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The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (20 Viewers)

  • Thread starter jimmyhillsfanclub
  • Start date Jun 8, 2016
Forums New posts

As of right now, how are thinking of voting? In or out

  • Remain

    Votes: 23 37.1%
  • Leave

    Votes: 35 56.5%
  • Undecided

    Votes: 3 4.8%
  • Not registered or not intention to vote

    Votes: 1 1.6%

  • Total voters
    62
  • Poll closed Jun 15, 2016.
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Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 14, 2017
  • #7,456
Sick Boy said:
Oh come on, it's all JUNKers fault.
Click to expand...
We all know that you think he is totally innocent. Even innocent of the tax dodge between Luxembourg and the companies that pay minimum tax to them instead of where they make their money.
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Oct 14, 2017
  • #7,457
Grendel said:
Hold on - do you even disagree with the ROI government who said this arrangement should be special case?

You and your mate really are beneath contempt aren't you?
Click to expand...

The Irish government has always been massively opposed to Brexit and the damage it'll cause. You are unable to accept responsibility and expect others to bend over an fix the situation without compromising.

I'm sure the Irish government love the idea of cheap hormone injected beef and other inferior goods crossing the border without checks.
 
Reactions: martcov

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Oct 14, 2017
  • #7,458
Astute said:
We all know that you think he is totally innocent. Even innocent of the tax dodge between Luxembourg and the companies that pay minimum tax to them instead of where they make their money.
Click to expand...

I've already said that it should be looked in to.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 14, 2017
  • #7,459
Sick Boy said:
Hahahaha!! If you went round the EU with that I think it would seal the fate of no deal.
Click to expand...
The greatest threat to the EU lies in Italy, a country on the edge

Back in January, Italy’s deputy foreign minister Mario Giro warned that the UK was entering into an economic ‘cold war’ with the European Union. More recently, Italy’s deputy finance minister Enrico Morando played down fears that Brexit would have disastrous consequences. The problem is, Brexit and any stumble in the UK’s economic fortunes will put pressure on the Italian economy.

When the UK leaves the EU, Italy faces the prospect not just of increased contributions to the EU budget, but potential barriers to the UK market, upon which it is reliant for exports. Already the UK is experiencing sluggish wage growth and increased costs of living. Along with the weakness of the pound, Brexit-shaped pressures will impact upon Italian businesses.

If anything, Italy’s precarious position provides good reasons to hope that the EU will push for a sensible Brexit deal that preserves the frictionless trading between the UK and countries like Italy. Brexit may not be the EU’s greatest problem, but indirectly Britain’s desire to leave the EU puts pressure on the real problem facing the European project.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 14, 2017
  • #7,460
Sick Boy said:
I've already said that it should be looked in to.
Click to expand...
So why keep trying to say nothing is his fault?
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 14, 2017
  • #7,461
Grendel said:
Hold on - do you even disagree with the ROI government who said this arrangement should be special case?

You and your mate really are beneath contempt aren't you?
Click to expand...

Why don't you comment on my post explaining that you didn't get controlled because you were already in the Schengen area?

You duck anything and everything to deflect....... as for contempt, I said I would like to see the GFA continued, you ducked that as well. Why?
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Oct 14, 2017
  • #7,462
Astute said:
So why keep trying to say nothing is his fault?
Click to expand...

....
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 14, 2017
  • #7,463
Astute said:
So you was part of the we didn't know what we were voting for then?
Click to expand...

Everyone was in my opinion. As things like the Irish border have proven that to be true. What border are we having with Ireland? Are we joining EFTA to achieve it? Are we joining the EEA to achieve it? Are we doing neither and having a hard border with passport and customs checks? People can claim that they knew what they voted for as if it’s some exclusive club but do you think that they could all agree 100% unaminously on a solution for the Irish border? Grendull seems to favour EFTA membership which with bilateral agreements like Switzerland has but this would virtually mean free movement of people across a British border with the EU which many would tell you is certainly not what they voted for.

Sounds like another referendum is inevitable if only on the terms of our departure from the EU. It could be simply for EEA membership, EFTA membership or non of the above. If non of the above wins we have a hard Irish border with customs and passport checks, if either of the others win we have a soft border in some form that meets the requirements of whichever wins. No one was asked that with an in out referendum and no party campaigned on those opinions other than the Lib Dems
 
Reactions: martcov
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 14, 2017
  • #7,464
Astute said:
The greatest threat to the EU lies in Italy, a country on the edge
Click to expand...

PUBLISHED: 15:45 14 June 2017 | UPDATED: 15:45 14 June 2017

Since then the rest of Europe has seen the fiasco of Brexit and opinions have changed. Your article was pre Brexit.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 14, 2017
  • #7,465
Sick Boy said:
....
Click to expand...

exactly. well said.
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Oct 14, 2017
  • #7,466
martcov said:
PUBLISHED: 15:45 14 June 2017 | UPDATED: 15:45 14 June 2017

Since then the rest of Europe has seen the fiasco of Brexit and opinions have changed. Your article was pre Brexit.
Click to expand...

To me it feels like 5 years since the vote, not months

Sadly for Astute not everyone in EU shares his Britishcentric viewpoint.
 
A

Ashdown

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 14, 2017
  • #7,467
Sick Boy said:
To me it feels like 5 years since the vote, not months

Sadly for Astute not everyone in EU shares his Britishcentric viewpoint.
Click to expand...
You wouldn't would you, we've seen your opinions on the Brits before pal. You've got about as much to do with Brexit as Bob Geldof !!
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Oct 14, 2017
  • #7,468
Ashdown said:
You wouldn't would you, we've seen your opinions on the Brits before pal. You've got about as much to do with Brexit as Bob Geldof !!
Click to expand...

That's bizarre considering that I consider myself to be British.
 
Reactions: martcov
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 14, 2017
  • #7,469
Astute said:
The greatest threat to the EU lies in Italy, a country on the edge

Back in January, Italy’s deputy foreign minister Mario Giro warned that the UK was entering into an economic ‘cold war’ with the European Union. More recently, Italy’s deputy finance minister Enrico Morando played down fears that Brexit would have disastrous consequences. The problem is, Brexit and any stumble in the UK’s economic fortunes will put pressure on the Italian economy.

When the UK leaves the EU, Italy faces the prospect not just of increased contributions to the EU budget, but potential barriers to the UK market, upon which it is reliant for exports. Already the UK is experiencing sluggish wage growth and increased costs of living. Along with the weakness of the pound, Brexit-shaped pressures will impact upon Italian businesses.

If anything, Italy’s precarious position provides good reasons to hope that the EU will push for a sensible Brexit deal that preserves the frictionless trading between the UK and countries like Italy. Brexit may not be the EU’s greatest problem, but indirectly Britain’s desire to leave the EU puts pressure on the real problem facing the European project.
Click to expand...

Do you think Britain's disorganised and somewhat chaotic approach thus far will provide for a sensible Brexit?
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 14, 2017
  • #7,470
martcov said:
PUBLISHED: 15:45 14 June 2017 | UPDATED: 15:45 14 June 2017

Since then the rest of Europe has seen the fiasco of Brexit and opinions have changed. Your article was pre Brexit.
Click to expand...
How can you try to bullshit when the proof is right in front of us all?
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 14, 2017
  • #7,471
martcov said:
Do you think Britain's disorganised and somewhat chaotic approach thus far will provide for a sensible Brexit?
Click to expand...
So that is your view.

The EU are innocent as usual I suppose.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 14, 2017
  • #7,472
Sick Boy said:
To me it feels like 5 years since the vote, not months

Sadly for Astute not everyone in EU shares his Britishcentric viewpoint.
Click to expand...
So an unbiased view on a bad deal for us is a bad deal for others can't bring a proper response.

Just as expected.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 14, 2017
  • #7,473
Sick Boy said:
The Irish government has always been massively opposed to Brexit and the damage it'll cause. You are unable to accept responsibility and expect others to bend over an fix the situation without compromising.

I'm sure the Irish government love the idea of cheap hormone injected beef and other inferior goods crossing the border without checks.
Click to expand...

They've said they want an open border - do clearly that's not an issue to them.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 14, 2017
  • #7,474
Astute said:
How can you try to bullshit when the proof is right in front of us all?
Click to expand...

as is obvious if you look at the date above.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 14, 2017
  • #7,475
martcov said:
as is obvious if you look at the date above.
Click to expand...
And the date is?
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 14, 2017
  • #7,476
Grendel said:
They've said they want an open border - do clearly that's not an issue to them.
Click to expand...

They said the would be in favour of a sea border with the UK. So they would have customs control at their ports - also in NI ports.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 14, 2017
  • #7,477
Astute said:
And the date is?
Click to expand...

Oh yes. I'll eat my hat.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 14, 2017
  • #7,478
martcov said:
Oh yes. I'll eat my hat.
Click to expand...
As I and others have been saying a bad deal for us is a bad deal for others.

It is down to how much the EU wants everyone to suffer. Do they want to risk their project on making it difficult for us?

Wouldn't be surprised either way.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 14, 2017
  • #7,479
martcov said:
They said the would be in favour of a sea border with the UK. So they would have customs control at their ports - also in NI ports.
Click to expand...

How does it work between Sweden and Norway?
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 14, 2017
  • #7,480
Astute said:
As I and others have been saying a bad deal for us is a bad deal for others.

It is down to how much the EU wants everyone to suffer. Do they want to risk their project on making it difficult for us?

Wouldn't be surprised either way.
Click to expand...

A bad deal will be far far worse for the UK than the EU. This could smash the UK while barely scratching EU. Joe average in the EU street probably won’t even notice the difference, whereas the UK will feel it at every level of society.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 14, 2017
  • #7,481
Grendel said:
How does it work between Sweden and Norway?
Click to expand...

Norway is in the EEA you muppet they have to contribute to the EU budget but have no voting rights and accept the free movement of goods, services and people with the EU.
 
Reactions: martcov

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Oct 14, 2017
  • #7,482
Grendel said:
How does it work between Sweden and Norway?
Click to expand...

LOL
 
Reactions: skybluetony176

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Oct 14, 2017
  • #7,483
Astute said:
As I and others have been saying a bad deal for us is a bad deal for others.

It is down to how much the EU wants everyone to suffer. Do they want to risk their project on making it difficult for us?

Wouldn't be surprised either way.
Click to expand...

..and nothing to do with the UK, of course. It's all down to the EU.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 14, 2017
  • #7,484
Grendel said:
How does it work between Sweden and Norway?
Click to expand...

Again
TripAdvisor:
Switzerland is a member of the Schengen Area (an area consisting of most countries on the European continent, Norway, Sweden, Finland and Iceland. It does not include the UK or Ireland) and no passport checks are done on people crossing borders within the Schengen area.
 

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 14, 2017
  • #7,485
started reading some stuff by this fella including his blog and there's some truly worrying stuff and it backs up my theory that we are more entwined in the mechanisms of the EU than most people realised, certainly more than I realised, (I'm sure the usual suspects will dismiss what he's written):

As a British EU negotiator, I can tell you that Brexit is going to be far worse than anyone could have guessed

Convinces me that the rush to leave by the March 19 deadline is suicidal and we should take as long as needed to make sure we have solutions to some of the issues he's hi-lighted.
 
Reactions: Sick Boy and martcov

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 14, 2017
  • #7,486
martcov said:
Again
TripAdvisor:
Switzerland is a member of the Schengen Area (an area consisting of most countries on the European continent, Norway, Sweden, Finland and Iceland. It does not include the UK or Ireland) and no passport checks are done on people crossing borders within the Schengen area.
Click to expand...

So why can't the agreement be extended to uk and Ireland as part of our agreement regarding trading arrangements with the EU? Sick boy says the Irish wouldn't want some contaminated meat (unless it's eggs or horse meat from the EU) but the swedes aren't bothered are they?
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 14, 2017
  • #7,487
Sick Boy said:
LOL
Click to expand...

This is exactly the point I’ve been trying to make to astute. Someone who thinks they know everything doesn’t seem to know his EEA from his EFTA from his hard brexit. He brings Norway and Switzerland into the equation as a solution to the Irish border clearly with zero understanding of the details of the arrangements either country has with the EU. They’re both out of the EU in the same sense that Australia are out but they all have a varying different degree of commitment to the EU.

Does out mean EFTA membership?

Does out mean EEA membership?

Or non of the above?

Grendull seems confused.
 
Reactions: martcov and Sick Boy

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Oct 14, 2017
  • #7,488
Grendel said:
So why can't the agreement be extended to uk and Ireland as part of our agreement regarding trading arrangements with the EU? Sick boy says the Irish wouldn't want some contaminated meat (unless it's eggs or horse meat from the EU) but the swedes aren't bothered are they?
Click to expand...

Are you intentionally being a bit slow?
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 14, 2017
  • #7,489
clint van damme said:
started reading some stuff by this fella including his blog and there's some truly worrying stuff and it backs up my theory that we are more entwined in the mechanisms of the EU than most people realised, certainly more than I realised, (I'm sure the usual suspects will dismiss what he's written):

As a British EU negotiator, I can tell you that Brexit is going to be far worse than anyone could have guessed

Convinces me that the rush to leave by the March 19 deadline is suicidal and we should take as long as needed to make sure we have solutions to some of the issues he's hi-lighted.
Click to expand...

Nobody who voted leave, or remain for that matter, went through these issues before placing a cross on a ballot paper. They voted blind and mostly with very little thought to the big immediate problems, let alone the "surprises" which keep cropping up. Did the Chatham postal worker consider certifying airport saftey workers or what Euratom does? No. But, he is chomping at the bit to leave. He probably hates the drunkard Juncker and Merkel's Fourth Reich in Brussels, but that is the total of his knowledge gained through skimmimg through the gutter press on his coffee break and listening to Farage and BoJo on the Tele.
 
Reactions: clint van damme

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 14, 2017
  • #7,490
martcov said:
Nobody who voted leave, or remain for that matter, went through these issues before placing a cross on a ballot paper. They voted blind and mostly with very little thought to the big immediate problems, let alone the "surprises" which keep cropping up. Did the Chatham postal worker consider certifying airport saftey workers or what Euratom does? No. But, he is chomping at the bit to leave. He probably hates the drunkard Juncker and Merkel's Fourth Reich in Brussels, but that is the total of his knowledge gained through skimmimg through the gutter press on his coffee break and listening to Farage and BoJo on the Tele.
Click to expand...

i agree, I differ slightly from you in that I don't want a 2nd referendum, ( the country is split now, I think that would break it beyond repair),but I wish people would admit to how big this whole thing is, take a pause and plan to get it done in a realistic time scale.
It's becoming apparent that 17 months isn't enough and there's too much focus on the final settlement to the detriment of other key issues.
 
Reactions: Kingokings204 and Astute
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