Astute
Well-Known Member
So you won't listen to anything or anyone and know that you are right.
So you won't listen to anything or anyone and know that you are right.Its nothing to do with Junker or the EU remember, we're taking back control and don't have to listen to anyone else.
It will be down to the UK to decide who is allowed in to the UK. Why can nobody say, or even give a vague idea, of what the rules are likely to be.
Its as if the whole thing wasn't thought through and we're now trying to do everything on the fly.
Ridiculous to vote to leave the EU as its in our best interests but then complain if the EU looks to protect its own interests.
Once again showing that leaving the EU will not resolve the issues people were claiming it would as it is not under the control of the EU.
So yet again you are confirming leaving the EU will not have any impact as it wasn't the EU causing the issues people were unhappy about.
That shouldn't happen. Everyone has a right to a peaceful life unless breaking the law.In the real world I had a local policeman randomly banging on my door at 7am in Verona to check my I'D and work contract after producing it at the local commune.
I would assume he either has the money to cover his stay and therefore meets the requirements or he would get a job and therefore meet the requirements.So sick boy and Martcov are liars when they said astute could pitch his camper van in a EU country for how long he wants if we stay?
Yes of course as he would still be in the first three months.What happens if someone gets a job for a week having come to the country and then is made unemployed? Can he stay then and seek work here?
Far from it but I fail to see how we can both leave the EU to enable us to have total control and not be dictated to by Europe and also be dependent on the wishes of the EU as to how we shape our own immigration policy.So you won't listen to anything or anyone and know that you are right.
And we have the manpower to check about 150,000 each year minimum?I would assume he either has the money to cover his stay and therefore meets the requirements or he would get a job and therefore meet the requirements.
Yes of course as he would still be in the first three months.
Aren't you making an assumption that the reason deportation is difficult is down to the EU and that leaving will resolve those issues when in fact the things that people object to aren't as a result of EU membership and will therefore still apply to us once we leave.No you wouldn't at all - deportation is made in exceptional circumstances and also if you had a job (say a bar job) for a week it becomes even more difficult - that's according to the EU website.
And you know you are twisting what I said.Far from it but I fail to see how we can both leave the EU to enable us to have total control and not be dictated to by Europe and also be dependent on the wishes of the EU as to how we shape our own immigration policy.
So the EU rules are not down to the EU?Aren't you making an assumption that the reason deportation is difficult is down to the EU and that leaving will resolve those issues when in fact the things that people object to aren't as a result of EU membership and will therefore still apply to us once we leave.
That's the whole point which you can't seem to comprehend!!! If we don't have the resources now how are these resources going to magically appear when we leave the EU?And we have the manpower to check about 150,000 each year minimum?
Seems like you either live in cloud cuckoo land or can't think of a decent point.
So if they can't remove non EU residents when they have the paperwork how are they supposed to keep tabs on EU residents and remove them when needed?
We have our borders. We can control who comes in. Either have money or a job to go to. If not entry is refused.That's the whole point which you can't seem to comprehend!!! If we don't have the resources now how are these resources going to magically appear when we leave the EU?
I would suggest they won't and nothing will really change. People such as those who are currently here legitimately will continue to come here as we will still need their labour. Those who currently come here under more dubious circumstances will continue to come here as we have no means to stop them.
Thats not what I consider taking back control of our borders as we were promised.
No I'm not. I've repeatedly asked you what form the UKs immigration policy should take post Brexit and the response so far has been its down to Junker.And you know you are twisting what I said.
EU rules are down to the EU, non EU rules are not down to the EU. If the rules that are causing us problems, or perceived problems, then leaving the EU will not resolve them.So the EU rules are not down to the EU?
But you've said we don't have the manpower to enforce a system like that. Or are you suggesting a ban on tourists?We have our borders. We can control who comes in. Either have money or a job to go to. If not entry is refused.
That is much better than we have now.
Tourists don't have money?But you've said we don't have the manpower to enforce a system like that. Or are you suggesting a ban on tourists?
Juncker makes the rules as he goes along. Like his speech yesterday. Were you happy with it?No I'm not. I've repeatedly asked you what form the UKs immigration policy should take post Brexit and the response so far has been its down to Junker.
EU rules are down to the EU, non EU rules are not down to the EU. If the rules that are causing us problems, or perceived problems, then leaving the EU will not resolve them.
They do, so if someone comes over with enough money for a weekend how do you ensure they leave at the end of the weekend?Tourists don't have money?
That shouldn't happen. Everyone has a right to a peaceful life unless breaking the law.
You put them in a detention centre for the weekend. Happy now?They do, so if someone comes over with enough money for a weekend how do you ensure they leave at the end of the weekend?
I agree with some of what he said and I disagree with other parts. I don't share your view that the EU is a dictatorship and he can do whatever he likes unchallenged.Juncker makes the rules as he goes along. Like his speech yesterday. Were you happy with it?
But the point I have been making for months is the leave campaigners don't know what they want and the leave voters didn't know what they were voting for. I keep being told I am wrong and people knew exactly what they were voting for but even a relatively simple question like what our immigration policy will look like draws no answers.So what is brexit going to look like? Tell me and I will tell you what we should do.
I think that's your make believe world.
Still wrong though. Never had a problem in Italy myself...other than when I burn them off in my car in Milan :smuggrin:It's part of their own procedure and I wanted to live there, so I couldn't really complain.
And what manpower is going round locating these people, carrying out those checks and putting them in the detention centre which presumably somebody will need to finance and build? What happens at the end of the weekend, remember we can't deport them as the non-EU regulations which previously stopped us doing that still apply.You put them in a detention centre for the weekend. Happy now?
Had an easy day at work today. We ended up talking about what Juncker said yesterday. It has given those who were 100% remain something to think about.I agree with some of what he said and I disagree with other parts. I don't share your view that the EU is a dictatorship and he can do whatever he likes unchallenged.
Was I happy with it? Wasn't really happy or anything else, we're not a member anymore.
But the point I have been making for months is the leave campaigners don't know what they want and the leave voters didn't know what they were voting for. I keep being told I am wrong and people knew exactly what they were voting for but even a relatively simple question like what our immigration policy will look like draws no answers.
Still wrong though. Never had a problem in Italy myself...other than when I burn them off in my car in Milan :smuggrin:
We would make our own laws. We wouldn't be stuck with what Juncker says.And what manpower is going round locating these people, carrying out those checks and putting them in the detention centre which presumably somebody will need to finance and build? What happens at the end of the weekend, remember we can't deport them as the non-EU regulations which previously stopped us doing that still apply.
But we would still have to adhere to the likes of the council of Europe, ECHR etc of which we are still a member and those are the bodies creating the issues people complain about like not being able to deport people. Leaving the EU and ignoring Juncker won't change that.We would make our own laws. We wouldn't be stuck with what Juncker says.
In your earlier post you said "Its nothing to do with Junker or the EU remember, we're taking back control and don't have to listen to anyone else.Far from it but I fail to see how we can both leave the EU to enable us to have total control and not be dictated to by Europe and also be dependent on the wishes of the EU as to how we shape our own immigration policy.
Of course we have the manpower...the current unemployed will likely step in with immediate effect if they are offered a decent remunerationBut you've said we don't have the manpower to enforce a system like that. Or are you suggesting a ban on tourists?
The systems are in place to flag up one way travellers...eventually they would be found - here just as in France or Germany or Italy...& increasingly others tooThey do, so if someone comes over with enough money for a weekend how do you ensure they leave at the end of the weekend?
Such a renegade! LolIt was a bit too early, especially as I had pulled the night beforeI even got stopped by the traffic police for crossing the road whike a light was green.
I wouldn't be TOO sure of that. The EU will still have a major influence over UK decisions...just will not be enforcing of their dictatesWe would make our own laws. We wouldn't be stuck with what Juncker says.
But we would still have to adhere to the likes of the council of Europe, ECHR etc of which we are still a member and those are the bodies creating the issues people complain about like not being able to deport people. Leaving the EU and ignoring Juncker won't change that.
We would have control of our own borders. This way an EU passport doesn't mean you can enter. It won't be foolproof. But it would be much better than we have now.
I would easily prefer it if we could let people in that need a safe place to live than just those that think they have the right to be here. Commit crimes, get arrested, serve time and get deported.
And as for those who enter then disappear...no benefits would be payable. No housing would have to be found. Big fines for anyone who employs them. Take away the reasons for being here.
Is there anyone who would prefer to let those in with an EU passport over those in need of a safe place to live?
They do, so if someone comes over with enough money for a weekend how do you ensure they leave at the end of the weekend?
We would have control of our own borders. This way an EU passport doesn't mean you can enter. It won't be foolproof. But it would be much better than we have now.
I would easily prefer it if we could let people in that need a safe place to live than just those that think they have the right to be here. Commit crimes, get arrested, serve time and get deported.
And as for those who enter then disappear...no benefits would be payable. No housing would have to be found. Big fines for anyone who employs them. Take away the reasons for being here.
Is there anyone who would prefer to let those in with an EU passport over those in need of a safe place to live?
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