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The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (10 Viewers)

  • Thread starter jimmyhillsfanclub
  • Start date Jun 8, 2016
Forums New posts

As of right now, how are thinking of voting? In or out

  • Remain

    Votes: 23 37.1%
  • Leave

    Votes: 35 56.5%
  • Undecided

    Votes: 3 4.8%
  • Not registered or not intention to vote

    Votes: 1 1.6%

  • Total voters
    62
  • Poll closed Jun 15, 2016.
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Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Oct 11, 2017
  • #7,001
Astute said:
Why doesn't the EU want to sort it out now then?
Click to expand...

?

I suppose the EU is to blame for the Irish border as well?
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 11, 2017
  • #7,002
Sick Boy said:
Without a deal no side can guarantee anything.
Click to expand...
So why does the EU refuse to talk about it then?
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Oct 11, 2017
  • #7,003
Grendel said:
Sick boy believes the eu have agreed on their side
Click to expand...

Considering they talking about offering associate citizenship for UK residents in the UK, it's unlikely they are going to be bastards about it.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 11, 2017
  • #7,004
Sick Boy said:
?

I suppose the EU is to blame for the Irish border as well?
Click to expand...
Stop being childish. It is only the EU refusing to talk about it.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 11, 2017
  • #7,005
Sick Boy said:
Considering they talking about offering associate citizenship for UK residents in the UK, it's unlikely they are going to be bastards about it.
Click to expand...
But are being bastards about everything else.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 11, 2017
  • #7,006
Sick Boy said:
?

I suppose the EU is to blame for the Irish border as well?
Click to expand...

Basically you just want the uk to drop its trousers when junker comes knocking.

You'll be ok in Italy with their fine tradition of standing up against countries that oppose them
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Oct 11, 2017
  • #7,007
Grendel said:
Basically you just want the uk to drop its trousers when junker comes knocking.

You'll be ok in Italy with their fine tradition of standing up against countries that oppose them
Click to expand...

I see you've fallen into your usual trap of dated stereotyping.

I've already said that both sides should offer residents of the day of withdrawal citizenship. It's hardly the UK dropping it's trousers.
 
Reactions: martcov

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 11, 2017
  • #7,008
Sick Boy said:
I see you've fallen into your usual trap of dated stereotyping.
Click to expand...

Hope you can drive a car with 5 reverse gears
 
S

SkyblueBazza

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 11, 2017
  • #7,009
martcov said:
Quite frankly Brexit could be a good move for the EU. Things will now start rolling. The budget will be scrutinised for savings and reforms will be pushed forward. Not all bad news.
Click to expand...
Except those that enjoyed the fruits will be less fruitful...& become disenchanted. And if Britain begins to flourish they may want out of the EU too!

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk
 
Reactions: Astute
S

SkyblueBazza

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 11, 2017
  • #7,010
clint van damme said:
OBR downgrades it's UK forecasts for the next 5 years,
IMF called the UK a notable exception to an improving global outlook but it's meaningless, OK then!
Click to expand...
In fairness...they have been wrong in the past as well as right.

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Oct 12, 2017
  • #7,011
Theresa May does not hesitate to say she would kill 100,000 with nuclear strike

It's strange that she was unable to answer a hypothetical question this time, yet said she would be willing to kill with a nuclear bomb? Does she think a nuclear strike is more likely than a 2nd referendum? Or perhaps she is just an incompetent and desperate PM clinging to power?
 
Reactions: clint van damme
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 12, 2017
  • #7,012
Astute said:
I have been told that we should know who our local MEP is. It is the EU that is refusing to do a deal which guarantees the rights of EU citizens living elsewhere to where they come from. So what could be better than starting with your MEP?
Click to expand...

It is the UK that want to deny some of the rights of EU citizens. Or as May she would have to look at certain aspects. The EU want all rights recognised.
 
Reactions: Sick Boy
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 12, 2017
  • #7,013
Astute said:
Stop being childish. It is only the EU refusing to talk about it.
Click to expand...

The EU wants a sea border with the UK which would mean NI remains in the Customs Union. The UK doesn’t want that.
 

SIR ERNIE

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 12, 2017
  • #7,014
martcov said:
The EU want all rights recognised.
Click to expand...

Actually the truth is that they are refusing to discuss the subject unless we pay them huge wads of cash.
Which sounds a lot like they're using them as bargaining chips to me.

On the other hand the PM asked last year that they be specifically excluded from negotiations and their status safeguarded but was rebuffed.
 
Reactions: Kingokings204 and Astute

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Oct 12, 2017
  • #7,015
SIR ERNIE said:
Actually the truth is that they are refusing to discuss the subject unless we pay them huge wads of cash.
Which sounds a lot like they're using them as bargaining chips to me.

On the other hand the PM asked last year that they be specifically excluded from negotiations and their status safeguarded but was rebuffed.
Click to expand...

Actually the elected European parliament has passed a resolution asking for the UK to submit proposals to guarantee the rights and status or all of the 4.5 million.

May offered "safety" and "reassurance", not full citizenship. However I do believe that both sides should resolve to settle this ASAP.
 
Reactions: martcov

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 12, 2017
  • #7,016
martcov said:
It is the UK that want to deny some of the rights of EU citizens. Or as May she would have to look at certain aspects. The EU want all rights recognised.
Click to expand...
The EU won't come to any agreement on anything until they find out how much they can get out of us for leaving.

It is May that has said she will come to an agreement with each country if she can if the EU won't come to any agreement.
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Oct 12, 2017
  • #7,017
Astute said:
The EU won't come to any agreement on anything until they find out how much they can get out of us for leaving.

It is May that has said she will come to an agreement with each country if she can if the EU won't come to any agreement.
Click to expand...

Then it goes to show just how utterly clueless she is. Frightening stuff.
 
Reactions: martcov

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 12, 2017
  • #7,018
martcov said:
The EU wants a sea border with the UK which would mean NI remains in the Customs Union. The UK doesn’t want that.
Click to expand...
So what makes you say that?

The English channel is between us and the rest of Europe. You can't change that. The rest of it depends on if a deal can be made and what it consists of concerning trade. The less of a deal the more of a border.

If you know that the EU wants a solid border you also know that they don't want any kind of deal.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 12, 2017
  • #7,019
Sick Boy said:
Actually the elected European parliament has passed a resolution asking for the UK to submit proposals to guarantee the rights and status or all of the 4.5 million.

May offered "safety" and "reassurance", not full citizenship. However I do believe that both sides should resolve to settle this ASAP.
Click to expand...
Proposals they refuse to talk about. Yet you are trying to pass the blame onto the UK.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 12, 2017
  • #7,020
Sick Boy said:
Then it goes to show just how utterly clueless she is. Frightening stuff.
Click to expand...
So would you prefer her to be like the EU and refuse to have talks so residents can't make long term plans?

Are you happy that the EU are refusing to have talks so you don't know if your partner can stay here or you can move to Verona as you plan?
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 12, 2017
  • #7,021
Astute said:
So what makes you say that?

The English channel is between us and the rest of Europe. You can't change that. The rest of it depends on if a deal can be made and what it consists of concerning trade. The less of a deal the more of a border.

If you know that the EU wants a solid border you also know that they don't want any kind of deal.
Click to expand...

Northern Ireland is a land border and there is no sea between them and the EU. The EU wants a sea border. That means no customs border with ROI. Can only be achieved if NI remains in the Customs Union.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 12, 2017
  • #7,022
Astute said:
Proposals they refuse to talk about. Yet you are trying to pass the blame onto the UK.
Click to expand...

May has been vague on the subject and you blame the EU who have been open.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 12, 2017
  • #7,023
martcov said:
Northern Ireland is a land border and there is no sea between them and the EU. The EU wants a sea border. That means no customs border with ROI. Can only be achieved if NI remains in the Customs Union.
Click to expand...
The EU can fuck off if they want to cause any difficulties in Ireland. Customs union or not.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 12, 2017
  • #7,024
martcov said:
May has been vague on the subject and you blame the EU who have been open.
Click to expand...
Your bias is becoming a joke.

The EU has been open because they admit that they won't start talks until it is agreed how much we will pay them to leave. Yet May is vague because she has tried to say what will happen depending on what the EU does next?
 
Reactions: Captain Dart
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 12, 2017
  • #7,025
SIR ERNIE said:
Actually the truth is that they are refusing to discuss the subject unless we pay them huge wads of cash.
Which sounds a lot like they're using them as bargaining chips to me.

On the other hand the PM asked last year that they be specifically excluded from negotiations and their status safeguarded but was rebuffed.
Click to expand...

It’s dead easy really. The EU wants the immediate problems solved. The things that worry their constituents. This includes the UK confirming that it will honor it’s commitments before it leaves and saying what will happen to EU citizens and putting
up a workable proposal for the border. Being vague and blaming the EU is merely deflecting. It is also because the cabinet is divided on how we do that.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 12, 2017
  • #7,026
Astute said:
Your bias is becoming a joke.

The EU has been open because they admit that they won't start talks until it is agreed how much we will pay them to leave. Yet May is vague because she has tried to say what will happen depending on what the EU does next?
Click to expand...

Says the man whose middle names include Bias and I Hate Juncker.
 
Reactions: Sick Boy

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 12, 2017
  • #7,027
martcov said:
It’s dead easy really. The EU wants the immediate problems solved. The things that worry their constituents. This includes the UK confirming that it will honor it’s commitments before it leaves and saying what will happen to EU citizens and putting
up a workable proposal for the border. Being vague and blaming the EU is merely deflecting. It is also because the cabinet is divided on how we do that.
Click to expand...
Yet again it is the EU that is refusing to talk about anything but money. So they say that there are no advances in talks. Of course there are not. Just like what they want.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 12, 2017
  • #7,028
martcov said:
Says the man whose middle names include Bias and I Hate Juncker.
Click to expand...
I do not try and blame one side all the time. I have a go at all sides. I say that there is good and bad about both staying in and leaving.

You?
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Oct 12, 2017
  • #7,029
Astute said:
So would you prefer her to be like the EU and refuse to have talks so residents can't make long term plans?

Are you happy that the EU are refusing to have talks so you don't know if your partner can stay here or you can move to Verona as you plan?
Click to expand...

They have said they want to. I will be able to move over there as I have an Irish passport.
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Oct 12, 2017
  • #7,030
Astute said:
The EU can fuck off if they want to cause any difficulties in Ireland. Customs union or not.
Click to expand...

The problems in Ireland have all been created by Britain, nothing to do with the EU.
 
Reactions: martcov

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 12, 2017
  • #7,031
Sick Boy said:
They have said they want to. I will be able to move over there as I have an Irish passport.
Click to expand...
If they want to have talks like you say why haven't they happened?
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 12, 2017
  • #7,032
Sick Boy said:
The problems in Ireland have all been created by Britain, nothing to do with the EU.
Click to expand...

The EU was a great help to Ireland. Without the EU there would never have been the Celtic Tiger. Without us all being in the Eu protected by EU citizens rights and courts we would probably never had the GFA. The GFA has been put at risk by Brexit. People like the postal worker in Chatham that Bazza quoted as chomping at the bit to leave the EU has never given a millisecond thought to what Brexit actually entails, let alone the problems it creates for other people.

For British people to accuse the EU of causing problems with the Irish border is the biggest joke, if you can joke about Brexit, that I have heard up until now. I think Astute should start reading up on Irish history starting with the first Lord Lieutenant and his friends. He might see that the EU and even Juncker have nothing to do with the basic problems of a border in Ireland.
 
Reactions: Sick Boy

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 12, 2017
  • #7,033
Sick Boy said:
The problems in Ireland have all been created by Britain, nothing to do with the EU.
Click to expand...
The EU wanting to create a border is the fault of the UK?

All the problems of the past were because of the British government. But not if there is a forced border of any kind this time that the EU brings in.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 12, 2017
  • #7,034
martcov said:
The EU was a great help to Ireland. Without the EU there would never have been the Celtic Tiger. Without us all being in the Eu protected by EU citizens rights and courts we would probably never had the GFA. The GFA has been put at risk by Brexit. People like the postal worker in Chatham that Bazza quoted as chomping at the bit to leave the EU has never given a millisecond thought to what Brexit actually entails, let alone the problems it creates for other people.

For British people to accuse the EU of causing problems with the Irish border is the biggest joke, if you can joke about Brexit, that I have heard up until now. I think Astute should start reading up on Irish history starting with the first Lord Lieutenant and his friends. He might see that the EU and even Juncker have nothing to do with the basic problems of a border in Ireland.
Click to expand...
I come from Irish descendants. I know what has gone on over the years. It isn't me who needs a history lesson.

So if the EU brings in a border of any kind it is nothing to do with the EU?
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 12, 2017
  • #7,035
Astute said:
I do not try and blame one side all the time. I have a go at all sides. I say that there is good and bad about both staying in and leaving.

You?
Click to expand...

Oh really...? I have said often enough that the EU needs reform and that I am pleased that people like Macron are putting ideas on the table. Even if I don’t agree with everything. A major reform is necessary and this made be the upside of Brexit that things start moving forward. I think Brexit was unnecessary and brought about by certain people appealing to the worst in some people, whilst building a united Europe after the war was appealing to the best in people. We have had no internal wars during the building of the EU. Long may that continue. Before you go on about NATO, NATO Expansion could be the most likely cause of a European conflict in the future. A European defence force which could take over protecting the EU may actually be a better long term solution to relations with Russia as opposed to a force dominated by an increasingly unreliable and warlike USA. It should at least be discussed.
 
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