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The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (13 Viewers)

  • Thread starter jimmyhillsfanclub
  • Start date Jun 8, 2016
Forums New posts

As of right now, how are thinking of voting? In or out

  • Remain

    Votes: 23 37.1%
  • Leave

    Votes: 35 56.5%
  • Undecided

    Votes: 3 4.8%
  • Not registered or not intention to vote

    Votes: 1 1.6%

  • Total voters
    62
  • Poll closed Jun 15, 2016.
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Ian1779

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 7, 2019
  • #41,161
Evo1883 said:
These lot are keen too, strange that

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...BMAF6BAgMEAg&usg=AOvVaw0uHyb_8E6glnKhMKAMx08h
Click to expand...

Any chance of an actual response?

Also seeing as some of our rail and energy companies are owned by ‘foreign’ countries from that pesky EU.... isn’t nationalisation the epitome of ‘taking back control’?

Or do Brexiteers only want to take back control of some things?
 

Evo1883

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 7, 2019
  • #41,162
Ian1779 said:
More non-evidenced ramblings from you - the day must end with a ‘y’ again.
Click to expand...

To be fair it holds the same evidence as saying corbyn will eliminate it
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 7, 2019
  • #41,163
clint van damme said:
I support Corbyn, doesn't bother me other people don't, doesn't bother me that a lot of people hate him. I can kind of see their point of view even though I don't agree.
But I am genuinely astonished and a little worried about the amount of shit the Tories do that they turn a blind eye to it's fucking incredible.
Click to expand...

Ferry contract anyone?
 
Reactions: clint van damme

Evo1883

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 7, 2019
  • #41,164
Ian1779 said:
Any chance of an actual response?

Also seeing as some of our rail and energy companies are owned by ‘foreign’ countries from that pesky EU.... isn’t nationalisation the epitome of ‘taking back control’?

Or do Brexiteers only want to take back control of some things?
Click to expand...
Do you hold nicola sturgeon and Scotland with the same disregard as you do leave voters.
Why do you assume voting leave means that we don't want foreign workers, contracts etc?
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 7, 2019
  • #41,165
Evo1883 said:
Doesn't matter if I think it will negatively effect me or not, I'm merely pointing out that he has similar beliefs to certain elements in society on certain things

Like I said, communists endorse him, strange if he didn't follow their vision in any way shape or form

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...Vaw3JVT7RmWQVJnXAS9LuxXgA&cshid=1567842524331
Click to expand...

The communist party endorsing him over all the alternatives doesn’t make him a communist. It just makes the alternatives further right than Corbyn.
 
Reactions: martcov

Evo1883

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 7, 2019
  • #41,166
skybluetony176 said:
The communist party endorsing him over all the alternatives doesn’t make him a communist. It just makes the alternatives further right than Corbyn.
Click to expand...

Jeremy corbyn sits closer to communism on the political spectrum than he does the centre.. That's a problem for many traditional labour voters
 
D

djr8369

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 7, 2019
  • #41,167
Evo1883 said:
Jeremy corbyn sits closer to communism on the political spectrum than he does the centre.. That's a problem for many traditional labour voters
Click to expand...

Well he doesn’t.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 7, 2019
  • #41,168
Evo1883 said:
These lot are keen too, strange that

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...BMAF6BAgMEAg&usg=AOvVaw0uHyb_8E6glnKhMKAMx08h
Click to expand...

Again (and as you link tells you) endorsing Corby doesn’t make him a Marxist, it makes him less right than the alternatives.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 7, 2019
  • #41,169
djr8369 said:
The Brexit party contains the most former communists.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Bloody Commies.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 7, 2019
  • #41,170
Evo1883 said:
Jeremy corbyn sits closer to communism on the political spectrum than he does the centre.. That's a problem for many traditional labour voters
Click to expand...

He really doesn’t.
 

Ian1779

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 7, 2019
  • #41,171
Evo1883 said:
Do you hold nicola sturgeon and Scotland with the same disregard as you do leave voters.
Why do you assume voting leave means that we don't want foreign workers, contracts etc?
Click to expand...

Firstly I don’t have disregard for leave voters - if you read what I wrote last night you would see that.

Secondly, I never made any such assumption at all, so I’m not sure how you’ve arrived at that conclusion.

Our discussion was about your ‘declaration’ that everything Corbyn does/says/represents is communist. That his policies are communist, so I asked for an example, then I queried the rationale.

Is that not what debate is?
 

Evo1883

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 7, 2019
  • #41,172
djr8369 said:
Well he doesn’t.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

He absolutely does
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 7, 2019
  • #41,173
Ian1779 said:
Any chance of an actual response?

Also seeing as some of our rail and energy companies are owned by ‘foreign’ countries from that pesky EU.... isn’t nationalisation the epitome of ‘taking back control’?

Or do Brexiteers only want to take back control of some things?
Click to expand...


The French government has a bigger stake in U.K. rail operations than the British government.
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 7, 2019
  • #41,174
Evo1883 said:
Yay Marxism and communism FTW
Click to expand...

Hmmm

Evo1883 said:
Well like is said I can't say Labour are a flat out communist party because I don't think they are obviously, it was more tongue in cheek.. However policies such as state owned rail, energy etc are all akin to policies seen in Russia back when..

It's also to no surprise that the communist party would also love to see Jeremy corbyn as leader of the country

Can i say he is a communist.. No
But he does brush close with some of their beliefs.. They endorse him
Click to expand...

At last some policies. It’s worth mentioning that Abellio and Deutsche Bahn have large sway over our rail network and they are both state owned. Germany and the Netherlands have been social democracies since the war ended, not on the path to USSR imitations. Our rail network charges increasingly high fares for an increasingly unreliable service. Having a public interest in it makes good sense.
 
Reactions: martcov, chiefdave, Sky_Blue_Dreamer and 2 others

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 7, 2019
  • #41,175
Ian1779 said:
Any chance of an actual response?

Also seeing as some of our rail and energy companies are owned by ‘foreign’ countries from that pesky EU.... isn’t nationalisation the epitome of ‘taking back control’?

Or do Brexiteers only want to take back control of some things?
Click to expand...

No it isn’t it’s state interference in private enterprise which is classic socialist dogma - it’s also an expensive process

Socialism is by its essence state over enterprise

Look at some if the other gems. Giving of shares (10%?) back to the workers. In a free market global economy this is a disaster. It will have an immediate fear factor in the FTSE as shares will be sold these companies devalued

Last week McDonnell was spluttering on about making a right to buy from landlords. Excellent way to depress the house market and create negative equity on existing properties as well as robbing private enterprise - it’s similar to the farm robbing of the Marxist Mugawbe - ended really well

Increasing corporation tax - yep that’s going to encourage more foreign investment

Higher taxation in the top 5% - state intervention in free market forces.

All these policies are regression policies of state above free market forces. They will only have negative impacts on growth and investment
 
Reactions: Evo1883

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 7, 2019
  • #41,176
Evo1883 said:
Jeremy corbyn sits closer to communism on the political spectrum than he does the centre.. That's a problem for many traditional labour voters
Click to expand...

Many if not all of Corbyn idealism and policies of the Labour Party sit closely to countries like Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Finland, New Zealand to name a few. All countries that classed as socialist and all countries to return back to an earlier point in the top ten of happiest countries in the world. The right is being driven further and further right at the moment and at the fastest pass I can remember. At this rate the right will reach communism before you can say Oooooh Jeremy Corbyn, Oooooh Jeremy Corbyn.
 
Last edited: Sep 7, 2019
Reactions: martcov and Brighton Sky Blue
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 7, 2019
  • #41,177
Grendel said:
No it isn’t it’s state interference in private enterprise which is classic socialist dogma - it’s also an expensive process

Socialism is by its essence state over enterprise

Look at some if the other gems. Giving of shares (10%?) back to the workers. In a free market global economy this is a disaster. It will have an immediate fear factor in the FTSE as shares will be sold these companies devalued

Last week McDonnell was spluttering on about making a right to buy from landlords. Excellent way to depress the house market and create negative equity on existing properties as well as robbing private enterprise - it’s similar to the farm robbing of the Marxist Mugawbe - ended really well

Increasing corporation tax - yep that’s going to encourage more foreign investment

Higher taxation in the top 5% - state intervention in free market forces.

All these policies are regression policies of state above free market forces. They will only have negative impacts on growth and investment
Click to expand...

Lol so everything is ‘state intervention’. Is that what caused the 2008 crash?
 
Reactions: martcov and skybluetony176
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 7, 2019
  • #41,178
Evo1883 said:
Doesn't matter if I think it will negatively effect me or not, I'm merely pointing out that he has similar beliefs to certain elements in society on certain things

Like I said, communists endorse him, strange if he didn't follow their vision in any way shape or form

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...Vaw3JVT7RmWQVJnXAS9LuxXgA&cshid=1567842524331
Click to expand...

Right so we now blame people for who supports them? Grow up.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 7, 2019
  • #41,179
Brighton Sky Blue said:
Lol so everything is ‘state intervention’. Is that what caused the 2008 crash?
Click to expand...

Christ are you 5 years old? All you can do is offer predictable sound bytes

Which of those policies are not socialist regression strategies and how do they pioneer growth and free enterprise
 
Reactions: The Reverend Skyblue

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 7, 2019
  • #41,180
Brighton Sky Blue said:
Grow up.
Click to expand...

Ironic
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 7, 2019
  • #41,181
Grendel said:
No it isn’t it’s state interference in private enterprise which is classic socialist dogma - it’s also an expensive process

Socialism is by its essence state over enterprise

Look at some if the other gems. Giving of shares (10%?) back to the workers. In a free market global economy this is a disaster. It will have an immediate fear factor in the FTSE as shares will be sold these companies devalued

Last week McDonnell was spluttering on about making a right to buy from landlords. Excellent way to depress the house market and create negative equity on existing properties as well as robbing private enterprise - it’s similar to the farm robbing of the Marxist Mugawbe - ended really well

Increasing corporation tax - yep that’s going to encourage more foreign investment

Higher taxation in the top 5% - state intervention in free market forces.

All these policies are regression policies of state above free market forces. They will only have negative impacts on growth and investment
Click to expand...

Yet socialist countries boom, punch beyond their weight (thinking especially of Scandinavian countries here), have a good standard of living and social care and rank among the happiest countries to live in. How do you explain that away?

I think you just hate this country and despise the thought of it emulating countries that regularly rank as the best places to live.

By the way. The longer Trump has been in power the further the US has slipped down the rankings. You favour policies of abject misery for the residents of this country. Why do you hate this country so much?
 
Last edited: Sep 7, 2019

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 7, 2019
  • #41,182
Brighton Sky Blue said:
Lol so everything is ‘state intervention’. Is that what caused the 2008 crash?
Click to expand...

It was the withdrawal of “nanny” states that caused that, especially true in America under “W”.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 7, 2019
  • #41,183
Grendel said:
Christ are you 5 years old? All you can do is offer predictable sound bytes

Which of those policies are not socialist regression strategies and how do they pioneer growth and free enterprise
Click to expand...

It was a sound bite response to your sound bites. The irony.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 7, 2019
  • #41,184
Breaking the law, breaking the law...

MPs willing to go to court to enforce Brexit delay
 

Ian1779

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 7, 2019
  • #41,185
Grendel said:
No it isn’t it’s state interference in private enterprise which is classic socialist dogma - it’s also an expensive process

Socialism is by its essence state over enterprise

Look at some if the other gems. Giving of shares (10%?) back to the workers. In a free market global economy this is a disaster. It will have an immediate fear factor in the FTSE as shares will be sold these companies devalued

Last week McDonnell was spluttering on about making a right to buy from landlords. Excellent way to depress the house market and create negative equity on existing properties as well as robbing private enterprise - it’s similar to the farm robbing of the Marxist Mugawbe - ended really well

Increasing corporation tax - yep that’s going to encourage more foreign investment

Higher taxation in the top 5% - state intervention in free market forces.

All these policies are regression policies of state above free market forces. They will only have negative impacts on growth and investment
Click to expand...
And you have the nerve to call other people out over sound bites.

Pretty sure you’re only 2 posts away from mentioning Venezuela.... that country you gave a fuck about for 5 minutes.
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Sep 7, 2019
  • #41,186
clint van damme said:
Why would any working class person be against at least the first 3?
Click to expand...
Why would any person be against them?
 
Reactions: clint van damme

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 7, 2019
  • #41,187
skybluetony176 said:
Yet socialist countries boom, punch beyond their weight (thinking especially of Scandinavian countries here), have a good standard of living and social care and rank among the happiest countries to live in. How do you explain that away?

I think you just hate this country and despise the thought of it emulating countries that regularly rank as the best places to live.

By the way. The longer Trump has been in power the further the US has slipped down the rankings. You favour policies of abject misery for the residents of this country. Why do you hate this country so much?
Click to expand...

So this a rating purely on political ideology and economic factors?
 

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 7, 2019
  • #41,188
skybluetony176 said:
Ferry contract anyone?
Click to expand...

The list is pretty much endless!
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 7, 2019
  • #41,189
Grendel said:
So this a rating purely on political ideology and economic factors?
Click to expand...

No. This is rating of the happiness of the people who live in these countries. They happen to also largely be governed by the policies you like to class in catastrophic terms for this country should we vote to go down that route. If catastrophe makes a nation happy I say bring it on. You favour politics more akin to Trump than Corbyn yet the USA is a country that slips further and further down the rankings of the happiest countries in the world under his presidency. Why would you want abject misery for your country? Why?
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 7, 2019
  • #41,190
clint van damme said:
The list is pretty much endless!
Click to expand...

The recent £100M advertising campaign asking for businesses to be ready for something that the government can’t or won’t quantify. You’d have to say won’t going by the reluctance to release important documents such as yellow hammer.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 7, 2019
  • #41,191
skybluetony176 said:
No. This is rating of the happiness of the people who live in these countries. They happen to also largely be governed by the policies you like to class in catastrophic terms for this country should we vote to go down that route. If catastrophe makes a nation happy I say bring it on. You favour politics more akin to Trump than Corbyn yet the USA is a country that slips further and further down the rankings of the happiest countries in the world under his presidency. Why would you want abject misery for your country? Why?
Click to expand...

Do any of them have high industrialisation?
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 7, 2019
  • #41,192
Grendel said:
Do any of them have high industrialisation?
Click to expand...

Not sure what bearing that has on it but my god you’re ignorant to the real world. It’s a UN report published annually, it’s called the world happiness report. Go and look for yourself, I’m sure it’s almost certainly on your usual source for information Wikipedia.

(edit) While you’re at it look at the IHDI and GPI rankings by country. On the latter the US is practically a rogue state. The brand of politics you buy into does nothing to bring happiness and stability to this country and on the world stage does nothing to promote happiness, stability and world peace. Why on earth would you willingly subscribe to a doctrine that does nothing to improve your life, wellbeing, happiness, country or the world you live in? Why?
 
Last edited: Sep 7, 2019

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 7, 2019
  • #41,193
Grendel said:
No it isn’t it’s state interference in private enterprise which is classic socialist dogma - it’s also an expensive process

Socialism is by its essence state over enterprise

Look at some if the other gems. Giving of shares (10%?) back to the workers. In a free market global economy this is a disaster. It will have an immediate fear factor in the FTSE as shares will be sold these companies devalued
Click to expand...

How terrible. Wanting workers to have some ownership of the companies they work hard for and so getting more reward for it. Doesn't this encourage hard work, efficiency and professionalism from the workers because they've got a financial stake in how the company does? Resulting in improved company performance and long term increases in the share price and therefore FTSE?

As opposed to those current shareholders whose whole effort for the company involves a call to their broker to buy the shares.

Companies like John Lewis/Waitrose are co-ops. And FYI by far the biggest reason of poor performance and lost value/failure of companies is at board/CEO level with poor decision making and investment. The same people who are paid the most and are given the highest pay rises, decided by the shareholders.

Grendel said:
Last week McDonnell was spluttering on about making a right to buy from landlords. Excellent way to depress the house market and create negative equity on existing properties as well as robbing private enterprise - it’s similar to the farm robbing of the Marxist Mugawbe - ended really well
Click to expand...

Depress the housing market, or set it at a sensible level enabling people to have security of the shelter over their heads? Not artificially inflated by landlords whose sole aim is to profit and massively overcharge rent so they make money off the deal. Or do you think a return to fuedalism would be a good thing, because that is the ultimate destination of that model - a handful of people owning everything while everyone else is a peasant paying to work someone elses land.

Have you ever bought a car on finance? That's got negative equity the second you sign the contract. Besides if all properties are now devalued your new home would cost you less anyway, so it's swings and roundabouts.

Plus it's nothing like farm robbing. 'Right to buy' is hardly storming the house and killing the current owner (which is actually far more a far-right, market-driven, dog-eat-dog thing to do) - it's BUYING it from the owner. It's no different to the law on shares that once you buy 30% of a company you have to make an offer for the remaining shares.

Grendel said:
Increasing corporation tax - yep that’s going to encourage more foreign investment
Click to expand...

I thought we wanted to take back control?

Grendel said:
Higher taxation in the top 5% - state intervention in free market forces.

All these policies are regression policies of state above free market forces. They will only have negative impacts on growth and investment
Click to expand...

The highest earners tend to have much lower effective tax rates than most, even if their actual contributions are higher because so much is tied up in trusts, offshore etc. Of course we could remove the state intervention. Why don't we just all steal stuff from each other or take a rich person hostage and force them to sign over all their money and possessions? Because the STATE says we can't and the STATE will punish you if you do. It's state intervention that allows the market running the way it does - take it away and you've got anarchy and a free-for-all.
 
Reactions: djr8369

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 7, 2019
  • #41,194
Evo1883 said:
He absolutely does
Click to expand...
I'm a traditional labour court voter. None of his policies are anything like communism. They are pretty standard social democrat policies of the sort you find all over Europe
 
Reactions: djr8369 and Brighton Sky Blue
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Sep 7, 2019
  • #41,195
Told you, it's all Corbyn's fault the mess we're in now...
 
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