The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (9 Viewers)

Houdi · Oct 19, 2017

Sick Boy said:
Ahhhh yea just like all of those other countries who were supposed to follow Britian's lead out of the EU following on from the vote.

Clearly you are one of those people who have had enough of experts though. What's all this bollocks about the liberal global elite? Perhaps Britian should isolate itself off from the world rather than seeking trade deals?

What the hell are you on about. The EU doesn't allow us to do free trade with other countries as we are currently not a sovereign country. All out trade deals are currently controlled by Brussels.By leaving the EU we are rejoining the rest of the world, you know the near 200 countries which are not in the EU.You do know the EU have long term ambitions to expand beyond Europe, the EU President a couple of weeks ago, made it crystal clear he wants more and more integration. EU defence force, an single EU finance Minister,fiscal union to join monetary union. A drive to force all EU countries to join the Euro, common EU taxes,basically the death of nation states. What was it Juncker once said,' when things get serious you have to lie.' Well nowadays they are so arrogant they don't even bother to disguise their intentions.

Sick Boy · Oct 19, 2017

Houdi said:
What the hell are you on about. The EU doesn't allow us to do free trade with other countries as we are currently not a sovereign country. All out trade deals are currently controlled by Brussels.By leaving the EU we are rejoining the rest of the world, you know the near 200 countries which are not in the EU.You do know the EU have long term ambitions to expand beyond Europe, the EU President a couple of weeks ago, made it crystal clear he wants more and more integration. EU defence force, an single EU finance Minister,fiscal union to join monetary union. A drive to force all EU countries to join the Euro, common EU taxes,basically the death of nation states. What was it Juncker once said,' when things get serious you have to lie.' Well nowadays they are so arrogant they don't even bother to disguise their intentions.

You were critical of the "liberal global elite". What is this? Who are these people?

EU countries are their parliaments despite what you claim. Britain would also not have been compelled to join the euro either, btw and wouldn't have been forced to pay future bailouts.

Houdi · Oct 19, 2017

martcov said:
We’ve done well economically during our time in the EU. Ask the leavers how big our economy is.

Germany reckons on paying up to 3bn a year extra as a result of the UK not paying in. Probably less because the EU will reduce the budget. Not much in the real world.

The refugee crisis was not caused by the EU and refugee status is governed by international law not by the EU. Sweden always had a liberal refugee policy- long before the EU.

We have commitments and they have to be paid. Up until now we haven’t offered more than our subs until leaving day. We need to make a list of what we consider our liabilities and then see what else the EU wants. Somewhere between the two is the answer. The sooner this happens the better.

Our net contributions are well over 3 billion and were only going to get bigger. The idea that the EU will cut back its budgets is for the birds. Most EU countries don't pay anything into the budget. Germany is already the biggest net contributor but of course it benefits hugely from an under valued (for its economy) currency, plus of course Germany has never paid a fair share for its defence. How many NATO/EU countries don't even pay the agreed 2% of GDP spending they all signed upto.
No the EU wasn't to blame for the migrant crisis, but the deranged lunatic Merkel certainly was. Most of those coming weren't refugees they were economic migrants. Indeed in Switzerland they are now deporting many of these so called migrants who have returned 'home' for holidays,before going back to Switzerland. There are still thousands coming from Africa on a daily basis,with the EU providing a virtual taxi service in the Med.
Funny in a divorce we talk of assets and liabilities, what about all the EU assets the British taxpayer has funded over decades,yet you only wish to talk about our so called liabilities. A House of Lords committee which is massively for Remain, has stated that legally we owe nothing when we leave.
It is bizarre in this country how so many seem to hate the UK and always seek to side with the EU. The people of this country made a democratic decision to leave, we haven't committed a crime you know,-respect the vote.

skybluetony176 · Oct 19, 2017

Astute said:
The trade deal is a small part of the negotiations. You don't seem to understand that.

Small? Hardly. It’s one component of many, I’ll give you that but it and security are probably the two biggest single components and the ones that are going to take the biggest difference to the man in the street. Trade is going to effect everything from high street prices to inflation to the growth of the country. Basically anything remotely connected to the economy.

SkyblueBazza · Oct 19, 2017

Sick Boy said:
Let's see if the UK actually leaves

Yeah...like let's have a vote on it!!!

Oh, sorry - we did that already.

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

SkyblueBazza · Oct 19, 2017

skybluetony176 said:
Small? Hardly. It’s one component of many, I’ll give you that but it and security are probably the two biggest single components and the ones that are going to take the biggest difference to the man in the street. Trade is going to effect everything from high street prices to inflation to the growth of the country. Basically anything remotely connected to the economy.

Everything (even Junker farting) means higher prices to the man in the street somewhere. Being in the EU never stopped price rises...in fact I believe they did go up through us joining in the first place!

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

Houdi · Oct 19, 2017

Sick Boy said:
You were critical of the "liberal global elite". What is this? Who are these people?

EU countries are their parliaments despite what you claim. Britain would also not have been compelled to join the euro either, btw and wouldn't have been forced to pay future bailouts.

The liberal global elite, try Branson the tax avoiding creep lecturing us on brexit from his island paradise. Christine Legarde head of the IMF warning us on brexit, you know the same woman found guilty in Paris court for fraud. Global Hedge funds like Morgan Stanley, the OECD the receipient of £80million from the EU to produce 'impartial reports'.Look how many public bodies receives EU funds paid for by the British taxpayer to spread EU propaganda. Obama 'back of the queue', the Clintons et al.
So when France and Netherlands electorate voted down the 'Constitutional Treaty' what did the EU do.? Renamed it the Lisbon Treaty, and passed it anyway without any referendums. Every EU country that has ever voted down has had to vote again until they vote the 'right' way.
Funny I remember Cameron and Osbourne saying we wouldn't pay for the last bailout, but guess what in the end we did. The EU doesn't do negotiations,and their reaction to every crisis, is for more Europe.

Sick Boy · Oct 19, 2017

Houdi said:
The liberal global elite, try Branson the tax avoiding creep lecturing us on brexit from his island paradise. Christine Legarde head of the IMF warning us on brexit, you know the same woman found guilty in Paris court for fraud. Global Hedge funds like Morgan Stanley, the OECD the receipient of £80million from the EU to produce 'impartial reports'.Look how many public bodies receives EU funds paid for by the British taxpayer to spread EU propaganda. Obama 'back of the queue', the Clintons et al.
So when France and Netherlands electorate voted down the 'Constitutional Treaty' what did the EU do.? Renamed it the Lisbon Treaty, and passed it anyway without any referendums. Every EU country that has ever voted down has had to vote again until they vote the 'right' way.
Funny I remember Cameron and Osbourne saying we wouldn't pay for the last bailout, but guess what in the end we did. The EU doesn't do negotiations,and their reaction to every crisis, is for more Europe.

I presume that you mean anyone who is not supportive of the likes of Farage and Trump.

clint van damme · Oct 19, 2017

Sick Boy said:
I presume that you mean anyone who is not supportive of the likes of Farage and Trump.

the millionaire banker and the billionaire property developer - men of the people!! (One who has taken hundreds of thousands from the EU!)

Houdi · Oct 19, 2017

Sick Boy said:
I presume that you mean anyone who is not supportive of the likes of Farage and Trump.

No I mean the 17.4 million of ordinary people who voted to leave. The biggest vote for anything in this country's history.
Interesting you mentioned Trump as he won an election over in the USA. News coming out of the USA overnight seems to suggest of a link between the Sainted Obama and Clinton's with a dodgy deal with you guessed it the Russians over Uraniums sales, with money being 'donated 'to the Clinton foundation as a kickback. I wonder if CNN and the BBC will mention this,somehow I doubt it.

Sick Boy · Oct 19, 2017

Houdi said:
No I mean the 17.4 million of ordinary people who voted to leave. The biggest vote for anything in this country's history.
Interesting you mentioned Trump as he won an election over in the USA. News coming out of the USA overnight seems to suggest of a link between the Sainted Obama and Clinton's with a dodgy deal with you guessed it the Russians over Uraniums sales, with money being 'donated 'to the Clinton foundation as a kickback. I wonder if CNN and the BBC will mention this,somehow I doubt it.

The 17.4m leave voters are the "liberal global elite"?

Houdi · Oct 19, 2017

Sick Boy said:
The 17.4m leave voters are the "liberal global elite"?

What are you on about,you are making no actual sense. Perhaps you can tell me when your beloved EU is going to close the EU Parliament in Strasbourg as it already has a perfectly good one in Brussels,but hey lets all pay for the whole EU circus to travel down to Strasbourg every 4 weeks at a cost of hundreds of millions of taxpayers money just to appease the French.

skybluetony176 · Oct 19, 2017

SkyblueBazza said:
Everything (even Junker farting) means higher prices to the man in the street somewhere. Being in the EU never stopped price rises...in fact I believe they did go up through us joining in the first place!

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

Can’t say I’m aware of Junkers bowel movements so I’ll take your word for it.

Sick Boy · Oct 19, 2017

Houdi said:
What are you on about,you are making no actual sense. Perhaps you can tell me when your beloved EU is going to close the EU Parliament in Strasbourg as it already has a perfectly good one in Brussels,but hey lets all pay for the whole EU circus to travel down to Strasbourg every 4 weeks at a cost of hundreds of millions of taxpayers money just to appease the French.

I asked you more about the "liberal global elite" and you went on about leave voters.

The Tory party is full of liberals who believe in global free trade. Presumably you are against striking global free trade deals then?

Grendel · Oct 19, 2017

Sick Boy said:
I asked you more about the "liberal global elite" and you went on about leave voters.

The Tory party is full of liberals who believe in global free trade. Presumably you are against striking global free trade deals then?

Why don't you actually answer his questions? Perhaps you have no answers?

Astute · Oct 19, 2017

skybluetony176 said:
Small? Hardly. It’s one component of many, I’ll give you that but it and security are probably the two biggest single components and the ones that are going to take the biggest difference to the man in the street. Trade is going to effect everything from high street prices to inflation to the growth of the country. Basically anything remotely connected to the economy.

And as usual you only mention one side of the story.

Because of the EU we have to pay tax on the power we use. We have to pay tax on hot food. They set the minimum tax we pay on other items. But countries can decide a few items for lower tax.

But just before we voted to leave the EU were going on about making us pay more tax. They were on about stopping tax free on children's clothes, food and medicine IIRC.

If there is no trade deal then yes we will pay more tax. But only what we bring in from the EU. And components brought in from the EU only attracts a 2% levy. Things made in this country will have a tax advantage for us.

Astute · Oct 19, 2017

skybluetony176 said:
Can’t say I’m aware of Junkers bowel movements so I’ll take your word for it.

And how about the rest of the post?

martcov · Oct 19, 2017

Houdi said:
Our net contributions are well over 3 billion and were only going to get bigger. The idea that the EU will cut back its budgets is for the birds. Most EU countries don't pay anything into the budget. Germany is already the biggest net contributor but of course it benefits hugely from an under valued (for its economy) currency, plus of course Germany has never paid a fair share for its defence. How many NATO/EU countries don't even pay the agreed 2% of GDP spending they all signed upto.
No the EU wasn't to blame for the migrant crisis, but the deranged lunatic Merkel certainly was. Most of those coming weren't refugees they were economic migrants. Indeed in Switzerland they are now deporting many of these so called migrants who have returned 'home' for holidays,before going back to Switzerland. There are still thousands coming from Africa on a daily basis,with the EU providing a virtual taxi service in the Med.
Funny in a divorce we talk of assets and liabilities, what about all the EU assets the British taxpayer has funded over decades,yet you only wish to talk about our so called liabilities. A House of Lords committee which is massively for Remain, has stated that legally we owe nothing when we leave.
It is bizarre in this country how so many seem to hate the UK and always seek to side with the EU. The people of this country made a democratic decision to leave, we haven't committed a crime you know,-respect the vote.

Germany pays 3 bn of the shortfall caused by Brexit. The total is supposedly 10 bn. The EU budgets will’s be cut. Less people paying in will force cuts.

The NATO countries have agreed to commit 2% of their budgets to military spending. Which they will do. The agreement is for a future date.

Merkel is not a deranged lunatic and acted in accordance with international law.

Most of those coming were refugees from war torn Syria.

The EU is not providing a virtual Taxi service. Libya was bombed to pieces by individual countries and not the EU. The increase in immigration is because of the collapse of Libya, not the EU and not Merkel.

There are U.K. assets and U.K. liabilities. What we have to pay is the difference between the two. We don’t know what that is at the moment because we have no agreement.

The House of Lords doesn’t decide what we owe or don’t owe. They may have an opinion, but that’s it.

52% of voters in an advisory referendum voted to leave.

We have as much right to voice our opinion about the cock up of Brexit as you have to tell us how good it is.

Sick Boy · Oct 19, 2017

Grendel said:
Why don't you actually answer his questions? Perhaps you have no answers?

Trust you to do defend someone peddling the myth that the EU doesn't do negotiations when it clearly isn't the case. The "liberal global elite" seems to be a convenient label for anyone who disagrees with his view of the world.

martcov · Oct 19, 2017

Houdi said:
No I mean the 17.4 million of ordinary people who voted to leave. The biggest vote for anything in this country's history.
Interesting you mentioned Trump as he won an election over in the USA. News coming out of the USA overnight seems to suggest of a link between the Sainted Obama and Clinton's with a dodgy deal with you guessed it the Russians over Uraniums sales, with money being 'donated 'to the Clinton foundation as a kickback. I wonder if CNN and the BBC will mention this,somehow I doubt it.

This uranium thing has been brought a million times as a deflection from the actual problem of having an idiot in the White House. Worst president since ratings began.

Grendel · Oct 19, 2017

martcov said:
This uranium thing has been brought a million times as a deflection from the actual problem of having an idiot in the White House. Worst president since ratings began.

So is macron the dribbling europhile.

martcov · Oct 19, 2017

Houdi said:
The liberal global elite, try Branson the tax avoiding creep lecturing us on brexit from his island paradise. Christine Legarde head of the IMF warning us on brexit, you know the same woman found guilty in Paris court for fraud. Global Hedge funds like Morgan Stanley, the OECD the receipient of £80million from the EU to produce 'impartial reports'.Look how many public bodies receives EU funds paid for by the British taxpayer to spread EU propaganda. Obama 'back of the queue', the Clintons et al.
So when France and Netherlands electorate voted down the 'Constitutional Treaty' what did the EU do.? Renamed it the Lisbon Treaty, and passed it anyway without any referendums. Every EU country that has ever voted down has had to vote again until they vote the 'right' way.
Funny I remember Cameron and Osbourne saying we wouldn't pay for the last bailout, but guess what in the end we did. The EU doesn't do negotiations,and their reaction to every crisis, is for more Europe.

Seems like loads of people and organisations are warning against Brexit as you say. Conspiracy theory? But who thinks it’s great? Trump, Putin, because he wants the EU to be forced to drop the sanctions. Farage, Gove, Johnson, Aaron Banks, Murdoch..... all of these people are loaded and they include the most powerful people on this planet and you think it is the global elite that you have to worry about? Just look at the quality of Brexit fans.

martcov · Oct 19, 2017

Grendel said:
So is macron the dribbling europhile.

He won the popular vote. The other one didn’t even do that.

Grendel · Oct 19, 2017

martcov said:
He won the popular vote. The other one didn’t even do that.

That's not what you said. How popular is he now? Anyway the ringmaster has opened her mouth now hasn't she?

Astute · Oct 19, 2017

martcov said:
Seems like loads of people and organisations are warning against Brexit as you say. Conspiracy theory? But who thinks it’s great? Trump, Putin, because he wants the EU to be forced to drop the sanctions. Farage, Gove, Johnson, Aaron Banks, Murdoch..... all of these people are loaded and they include the most powerful people on this planet and you think it is the global elite that you have to worry about? Just look at the quality of Brexit fans.

So you have named those you like to constantly name for no reason as the only people that think Brexit could go well?

You try to make out that no deal would hardly make a difference to Germany. But we know it isn't true. People involved in industry in Germany are worried what a no deal would mean to them. Other countries have said the same.

Grendel · Oct 19, 2017

Astute said:
So you have named those you like to constantly name for no reason as the only people that think Brexit could go well?

You try to make out that no deal would hardly make a difference to Germany. But we know it isn't true. People involved in industry in Germany are worried what a no deal would mean to them. Other countries have said the same.

It would make a huge difference - he says only £3 billion but he's talking nonsense. If we went to WTO terms with the European Union we'd be better off by 7 billion - if we adopted a free trade deal with the whole planet some estimate we'd be £35 billion better off - but industries would collapse. It's an open secret in the motor industry that German motor manufacturers are demanding progress on free trade arrangements - and now it's starting to happen

Angela Merkel hails 'encouraging' signs for Brexit trade talks | The Mail

martcov · Oct 19, 2017

Astute said:
So you have named those you like to constantly name for no reason as the only people that think Brexit could go well?

You try to make out that no deal would hardly make a difference to Germany. But we know it isn't true. People involved in industry in Germany are worried what a no deal would mean to them. Other countries have said the same.

I said that the shortfall is not the problem. Which is not saying there are no problems. I also don’t think the EU wants a bad deal or no deal. They want the three most important things out of the way first. Understandably. The no deal side is the British side who are trying to dodge thinks like the border problem and who are bogged down on divorce bill. Basically the U.K. are saying let’s put these things off and talkabout the future, but there is the GFA and citizens‘s rights that mean a lot to a lot of people - like me. I agree with EU on 2 out of the three. The divorce bill is really complicated and will take years, an initial payment should be agreed - on what we definitely know has been committed to - and then some sort of joint commission should be set up to go through all the points one by one. That will take years.

Grendel · Oct 19, 2017

martcov said:
I said that the shortfall is not the problem. Which is not saying there are no problems. I also don’t think the EU wants a bad deal or no deal. They want the three most important things out of the way first. Understandably. The no deal side is the British side who are trying to dodge thinks like the border problem and who are bogged down on divorce bill. Basically the U.K. are saying let’s put these things off and talkabout the future, but there is the GFA and citizens‘s rights that mean a lot to a lot of people - like me. I agree with EU on 2 out of the three. The divorce bill is really complicated and will take years, an initial payment should be agreed - on what we definitely know has been committed to - and then some sort of joint commission should be set up to go through all the points one by one. That will take years.

If there's no formula there's no divorce bill is there. There has to be a calculated formula - if there isn't there is no legal obligation to pay anything. On to stage two in December anyway.

martcov · Oct 19, 2017

Grendel said:
It would make a huge difference - he says only £3 billion but he's talking nonsense. If we went to WTO terms with the European Union we'd be better off by 7 billion - if we adopted a free trade deal with the whole planet some estimate we'd be £35 billion better off - but industries would collapse. It's an open secret in the motor industry that German motor manufacturers are demanding progress on free trade arrangements - and now it's starting to happen

Angela Merkel hails 'encouraging' signs for Brexit trade talks | The Mail

3 bn is the German share of the membership shortfall caused by the U.K. leaving. That is not the major problem. The EU has not said that it wants to give the U.K. a bad deal. It has said that they should not be better off than before. Brexit was a conscious vote to obtain a worse deal with EU than before. It doesn’t have to end up with a bad deal though.

Grendel · Oct 19, 2017

martcov said:
3 bn is the German share of the membership shortfall caused by the U.K. leaving. That is not the major problem. The EU has not said that it wants to give the U.K. a bad deal. It has said that they should not be better off than before. Brexit was a conscious vote to obtain a worse deal with EU than before. It doesn’t have to end up with a bad deal though.

It's going to end up with a free trade deal with no strings. Brilliant for both parties wouldn't you say?

Oh and if the shortfall pay is £3 billion so is the duty payments if we went to WTO terms so that's £6 billion and the German motor industry profit is £1.9 billion less the day it happens.

Astute · Oct 19, 2017

martcov said:
I said that the shortfall is not the problem. Which is not saying there are no problems. I also don’t think the EU wants a bad deal or no deal. They want the three most important things out of the way first. Understandably. The no deal side is the British side who are trying to dodge thinks like the border problem and who are bogged down on divorce bill. Basically the U.K. are saying let’s put these things off and talkabout the future, but there is the GFA and citizens‘s rights that mean a lot to a lot of people - like me. I agree with EU on 2 out of the three. The divorce bill is really complicated and will take years, an initial payment should be agreed - on what we definitely know has been committed to - and then some sort of joint commission should be set up to go through all the points one by one. That will take years.

You sound like you don't have a clue.

The EU are not after an amount they want from us. They are after a list of things they want us to pay for but not how much. The total that they are after is paying a percentage of about 950 billion. About 7% of this is for future pension payments. What a joke.

Grendel · Oct 19, 2017

Astute said:
You sound like you don't have a clue.

The EU are not after an amount they want from us. They are after a list of things they want us to pay for but not how much. The total that they are after is paying a percentage of about 950 billion. About 7% of this is for future pension payments. What a joke.

No he's fucking clueless. If there is no legislation written down for exit we actually owe nothing and I can't see anything in the Euro constitution that says there is. If we stay firm, eskeby now that Merkel is throwing her weight into the discussions, this will be a win win for the UK

I've been with some German motor company guys this week and they are basically saying that free trade has to happen and if the EU has to suck it up so be it.

martcov · Oct 19, 2017

Grendel said:
That's not what you said. How popular is he now? Anyway the ringmaster has opened her mouth now hasn't she?

I was talking about US presidents, you brought up Macron. Macron is not doing well in popularity now, although he is doing what he said he would ( as is Trump - unfortunately ). Macron is not insulting people and using race to divide people or taking rights off gays, so I would say that he has a better chance to turn things around. But, no one said reforming France would be easy. As to popularity, his predecessor also was extremely unpopular.

My closest meeting with a French President was when I ate Chirac‘s bread with sausage and drunk his glass of wine on an event. I wondered what the commotion was and turned round... there was Chirac and police, military, photographers.. the lot... I nipped off smartish whilst someone poured him fresh a glass of wine....

martcov · Oct 19, 2017

Astute said:
You sound like you don't have a clue.

The EU are not after an amount they want from us. They are after a list of things they want us to pay for but not how much. The total that they are after is paying a percentage of about 950 billion. About 7% of this is for future pension payments. What a joke.

They are after us committing to potential liabilities amongst other things. In cash they definitively want the membership up until leaving, but there are loads of other potential liabilities and assets. I doubt whether you know everything on the subject, but I suggested paying the cash liabilities that we agree on, and taking the rest to some form of commission to sort out because it will take a long time to see what we really have to pay. Otherwise we cannot move forwards.

martcov · Oct 19, 2017

Grendel said:
No he's fucking clueless. If there is no legislation written down for exit we actually owe nothing and I can't see anything in the Euro constitution that says there is. If we stay firm, eskeby now that Merkel is throwing her weight into the discussions, this will be a win win for the UK

I've been with some German motor company guys this week and they are basically saying that free trade has to happen and if the EU has to suck it up so be it.

We owe the subs up until we leave. The rest includes liabilities on loans that were made whilst we were in amongst other things. If you read what I said, I said we should agree on what is on paper and push the rest on to a commission to sort out. More pressing is the Irish border and citizens rights. No one has said that the EU wants to have a bad deal - except leavers. The only condition is that it should not be as good as if the U.K. were still in the EU. Doesn’t mean it is bad, but Brexit was a vote which accepted that we were not likely to get the same deal as being in the EU.

The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (9 Viewers)

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