The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (5 Viewers)

Astute · Sep 10, 2019

Sick Boy said:
Why are you bringing in people crossing the sea and fleeing a country to EU migrants?

And actually that c**t Salvini is now longer in government, so expect the hardline position to end.

I’m talking about Italy, i didn’t know you’d moved here as well. Each country has their own individual requirements.

A typical reply from yourself.

Lets not talk about what is happening in Italy. But it is OK for you to mention what is happening in Italy.

So what has happened to your united EU? Do you think that the EU is right when they rule that ALL illegal immigrants should stay where they land?

How is Italy supposed to deal with the situation? What help is the EU giving? Italy can't afford any more drains on their economy. They are struggling as they are. But better there than Germany I suppose.

So now you say all countries are different. Not what your first post was made to sound like. You made it sound like the UK welcomes everyone from the EU when nobody else does.

Brighton Sky Blue · Sep 10, 2019

Astute said:
All?

Work out the maths. 30% go to uni. So only 21% of the remaining 70% remaining is needed. So of course the younger vote goes to those who promise them what they want.

It is easy to promise something that you most probably not be able to give.

Don’t people generally vote for their own best interests? Better to be ambitious with policies and find ways to achieve them instead of pledging garbage

Deleted member 5849 · Sep 10, 2019

Astute said:
Name everything you have been critical of that is remain.

Finished already?

It'd be longer than listing your coherent posts. tbh I stopped reading them because they were mostly waffly confused misinterpreted bollocks.

Astute · Sep 10, 2019

skybluetony176 said:
?

Exactly. You want to play with numbers but you are lacking the acumen needed to understand the topic of which you broach.

skybluetony176 · Sep 10, 2019

Grendel said:
Student population of that age group is much higher anyway it’s closer to 50%

Really? Where are you getting those figures from?

skybluetony176 · Sep 10, 2019

Astute said:
Exactly. You want to play with numbers but you are lacking the acumen needed to understand the topic of which you broach.

Ha ha ha ha, yeah. Good one.

Young voters, class and turnout: how Britain voted in 2017

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Sep 10, 2019

Astute said:
Exactly. You want to play with numbers but you are lacking the acumen needed to understand the topic of which you broach.

But what was the point? You've talked about how only 30% of the non-student young vote need to vote Labour in order for them to be the most popular party. But that's you assuming that every single student votes Labour - they don't. It's around 65% (which equates to roughly 20% of the entire age group). Therefore roughly half of the non student young voters also have to vote Labour for them to be the majority in the age group.

IIRC Labour got the most student vote (and they did offer scrapping tuition fees as a manifesto pledge and a small maintenance grant I believe)
Second were the Tories, who didn't offer anything to students
Third were Lib Dems, who also didn't offer to scrap tuition fees although may have may some noises about a review on them
Then the Greens I believe, who offered free tuition, maintenance grants and also made noises about cancelling student debt

Which is interesting as apparently students vote for who'll give them the most, yet the party that offered them the most only came fourth, behind two parties who offered them pretty much nothing.

Sick Boy · Sep 10, 2019

Astute said:
A typical reply from yourself.

Lets not talk about what is happening in Italy. But it is OK for you to mention what is happening in Italy.

So what has happened to your united EU? Do you think that the EU is right when they rule that ALL illegal immigrants should stay where they land?

How is Italy supposed to deal with the situation? What help is the EU giving? Italy can't afford any more drains on their economy. They are struggling as they are. But better there than Germany I suppose.

So now you say all countries are different. Not what your first post was made to sound like. You made it sound like the UK welcomes everyone from the EU when nobody else does.

Yet more twisted bollocks.

I never said all countries are the same, it’s your problem with not being able to understand basic comprehension.

djr8369 · Sep 10, 2019

Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
But what was the point? You've talked about how only 30% of the non-student young vote need to vote Labour in order for them to be the most popular party. But that's you assuming that every single student votes Labour - they don't. It's around 65% (which equates to roughly 20% of the entire age group). Therefore over half of the non student young voters also have to vote Labour for them to be the majority in the age group.

IIRC Labour got the most student vote (and they did offer scrapping tuition fees as a manifesto pledge and a small maintenance grant I believe)
Second were the Tories, who didn't offer anything to students
Third were Lib Dems, who also didn't offer to scrap tuition fees although may have may some noises about a review on them
Then the Greens I believe, who offered free tuition, maintenance grants and also made noises about cancelling student debt

Which is interesting as apparently students vote for who'll give them the most, yet the party that offered them the most only came fourth, behind two parties who offered them pretty much nothing.

We don’t need your critical thought ruining the narrative that all those lazy students vote labour because they’ll get free phones or something though.

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djr8369 · Sep 10, 2019

clint van damme said:
the tories haven't addressed the buy to let issue, they've just made it more difficult for the small landlord to invest in that market.
The new tax laws have made little difference to the large letting agencies.
Literally the day Osbourn announced the new tax laws, (even though they weren't introduced at that point~), there were reps from letting agencies in London going door to door in Earsldon asking if people wanted to sell.

If you wee been kind you could say they tried to free up more housing stock but I'm about more cynical about their intentions to be honest.

All they’ve done is made it more difficult for the normal worker trying to better themselves while leaving it wide open for abuse by companies owned by their families and mates. Same old same old.

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Grendel · Sep 10, 2019

skybluetony176 said:
Really? Where are you getting those figures from?

HESA - the figure you refer to is those who immediately join at 18 and excludes those who defer for a year and also other higher education establishments

The Blair government set a 50% target and achieved that in 2017 but the report suggests that that includes under 30’s. These account for 6% and that 44% of those leaving at 18 go into higher education

Grendel · Sep 10, 2019

djr8369 said:
We don’t need your critical thought ruining the narrative that all those lazy students vote labour because they’ll get free phones or something though.

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They vote labour because they are far more likely to have socialist views and these become less as they get older - that’s s reality

When I was at university it was all ban the bomb, boycott Barclays - many had that silly Frank Spencer beret wearing communist T Shirt, in my area of the world then support Scargill and the great revolution - do you really think 30 years on many haven’t looked back on that and laughed?

Even Blair was a fully paid up Marxist

It works both ways as well. Bercow was pretty much the Tommy Robinson of the 80’s

Astute · Sep 10, 2019

Deleted member 5849 said:
It'd be longer than listing your coherent posts. tbh I stopped reading them because they were mostly waffly confused misinterpreted bollocks.

Thanks. But you can't say in what way.

Astute · Sep 10, 2019

Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
But what was the point? You've talked about how only 30% of the non-student young vote need to vote Labour in order for them to be the most popular party. But that's you assuming that every single student votes Labour - they don't. It's around 65% (which equates to roughly 20% of the entire age group). Therefore over half of the non student young voters also have to vote Labour for them to be the majority in the age group.

IIRC Labour got the most student vote (and they did offer scrapping tuition fees as a manifesto pledge and a small maintenance grant I believe)
Second were the Tories, who didn't offer anything to students
Third were Lib Dems, who also didn't offer to scrap tuition fees although may have may some noises about a review on them
Then the Greens I believe, who offered free tuition, maintenance grants and also made noises about cancelling student debt

Which is interesting as apparently students vote for who'll give them the most, yet the party that offered them the most only came fourth, behind two parties who offered them pretty much nothing.

That is a long post to stick up for Tony.

You are dedicated to the cause.

skybluetony176 · Sep 10, 2019

Grendel said:
HESA - the figure you refer to is those who immediately join at 18 and excludes those who defer for a year and also other higher education establishments

The Blair government set a 50% target and achieved that in 2017 but the report suggests that that includes under 30’s. These account for 6% and that 44% of those leaving at 18 go into higher education

That’s where I got my figures from for 2017. HES statistics are that in 2017 967,070 18-20 year olds entered higher education and 655,030 21-24 year old went into higher education. Not sure how you’re equating either to 50% of the population of those age groups.

skybluetony176 · Sep 10, 2019

Astute said:
That is a long post to stick up for Tony.

You are dedicated to the cause.

In other words he’s right.

skybluetony176 · Sep 10, 2019

Grendel said:
Bercow was pretty much the Tommy Robinson of the 80’s

He was more Ferage than Robinson.

Grendel · Sep 10, 2019

Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
But what was the point? You've talked about how only 30% of the non-student young vote need to vote Labour in order for them to be the most popular party. But that's you assuming that every single student votes Labour - they don't. It's around 65% (which equates to roughly 20% of the entire age group). Therefore over half of the non student young voters also have to vote Labour for them to be the majority in the age group.

IIRC Labour got the most student vote (and they did offer scrapping tuition fees as a manifesto pledge and a small maintenance grant I believe)
Second were the Tories, who didn't offer anything to students
Third were Lib Dems, who also didn't offer to scrap tuition fees although may have may some noises about a review on them
Then the Greens I believe, who offered free tuition, maintenance grants and also made noises about cancelling student debt

Which is interesting as apparently students vote for who'll give them the most, yet the party that offered them the most only came fourth, behind two parties who offered them pretty much nothing.

The point is the student population is the most fickle - 50% voted Lib Dem in 2010 and immediately switched allegiance when they lied about their commitment and then swarmed to Corbyn the next free tuition Pied Piper

djr8369 · Sep 10, 2019

Grendel said:
The point is the student population is the most fickle - 50% voted Lib Dem in 2010 and immediately switched allegiance when they lied about their commitment and then swarmed to Corbyn the next free tuition Pied Piper

Fancy being so fickle you look at a parties polices and vote for them accordingly.

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Astute · Sep 10, 2019

Grendel said:
They vote labour because they are far more likely to have socialist views and these become less as they get older - that’s s reality

When I was at university it was all ban the bomb, boycott Barclays - many had that silly Frank Spencer beret wearing communist T Shirt, in my area of the world then support Scargill and the great revolution - do you really think 30 years on many haven’t looked back on that and laughed?

Even Blair was a fully paid up Marxist

It works both ways as well. Bercow was pretty much the Tommy Robinson of the 80’s

Some people just can't handle the truth.

It wasn't that long ago when I said Labour was unelectable with Corbyn in charge. Oh how wrong I was supposed to be. Now he has played into the hands of the Tories. But it will all still be the fault of anyone but Corbyn.

We had Corbyn for many years saying that he wants us out of the EU. Since becoming leader all he has wanted was to become PM. He has been saying for months that we need another GE.

So he now wants us to remain in the EU and he refuses a GE. The first time in history that one has been offered to the opposition and the offer was turned down.

So honestly how trustworthy does he look now? How many Labour voters has he upset?

Ramblings? No. The truth so many want to be kept quiet. And this is without his shady past.

Grendel · Sep 10, 2019

djr8369 said:
Fancy being so fickle you look at a parties polices and vote for them accordingly.

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But they don’t? They look at one policy that benefits them and couldn’t give a toss who picks the bill up so they’d have voted for the Tories if they’d offered the same

That’s why Corbyn wants s voting age reduction - gullible and easy to brainwash - they could have any other policies but as long as they get a few sweeties thrown their way they vote for that party

It’s embarrasing

djr8369 · Sep 10, 2019

Grendel said:
But they don’t? They look at one policy that benefits them and couldn’t give a toss who picks the bill up so they’d have voted for the Tories if they’d offered the same

That’s why Corbyn wants s voting age reduction - gullible and easy to brainwash - they could have any other policies but as long as they get a few sweeties thrown their way they vote for that party

It’s embarrasing

The tax payer picks up the tab. They’re the future tax payers.

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djr8369 · Sep 10, 2019

Astute said:
That is a long post to stick up for Tony.

You are dedicated to the cause.

The cause of looking at and assessing information properly correctly?

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Grendel · Sep 10, 2019

djr8369 said:
The tax payer picks up the tab. They’re the future tax payers.

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Ha ha ha - why should those not going pay? Do they have a choice?

They had no thought process. The party could have said Brexit, bring back hanging, stop the state pension but hey get your student loan free and that’s the student vote wrapped up - no holistic great view just one issue politics - I actually don’t think anyone under 24 should vote unless they are in full time employment

Grendel · Sep 10, 2019

skybluetony176 said:
That’s where I got my figures from for 2017. HES statistics are that in 2017 967,070 18-20 year olds entered higher education and 655,030 21-24 year old went into higher education. Not sure how you’re equating either to 50% of the population of those age groups.

?

Higher Education Student Statistics: UK, 2016/17 - Student numbers and characteristics | HESA

djr8369 · Sep 10, 2019

Grendel said:
Ha ha ha - why should those not going pay? Do they have a choice?

They had no thought process. The party could have said Brexit, bring back hanging, stop the state pension but hey get your student loan free and that’s the student vote wrapped up - no holistic great view just one issue politics - I actually don’t think anyone under 24 should vote unless they are in full time employment

A minute ago they were socialists, now they believe in hanging if they get tuition fees paid.

It seems to be the older generation who are trapped in single issue politcs - Brexit above all else.

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Grendel · Sep 10, 2019

This says 49% by the age of 30

Almost half of all young people in England go on to higher education

Grendel · Sep 10, 2019

djr8369 said:
A minute ago they were socialists, now they believe in hanging if they get tuition fees paid.

It seems to be the older generation who are trapped in single issue politcs - Brexit above all else.

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So if students aren’t trapped in a single issue - why did 50% of them vote for Lib Dem’s in 2010 and 90% of those switch allegiance to the next party to offer free education in 2015/17?

shmmeee · Sep 10, 2019

Astute said:
Some people just can't handle the truth.

It wasn't that long ago when I said Labour was unelectable with Corbyn in charge. Oh how wrong I was supposed to be. Now he has played into the hands of the Tories. But it will all still be the fault of anyone but Corbyn.

We had Corbyn for many years saying that he wants us out of the EU. Since becoming leader all he has wanted was to become PM. He has been saying for months that we need another GE.

So he now wants us to remain in the EU and he refuses a GE. The first time in history that one has been offered to the opposition and the offer was turned down.

So honestly how trustworthy does he look now? How many Labour voters has he upset?

Ramblings? No. The truth so many want to be kept quiet. And this is without his shady past.

Jesus mate, just post a link to the Express website and save us all the trouble.

shmmeee · Sep 10, 2019

djr8369 said:
The tax payer picks up the tab. They’re the future tax payers.

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Can’t see who you’re replying to but please tell me it’s someone pushing Brexit complaining about uncosted policies.

Grendel · Sep 10, 2019

shmmeee said:
Can’t see who you’re replying to but please tell me it’s someone pushing Brexit complaining about uncosted policies.

Nah it isn’t it’s someone who laughs at you for showing Brexit complexities and ridiculing nationalistic tub thumping but at the same time claiming the most nationalistic leader in the uk is the best of the bunch

skybluetony176 · Sep 10, 2019

Grendel said:
?

Higher Education Student Statistics: UK, 2016/17 - Student numbers and characteristics | HESA

So where are you getting 50% of the population in that age group is going into Higher Education. I know the numbers, I’ve quoted them as I’ve already told you from the source in the link. What I’m asking is how you’ve equated that to be 50% of the population between the ages of 18-24.

skybluetony176 · Sep 10, 2019

Grendel said:
This says 49% by the age of 30

Almost half of all young people in England go on to higher education

So not between 18-24 then.

djr8369 · Sep 10, 2019

Grendel said:
So if students aren’t trapped in a single issue - why did 50% of them vote for Lib Dem’s in 2010 and 90% of those switch allegiance to the next party to offer free education in 2015/17?

Partly because of the election campaigns of Clegg and Corbyn who both won a lot of people over at the time.

60% of over 65s voted leave so this isn’t a particularly good argument of a demographic being single issue anyway.

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skybluetony176 · Sep 10, 2019

Grendel said:
So if students aren’t trapped in a single issue - why did 50% of them vote for Lib Dem’s in 2010 and 90% of those switch allegiance to the next party to offer free education in 2015/17?

That would have been a different generation of students so you’re supposing that they’ve changed their vote.a larger percentage would have been voting for the first time given that most wouldn’t have been of voting again 2010.

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