The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (13 Viewers)

SkyblueBazza · Jul 21, 2017

martcov said:
I am an economic migrant in Germany- left Cov in 1981 during the collapse of the car industry. I employ people, pay taxes, pay tax assessments based on fictive calculations by the tax office, made a child who will carry on paying taxes when I've gone... won't get a state pension as I am self employed... I would think Germany would be happy enough..

There are millions of migrants who go abroad to work and help the economy of their new country. Just blaming them in the U.K. for you being late for work etc. is stupid.

Farage used the same arguments about the M4. You are in good company.

At a guess, you legally entered said country (thank you Germany...please confiscate his passport!)...so that negates all the other stuff.

And again, I am not specifically blaming the migrants - the process which allows the undermining of the hard-pressed infrastructure.

Although again, as I have pointed out to others...we were discussing the 'awful' living conditions these wanna-be illegal entrants...I say they are choosing to live like it so why feel sorry for them?

Sick Boy uses the same arguments as you...so you're in good company too

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Sick Boy · Jul 21, 2017

SkyblueBazza said:
At a guess, you legally entered said country (thank you Germany...please confiscate his passport!)...so that negates all the other stuff.

And again, I am not specifically blaming the migrants - the process which allows the undermining of the hard-pressed infrastructure.

Although again, as I have pointed out to others...we were discussing the 'awful' living conditions these wanna-be illegal entrants...I say they are choosing to live like it so why feel sorry for them?

Sick Boy uses the same arguments as you...so you're in good company too

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You were going on about open borders before and letting anyone in. Not sure what that has to do with illegal migrants.

SkyblueBazza · Jul 21, 2017

Sick Boy said:
You were going on about open borders before and letting anyone in. Not sure what that has to do with illegal migrants.

I was the further we strayed from the original point. But yes - I am personally against borderless nations. It just sets things up for trouble of many sorts imo. Not least the pressure on infrastructure as we have already discussed. And yes I am against illegal entrants too

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martcov · Jul 21, 2017

SkyblueBazza said:
I was the further we strayed from the original point. But yes - I am personally against borderless nations. It just sets things up for trouble of many sorts imo. Not least the pressure on infrastructure as we have already discussed. And yes I am against illegal entrants too

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Name a borderless nation.

martcov · Jul 21, 2017

SkyblueBazza said:
Same way as walking about with an AK47 & a bomb-laden rucksack doesn't make you a terrorist unless or until you start shooting & detonating.

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Trying to find a job the same as walking around with a AK47 and a bomb. Ok.

martcov · Jul 21, 2017

SkyblueBazza said:
At a guess, you legally entered said country (thank you Germany...please confiscate his passport!)...so that negates all the other stuff.

And again, I am not specifically blaming the migrants - the process which allows the undermining of the hard-pressed infrastructure.

Although again, as I have pointed out to others...we were discussing the 'awful' living conditions these wanna-be illegal entrants...I say they are choosing to live like it so why feel sorry for them?

Sick Boy uses the same arguments as you...so you're in good company too

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Better company than being politically in the same boat as Farage.

Kingokings204 · Jul 21, 2017

martcov said:
Better company than being politically in the same boat as Farage.

4m voted for farage in 2015 GE. He forced an EU referendum and to top it all won the biggest political debate for a generation or two. It's seems you are just jealous and hate his success.

clint van damme · Jul 21, 2017

Kingokings204 said:
4m voted for farage in 2015 GE. He forced an EU referendum and to top it all won the biggest political debate for a generation or two. It's seems you are just jealous and hate his success.

going by your logic you must be a huge admirer of hitler.

martcov · Jul 21, 2017

Kingokings204 said:
4m voted for farage in 2015 GE. He forced an EU referendum and to top it all won the biggest political debate for a generation or two. It's seems you are just jealous and hate his success.

I am not jealous of Farage. I don't hate his success. I hate him. Having success is not a way of measuring what is right or wrong. Mao, Lenin, Hitler, Pol Pott etc. all had "success" as did ISIS recently. I hate them all, but it has nothing to do with success or me being jealous.

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 · Jul 21, 2017

Meanwhile, one year later...

skybluetony176 · Jul 21, 2017

Kingokings204 said:
4m voted for farage in 2015 GE. He forced an EU referendum and to top it all won the biggest political debate for a generation or two. It's seems you are just jealous and hate his success.

Does that mean that 3.2M had seen the light by the 2017 general election?

jimmyhillsfanclub · Jul 21, 2017

Maybe I misunderstand it, but after yesterdays talks, it appears that the EU want their cake & eat it with regards the retention of rights of their respective citizens.....

The EU want any europeans living in the UK to retain all the rights & benefits currently afforded them......and want it extended to all family members etc. even after death of the original rights holder....

.....yet they also aim to restrict the movement of UK citizens from one EU state to another......and any UK familiy members would not automatically qualify for the same status as their EU equivalents.....

....don't seem fair to me......but then "fair" is not something the EU have much of a track record in I suppose.....

Brexit: UK and EU at odds over 'exit bill' - BBC News

Malaka · Jul 21, 2017

jimmyhillsfanclub said:
Maybe I misunderstand it, but after yesterdays talks, it appears that the EU want their cake & eat it with regards the retention of rights of their respective citizens.....

The EU want any europeans living in the UK to retain all the rights & benefits currently afforded them......and want it extended to all family members etc. even after death of the original rights holder....

.....yet they also aim to restrict the movement of UK citizens from one EU state to another......and any UK familiy members would not automatically qualify for the same status as their EU equivalents.....

....don't seem fair to me......but then "fair" is not something the EU have much of a track record in I suppose.....

Brexit: UK and EU at odds over 'exit bill' - BBC News

Why shouldn't they? they moved here and the UK changed the goalposts, it is not their fault. They are still EU citizens and should have their rights protected. If they apply for British Citizenship then they should abide by our rules. The UK chose not to be part of the EU, Brits abroad should apply for citizenship or their chosen nation should they wish to do so. I do not agree with the relatives part

Sick Boy · Jul 21, 2017

jimmyhillsfanclub said:
Maybe I misunderstand it, but after yesterdays talks, it appears that the EU want their cake & eat it with regards the retention of rights of their respective citizens.....

The EU want any europeans living in the UK to retain all the rights & benefits currently afforded them......and want it extended to all family members etc. even after death of the original rights holder....

.....yet they also aim to restrict the movement of UK citizens from one EU state to another......and any UK familiy members would not automatically qualify for the same status as their EU equivalents.....

....don't seem fair to me......but then "fair" is not something the EU have much of a track record in I suppose.....

Brexit: UK and EU at odds over 'exit bill' - BBC News

It's due to those being given 'settled' status in the UK losing it if they leave the country for 2 years.

martcov · Jul 21, 2017

Malaka said:
Why shouldn't they? they moved here and the UK changed the goalposts, it is not their fault. They are still EU citizens and should have their rights protected. If they apply for British Citizenship then they should abide by our rules. The UK chose not to be part of the EU, Brits abroad should apply for citizenship or their chosen nation should they wish to do so. I do not agree with the relatives part

Yes. They should apply for the citizenship of the country where they choose to leave live. It depends though on where you live how complicated it is. At the moment I could retain my British citizenship- I don't want to lose that because I am still British regardless of where I live. As long as you can both - where you live and what you are - then I'm with you. But it is not certain if that will continue.

I will never stop being British regardless of the documents... I wouldn't turn into a Villa fan if I lived in Birmingham either.

clint van damme · Jul 21, 2017

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
Meanwhile, one year later...

you enjoying watching the country go down the pan? Strange.

SkyblueBazza · Jul 21, 2017

martcov said:
Trying to find a job the same as walking around with a AK47 and a bomb. Ok.

You asked me a question...I gave you an example to demonstrate the answer.
Did you not understand it?

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SkyblueBazza · Jul 21, 2017

martcov said:
Name a borderless nation.

Scotland

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SkyblueBazza · Jul 21, 2017

martcov said:
Better company than being politically in the same boat as Farage.

Am I?

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SkyblueBazza · Jul 21, 2017

martcov said:
I am not jealous of Farage. I don't hate his success. I hate him. Having success is not a way of measuring what is right or wrong. Mao, Lenin, Hitler, Pol Pott etc. all had "success" as did ISIS recently. I hate them all, but it has nothing to do with success or me being jealous.

And YOU decide what is right or wrong or everybody don't you Mart?

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Earlsdon_Skyblue1 · Jul 21, 2017

clint van damme said:
you enjoying watching the country go down the pan? Strange.

1) It doesn't have to.
2) That's the real view of a lot of Remainer's I encounter. They would quite happily see the country go down the toilet so they can be proved right.
3) Take point 2 out of the equation and point 1 becomes more realistic.

clint van damme · Jul 21, 2017

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
1) It doesn't have to.
2) That's the real view of a lot of Remainer's I encounter. They would quite happily see the country go down the toilet so they can be proved right.
3) Take point 2 out of the equation and point 1 becomes more realistic.

so on one hand you're saying remainers are crying about the brexit vote and on the other hand they want to see the country go down the pan? Surely you can't have it both ways?

As for the country not going down the pan, hopefully I'm wrong, but with davis. johnson and may involved I can't see any other outcome.

Kingokings204 · Jul 21, 2017

clint van damme said:
going by your logic you must be a huge admirer of hitler.

Genuinely find this funny. Made my day.

I gave some facts about Nigel farage and I am a "huge admirer of hitler" now. No wonder the left has gone the pan in this country.

Going by your logic you like orange cheesecake. Yes that doesn't make any sense either.

skybluetony176 · Jul 21, 2017

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
Meanwhile, one year later...

If it's a caption competition I'm going for "we know what we voted for"

skybluetony176 · Jul 21, 2017

Kingokings204 said:
Going by your logic you like orange cheesecake. Yes that doesn't make any sense either.

It makes perfect sense. Who doesn't like cheesecake. It's awesome. Hell, I bet even Hitler liked cheesecake.

martcov · Jul 21, 2017

SkyblueBazza said:
And YOU decide what is right or wrong or everybody don't you Mart?

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Yes... I do. I think most people decide who is right or who is wrong - it is called having an opinion. In my opinion Lenin, Mao, Hitler, Stalin and your mate Farage are/ were wrong.

martcov · Jul 21, 2017

SkyblueBazza said:
Scotland

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So, to get around having to show my passport I just fly to Glasgow and no one is interested who I am.

I see.

martcov · Jul 21, 2017

Kingokings204 said:
Genuinely find this funny. Made my day.

I gave some facts about Nigel farage and I am a "huge admirer of hitler" now. No wonder the left has gone the pan in this country.

Going by your logic you like orange cheesecake. Yes that doesn't make any sense either.

You are the one who said success is a criteria for liking or hating a politician. Hitler had enormous success- at first. You admire Farage rather than hate Farage as I do based on him having success.

Follow your own logic and see where you land.

clint van damme · Jul 21, 2017

Kingokings204 said:
Genuinely find this funny. Made my day.

I gave some facts about Nigel farage and I am a "huge admirer of hitler" now. No wonder the left has gone the pan in this country.

Going by your logic you like orange cheesecake. Yes that doesn't make any sense either.

Martcovs post below pretty well sums up how I was going to reply.

martcov said:
You are the one who said success is a criteria for liking or hating a politician. Hitler had enormous success- at first. You admire Farage rather than hate Farage as I do based on him having success.

Follow your own logic and see where you land.

Kingokings204 · Jul 21, 2017

martcov said:
You are the one who said success is a criteria for liking or hating a politician. Hitler had enormous success- at first. You admire Farage rather than hate Farage as I do based on him having success.

Follow your own logic and see where you land.

But youre comparing a man who killed millions of Jews in concentration camps to a guy who hasn't even enough power to be an MP. It's bizzare to say the least.

SIR ERNIE · Jul 21, 2017

martcov said:
You are the one who said success is a criteria for liking or hating a politician. .

The only one who's said that is you.

martcov · Jul 21, 2017

SIR ERNIE said:
The only one who's said that is you.

Er.... not true...

KoK: for a generation or two. "It's seems you are just jealous and hate his success."

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 · Jul 21, 2017

clint van damme said:
so on one hand you're saying remainers are crying about the brexit vote and on the other hand they want to see the country go down the pan? Surely you can't have it both ways?

As for the country not going down the pan, hopefully I'm wrong, but with davis. johnson and may involved I can't see any other outcome.

I think the second bit qualifies the first to be honest.

I agree, the negotiations and the representatives don't fill me with any confidence at the moment, but from a general perspective I believe Brexit can succeed.

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 · Jul 21, 2017

skybluetony176 said:
If it's a caption competition I'm going for "we know what we voted for"

I certainly did :shamefullyembarrased:.

SkyblueBazza · Jul 21, 2017

martcov said:
Yes... I do. I think most people decide who is right or who is wrong - it is called having an opinion. In my opinion Lenin, Mao, Hitler, Stalin and your mate Farage are/ were wrong.

Never met Farage...you obviously get to choose people's friends for them too it seems.
All hail Martcov

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