I rest my case
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Successive governments seem to have failed this country from the 1970's. Especially since the career politicians made their appearance on the scene. I've lived through the good and bad in all of them..........but do agree in view of the last election that cross party consensus should be applied now.It's not bias - it's seeing a group of individuals leading us down a path that benefits very few people.
Leaving the EU is the biggest thing this country has done in the last 50 years. For the sake of everyone it should be led up with cross party consensus and the negotiating team should be made up to represent this - not just be sycophants from a political party that have failed the significant majority of the British public for the last 7 years.
It's not bias - it's seeing a group of individuals leading us down a path that benefits very few people.
No you're quite right no one has said it but your words seem to suggest a hate towards the U.K. Just my opinion. Maybe it's a hate towards the tories vented in another way.
440m is a very comfortable minority on a global scale. The EU bloc put restrictions on trading outside of the bloc - in itself that creates disparity with other nations & becomes protectionist, discriminative & divisive...the sort of thing that has led to terrorism & wars historicallyTheir population is 440 million. I think we need them more than they need us. Whether or not Britain is more attractive now, this is a one off decision and may affect our development for generations. We have to consider future generations.
440m is a very comfortable minority on a global scale. The EU bloc put restrictions on trading outside of the bloc - in itself that creates disparity with other nations & becomes protectionist, discriminative & divisive...the sort of thing that has led to terrorism & wars historically
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We cannot be sure that is the reason there have been no wars whatsoever. That's just an opinion of some 'experts'...like the ones that predicted landslide election victories & much more besides.On the other hand.... there are no wars in Europe and won't be as long as we trade as a Group.
Fruit and veg farmers facing migrant labour shortages - BBC News
I'm sure there's hordes of unemployed UK workers who haven't been able to get a job because of the imigrunts ready in the wings to fill the void.
We cannot be sure that is the reason there have been no wars whatsoever. That's just an opinion of some 'experts'...like the ones that predicted landslide election victories & much more besides.
Personally I would put it down more to the fact that virtually every nation has more potent weaponry (tends to induce reticence to attack) & NATO.
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Successive governments seem to have failed this country from the 1970's. Especially since the career politicians made their appearance on the scene. I've lived through the good and bad in all of them..........but do agree in view of the last election that cross party consensus should be applied now.
True perhaps...but they are given a specific remit. If they fail to produce...it looks bad on their CV too...so they had best make hay while the sun shines. Success breeds success as they will well know
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Where did mick come in?I voted leave, however the "close the borders" argument was not on my agenda.....I voted against the banksters, the corporates & multi-nationals, the TTIP & the general fucked up EU/IMF cartel that has proved to be failed, undemocratic & corrupted.......
Now I'll probably regret posting back in this thread as I have every intention of returning to my internet avoidance, but I just thought I'd give you the following snapshot for discussion:
Dave was my local delivery driver for one of the large international courier firms. He lived in Warrington, He worked out of the South Liverpool depot & I saw him for deliveries & collections several times a week.
Daves employers re-wrote his T&C's to include Saturday working with no real or acceptable recompense. Mick wasn't happy. Mick told me he refused to sign them. I've not seen Mick since.
Dimitri is my new delivery driver. He is from Bulgaria. He lives in a HMO in Toxteth with 8 other Bulgarians & Romanians. Dimitri is a qualified Architect but Dimitri now drives a van. One of Dimitris housemates is a qualified Engineer but he also drives a van.
How is the above beneficial for Dave, Bulgaria or Romania?
Where did mick come in?
The media are working on promoting the pro immigrant agenda, there was a farmer on this morning saying his (largely Bulgarian/Romanian) workers were skilled & they were paid £8.50/hr on average, on further questioning it turned out they had to pay most of that wage on the accommodation provided for them, so they made under £2/hr overall.
Would you pick fruit and veg for very low pay? No? We have a problem | Peter Fleming
Revealed: Scandal of Britain's fruit-farm workers
One thing that is not mentioned is that the % of income spent on food has steadily fallen, in the 60's a working family might have to spend 20% of income on food, now it is more like 8-9%, and I think there is little doubt we eat more, we must be we are getting fatter & more sedentary.
I voted leave, however the "close the borders" argument was not on my agenda.....I voted against the banksters, the corporates & multi-nationals, the TTIP & the general fucked up EU/IMF cartel that has proved to be failed, undemocratic & corrupted.......
Now I'll probably regret posting back in this thread as I have every intention of returning to my internet avoidance, but I just thought I'd give you the following snapshot for discussion:
Dave was my local delivery driver for one of the large international courier firms. He lived in Warrington, He worked out of the South Liverpool depot & I saw him for deliveries & collections several times a week.
Daves employers re-wrote his T&C's to include Saturday working with no real or acceptable recompense. Dave wasn't happy. Dave told me he refused to sign them. I've not seen Dave since.
Dimitri is my new delivery driver. He is from Bulgaria. He lives in a HMO in Toxteth with 8 other Bulgarians & Romanians. Dimitri is a qualified Architect but Dimitri now drives a van. One of Dimitris housemates is a qualified Engineer but he also drives a van.
How is the above beneficial for Dave, Bulgaria or Romania?
You need to ask the "large international courier firm" if they give a fuck, to be honest.
The landslide predictions were accurate mostly
We aren't talking about Cameron & Osborne though are we? The Ministers are just the mouthpieces for the civil servants that piece the desired outcomes & strategy together...& you & I will be last to know what any of that really isFuck me, talk about talking a lot and saying nothing.
Is this where we are now? Governance by motivational poster? "Success breeds success" FFS.
And you might want to check out how the likes of Cameron and Osbourne are doing int he private sector with their "bad" CVs. I don't think it's much of a deterrent.
One of the clients of the company I work for is a chap who is worth hundreds of millions personally and his companies revenues are measure in billions. The majority of his workforce is Eastern Europeans on minimum wage and have accommodation costs deducted. The accommodation they are in is appalling and most of the locations are in the middle of nowhere so they're pretty much stuck on site.there was a farmer on this morning saying his (largely Bulgarian/Romanian) workers were skilled & they were paid £8.50/hr on average, on further questioning it turned out they had to pay most of that wage on the accommodation provided for them, so they made under £2/hr overall.
This is the key isn't it. Dave would still be doing the job if his employer wasn't treating him like shit. Therefore there would be no jobs for anyone coming in from Bulgaria or Romania.Dave was my local delivery driver for one of the large international courier firms. He lived in Warrington, He worked out of the South Liverpool depot & I saw him for deliveries & collections several times a week.
Daves employers re-wrote his T&C's to include Saturday working with no real or acceptable recompense. Dave wasn't happy. Dave told me he refused to sign them. I've not seen Dave since.
Dimitri is my new delivery driver. He is from Bulgaria. He lives in a HMO in Toxteth with 8 other Bulgarians & Romanians. Dimitri is a qualified Architect but Dimitri now drives a van. One of Dimitris housemates is a qualified Engineer but he also drives a van.
How is the above beneficial for Dave, Bulgaria or Romania?
Lucky bastard.Today I started at 7:30pm and got home at 8pm
Just making sure you're paying attention :angelic:Lucky bastard.
We cannot be sure that is the reason there have been no wars whatsoever. That's just an opinion of some 'experts'...like the ones that predicted landslide election victories & much more besides.
Personally I would put it down more to the fact that virtually every nation has more potent weaponry (tends to induce reticence to attack) & NATO.
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So why do we have a hung parliament???
How come we are Brexit-ing?
How did Trump win?
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Lucky bastard.
I am self employed and am still here at midnight our time. I am of course a capitalist swine exploiting my workers who have a shift system and are sitting at home relaxing.
More like because you post on here too much.
Yes but do you do well martcov?My staff spend all their time sending whatsapps. I would rather look in here....and that's saying something..;-)
Yes but do you do well martcov?
Likewise, I'm self employed as are most across the exhibition industry, but it's fake really as many work at the same outfit year round.Sometimes... but there is no guarantee...
This is true, so is this as a result of the Common agricultural policy or exploitation?The media are working on promoting the pro immigrant agenda, there was a farmer on this morning saying his (largely Bulgarian/Romanian) workers were skilled & they were paid £8.50/hr on average, on further questioning it turned out they had to pay most of that wage on the accommodation provided for them, so they made under £2/hr overall.
Would you pick fruit and veg for very low pay? No? We have a problem | Peter Fleming
Revealed: Scandal of Britain's fruit-farm workers
One thing that is not mentioned is that the % of income spent on food has steadily fallen, in the 60's a working family might have to spend 20% of income on food, now it is more like 8-9%, and I think there is little doubt we eat more, we must be we are getting fatter & more sedentary.
So after all that was said in the Brexit campaign net EU migration for the UK is 133k during 2016, not a huge figure. Immigration was a central pillar of the Leave campaign argument, although it was never clear which figure they were talking about - total, net, EU, Non EU etc. I would think that this net 133k figure will fall following Brexit as the UK becomes less attractive and it is harder for UK citizens to settle in the EU. So was/is EU migration the problem it was made out to be? If for example things like NHS, farming etc rely on this migration because UK citizens, for whatever reason, will not or are not available to do the work, have we created potentially large & expensive economic problems for very little gain? Both NHS & Farming have both highlighted large shortages in human resources already
You could argue that a large proportion of people from EU come here to work and therefore contribute to our economy, is the reverse true or is our emigration more to do with retirement and the social burden associated with it?
May has offered guaranteed rights for those here 5 years or more. So by the actual Brexit anyone living here since March 2014 is not at risk if the proposal or similar is accepted. UK might become less attractive for EU citizens going forward and EU immigration may well fall, but so will emigration from the UK as EU countries become less attractive or so easily available. If the premise that we "export" retirement holds does it follow that we could have created a situation where a growing elderly population puts pressure on the services but the services do not have the human resource to supply because there is no longer freedom of movement
Wasn't the bigger migration "problem" non EU related in any case? Brexit does not deal with that. Do we gain or lose by the free movement of EU labour and will that be the case after 2019?
Just thoughts really
Migration figures Migration Watch UK | Statistics-net-migration-statistics
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