did in the EU.

We sell lots more outside the EU than in it. Being in the EU stops us from making trade deals outside the EU.

The EU countries still want and need to trade with us. We buy a lot more than we sell in the EU. This will still happen if tariffs start. If our economy sufferers the pound will drop. This would more than make up for the tariffs that we are charged. But it would make the stuff that we buy even more expensive on top of the tariffs from the EU. So they would suffer even more. So we would buy more from elsewhere. Who would be the loser there?

As I have been saying to you the UK has put together a deal on the right to reside for those who have already emigrated. It is being held up bu the EU. They have called it 'small technicalities'. The problem is that they have said we must come to an agreement on money owed, residential rights and what will happen with the Irish border before they will talk about trade deals. This is well said to be a wrong order and a big mistake. How can they decide on the Irish border without knowing what sort of trade deal there will be? Full WTO tariffs would be much more difficult to agree on the border than if tariff free trading is agreed on. But to the EU it is all about the money they can get out of us.

It is much better news for you. It will give the right to be able to bring to the UK family that would otherwise have no rights to be here. So your partner from Italy could live here even if you didn't meet until after Brexit is signed. And those not born in the UK but have residency would have the same rights.

I would be happy just to follow CCFC for 9 months of the year home and away and go away for closed season :smuggrin: Strangely enough the wife wants Europe more. But we will be frequently back leaving motorhome wherever we have got to and getting flights. The wife won't want to miss out on kids, grand kids and so on. And I won't want to miss out on the football.

Remind me which side said they were using ciuzens are bargaining chips? Claiming it will take decades to undo is not scare tactics, it's simply reality, IMO. It's been irresponsible to claim leaving is going to be easy, which has already Ben demonstrated.

Hahaha I am can't imagine what reaction I would get for suggesting following CCFC for 9 months.

clint van damme · Nov 3, 2017

mrtrench said:
Completely agree.

Actually so do I. It's a pity we couldn't have stayed in and helped them. I think I my be right in saying Cameron tried but they weren't very receptive.

Sick Boy · Nov 3, 2017

Astute said:
Or you have the UK. If it suits us we sign. We don't need permission from anyone else. In the long run it will be a lot easier.

Can't agree with that at all. We are going to be in a position of known weakness and will have little to no bargaining power with world superpowers.

mrtrench · Nov 3, 2017

clint van damme said:
Actually so do I. It's a pity we couldn't have stayed in and helped them. I think I my be right in saying Cameron tried but they weren't very receptive.

Had they been receptive, I'd have rather stayed too. Leaving is a last resort due to their intransigence.

Sick Boy · Nov 3, 2017

clint van damme said:
Actually so do I. It's a pity we couldn't have stayed in and helped them. I think I my be right in saying Cameron tried but they weren't very receptive.

Not sure how he tried? The EU is relatively young, and as I've said before it will reform and improve over time. I still think that one day we will be rejoin but not for 20 odd years.

Sick Boy · Nov 3, 2017

mrtrench said:
Had they been receptive, I'd have rather stayed too. Leaving is a last resort due to their intransigence.

It wasn't done with both sides in mind though and was quickly done from a UK perspective.

Astute · Nov 3, 2017

clint van damme said:
I agree with your last line:

"In the long run it will be a lot easier."

No matter how bad it gets, it will improve at some point, my worry is what constitutes the long run, 2 years, 10 years? And if it does go on that long will it have all been worth it?

Can't see it being anywhere near as long as 10 years. We have our own currency. We won't be starting at a low base.

Astute · Nov 3, 2017

clint van damme said:
Actually so do I. It's a pity we couldn't have stayed in and helped them. I think I my be right in saying Cameron tried but they weren't very receptive.

That should tell us that they wouldn't listen to us. Cameron needed an agreement to help with the remain vote. Even that didn't swing Juncker into wanting talks with the way the EU is going.

Us leaving could be good for the EU in this way. They will have to change. They won't have our money going into the pot each year. They will have to stop fraud. They will have to stop wasting money.

Astute · Nov 3, 2017

Sick Boy said:
Remind me which side said they were using ciuzens are bargaining chips? Claiming it will take decades to undo is not scare tactics, it's simply reality, IMO. It's been irresponsible to claim leaving is going to be easy, which has already Ben demonstrated.

Hahaha I am can't imagine what reaction I would get for suggesting following CCFC for 9 months.

So point out where I have said it will be easy. I have constantly said that it won't be easy. But it also won't be as hard as many lile to make out.

Yes the EU have over the years intertwined our rules/regulations and much more. But why will it take decades?

Astute · Nov 3, 2017

Sick Boy said:
Not sure how he tried? The EU is relatively young, and as I've said before it will reform and improve over time. I still think that one day we will be rejoin but not for 20 odd years.

Have you forgotten what happened a few days before the vote?

Captain Dart · Nov 3, 2017

mrtrench said:
Completely agree.

So do I but I doubt it will it is a corrupt monolith, heavens the UK is bad enough but the EU is on another scale entirely.

martcov · Nov 3, 2017

Captain Dart said:
So do I but I doubt it will it is a corrupt monolith, heavens the UK is bad enough but the EU is on another scale entirely.

Being corrupt or people abusing power is not an EU invention. Look at Trump restocking the swamp, or Putin and his cleptocrats. Doesn’t mean it’s right, but leaving doesn’t necessarily do away with people in power over us abusing it.

Astute · Nov 3, 2017

martcov said:
Being corrupt or people abusing power is not an EU invention. Look at Trump restocking the swamp, or Putin and his cleptocrats. Doesn’t mean it’s right, but leaving doesn’t necessarily do away with people in power over us abusing it.

I hope that there will be a massive spotlight on fraud throughout the EU and UK after this has settled down at the latest. And the massive gravy train needs to be reined in. The pensions that they get for working in the EU for a few years is more than most can hope for after a lifetime of work. And they are like MP's in the UK. They act like idiots when they are supposed to be debating. And that is when they can be bothered to turn up.

There are 751 MEP's. It costs about 1.75 billion a year to run the European parliament. That is about 2.3 million per MEP :shifty:

Grendel · Nov 3, 2017

clint van damme said:
can't agree, to me we quite clearly aren't prepared.
No matter what anyone thinks of the EU, when you've been involved with such an organisation for 40 years it's bound to be a complicated process to leave and we should take that into account.
Can you give me any evidence that we will be going round the world signing free trade deals in March 19?

Corbyn and McDonnell wanted it triggered the day after the referendum!

Kingokings204 · Nov 3, 2017

Grendel said:
Corbyn and McDonnell wanted it triggered the day after the referendum!

Yes they said we've had the vote we have to implement the decision. He then went on to criticize may and tories for taking 9 months to trigger it. Which one is it?

Kingokings204 · Nov 3, 2017

clint van damme said:
can't agree, to me we quite clearly aren't prepared.
No matter what anyone thinks of the EU, when you've been involved with such an organisation for 40 years it's bound to be a complicated process to leave and we should take that into account.
Can you give me any evidence that we will be going round the world signing free trade deals in March 19?

We can't that's the whole point I was making.

clint van damme · Nov 3, 2017

Grendel said:
Corbyn and McDonnell wanted it triggered the day after the referendum!

which would have been madness.

Kingokings204 · Nov 3, 2017

clint van damme said:
which would have been madness.

So why did corbyn state that as his position as Labour Party leader?

clint van damme · Nov 3, 2017

Kingokings204 said:
So why did corbyn state that as his position as Labour Party leader?

Maybe he believed it to be right, I don't agree with him.
It may have been OK if we were being taken out by a government who knew what they were doing, they clearly don't.

Astute · Nov 3, 2017

clint van damme said:
Maybe he believed it to be right, I don't agree with him.
It may have been OK if we were being taken out by a government who knew what they were doing, they clearly don't.

It is OK to say things against Labour and still be a Labour voter you know.

Corbyn wants out of the EU a lot more than I do. But you defend him all the time whilst attacking anyone else with his views. You even have a go at those who see good and bad with the EU.

clint van damme · Nov 3, 2017

Astute said:
It is OK to say things against Labour and still be a Labour voter you know.

Corbyn wants out of the EU a lot more than I do. But you defend him all the time whilst attacking anyone else with his views. You even have a go at those who see good and bad with the EU.

so you're saying I defend Corbyn and quote a post where I disagree with him. You're just arguing for the sake of it now.

Astute · Nov 3, 2017

clint van damme said:
so you're saying I defend Corbyn and quote a post where I disagree with him. You're just arguing for the sake of it now.

'Maybe he believed it to be right' isn't having a go. What would you say if it was a Tory?

clint van damme · Nov 3, 2017

Astute said:
'Maybe he believed it to be right' isn't having a go. What would you say if it was a Tory?

no, I was asked why did Corbyn say it. I said I thought it was madness.

Astute · Nov 3, 2017

clint van damme said:
Maybe he believed it to be right, I don't agree with him.
It may have been OK if we were being taken out by a government who knew what they were doing, they clearly don't.

Madness?

Kingokings204 · Nov 3, 2017

clint van damme said:
Maybe he believed it to be right, I don't agree with him.
It may have been OK if we were being taken out by a government who knew what they were doing, they clearly don't.

Well that may be right but I think they are more just split than not a clue. They are trying to please everyone and life tells you that's impossible.

I agreed with corbyn and I'm no fan of his. As he said we had the vote and we got a result.

clint van damme · Nov 3, 2017

Astute said:
Madness?

I would argue we should have delayed triggering it longer as i don't think we're ready now.
I have agreed with Mays attempts to move away from the rigid leave date of March 19. I think to have triggered Article 50 the next day would have been madness and I stand by that, I don't agree with Corbyn saying we should of.

clint van damme · Nov 3, 2017

Kingokings204 said:
Well that may be right but I think they are more just split than not a clue. They are trying to please everyone and life tells you that's impossible.

I agreed with corbyn and I'm no fan of his. As he said we had the vote and we got a result.

i disagree, I don't think they've got a clue. I've linked a blog earlier in this thread where someone who was involved with the Brexit team said that every day they would come up against a problem that hey hadn't anticipated.
It's only one mans observations but it resonates with everything else I'm seeing.

Kingokings204 · Nov 3, 2017

clint van damme said:
i disagree, I don't think they've got a clue. I've linked a blog earlier in this thread where someone who was involved with the Brexit team said that every day they would come up against a problem that hey hadn't anticipated.
It's only one mans observations but it resonates with everything else I'm seeing.

I don't disagree as such. No body especially westminster thought brexit would happen and never planned for it. I always and genuinely believed brexit would happen last year but I was worried by the lack of procedures in place should it happen and then it did.

skybluetony176 · Nov 9, 2017

We want our Brexit cash boost - NHS boss

What’s the chances of this happening?

Sick Boy · Nov 9, 2017

skybluetony176 said:
We want our Brexit cash boost - NHS boss

What’s the chances of this happening?

Stop being a limp wristed remainiac. As the great Nigel Farage said, Brexit is a victory for ordinary and decent people. Those fine and upstanding British men and women will of course honour their promises. There will also be more money for all of our after we have left the EU as well, don't forget!

The US claims this week that we will have to lower our standards the have any chance of a trade deal were simply posturing. Once they see how strong our hand is they'll be bowing down like all of the other Johnny foreigners.

The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (14 Viewers)

As of right now, how are thinking of voting? In or out

Remain

Leave

Undecided

Not registered or not intention to vote

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Super Moderator

Well-Known Member

Super Moderator

Well-Known Member

Super Moderator

Super Moderator

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Super Moderator

Users who are viewing this thread

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency