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The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (15 Viewers)

  • Thread starter jimmyhillsfanclub
  • Start date Jun 8, 2016
Forums New posts

As of right now, how are thinking of voting? In or out

  • Remain

    Votes: 23 37.1%
  • Leave

    Votes: 35 56.5%
  • Undecided

    Votes: 3 4.8%
  • Not registered or not intention to vote

    Votes: 1 1.6%

  • Total voters
    62
  • Poll closed Jun 15, 2016.
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M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • May 8, 2017
  • #3,921
Grendel said:
The whole tenure of the article is that right wing organisations manipulate social media outlets to put across their message. Her key obsession is Google and Facebook and she tries to argue these forces control the minds of people and prevents them from independent thought

She cites Trump, Brexit and oddly Holocaust denial.

She omits to mention certain facts like for example regarding Trump - Clinton spent twice as much on a media campaign as he did. What do you think she did with the money? Spend it on petrol pump advertising?

She also conveniently overlooks the Pro EU campaign which included a £9 million taxpayer funded brochure of "facts" none of which have materialised.

The problem, I'm afraid, is she misses the point. Trump won, Brexit happened not because of manipulation but the voters who were not influenced by anything and did not turn out to vote. It is why Clinton lost for sure. People like her cannot understand or accept that "dumb" uneducated people have a view and an opinion that dares to differ from an elitist liberal media

Her articles on holocaust denial is just bizarre. She pretty much says a lot of people are stupid and just buy theories they see in manipulated media. She fails to see the irony that she is doing exactly the same in her biased, liberal, condescending tripe
Click to expand...

No she doesn't say anything of the sort. She says a group of billionaires- including a successful hedge fund owner/ manager ( not ours. I used the word successful), who all know each other - and Farage - have access to enormous amounts of information on people like us.

They can use this information to send fake news to anyone they choose. They choose people in, say, swing states according to what they browse and if they think they can appeal to these people's emotions. This doesn't mean the victims are poor, or even uneducated or stupid, just that they could be susceptible to having their emotions played with. They then feed the selected victims bullshit stories just before the election, that cannot be reputed in such a short time, to raise enough doubts about the opposing candidate to cause the victims to either change their preference or not vote at all.

The fact that with Trump and Brexit the voters defied the polls at the last minute, hints that something may have influenced a small, but significant percentage of them.

Even more so when you see that Hilary actually won the election by 3 million votes, but lost the electoral college.

Trump profited enormously from free advertising by saying controversial things, and by being a major reality star and household name before he even ran. That and Bannon and co's information and direct targeting meant that Trump's fewer dollars were better spent.

I don't know if all the facts in the brochure will not occur after Brexit has happened.

The elites are not just what you call the liberal media. They include Steve Bannon, Donald Trump, Mercer, Zuckerberg, Tillerson, and all the cronies in the Trump swamp. The finger you are pointing is directed at MSM and the EU ( Juncker being the targeted boo-man by many people as a convenient scape goat to justify the self-harm done by Brexit ), whilst you scoff at a journalist who is pointing out some very worrying facts. The billionaires have won in the USA and in the U.K..

If there is a resistance movement, count me in.
 
Reactions: Sick Boy

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • May 8, 2017
  • #3,922
ccfc92 said:
Overt. Not over.
Click to expand...

Oops. My bad.
 
Reactions: ccfc92

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • May 9, 2017
  • #3,923
ccfc92 said:
I'd agree with this. Society has gone so left wing, any conservative actions appear right wing.

I don't understand why people have to be labelled personally.
Click to expand...

I've read some shit on these message boards, (and posted a fair bit as well if I'm honest), but this takes the fuckin' biscuit!!
 
Reactions: Sick Boy, wingy, fernandopartridge and 5 others

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • May 9, 2017
  • #3,924
Sick Boy said:
Biggest Brexit donor urges May to guarantee rights of EU nationals

Finally some common sense, let's hope that the vile May actually listens. Her refusal to take students out of the immigration figures is bizarre as well. Surely the country should be looking to attract talent rather than putting it off?
Click to expand...

and when she went to India to try and cosy up to them regarding post Brexit trade deals one of their first conditions was that it needs to be easier for Indian nationals to gain places at UK universities.
She's going to have to give somewhere.
 
Reactions: Sick Boy and martcov

ccfc92

Well-Known Member
  • May 9, 2017
  • #3,925
clint van damme said:
I've read some shit on these message boards, (and posted a fair bit as well if I'm honest), but this takes the fuckin' biscuit!!
Click to expand...

You're entitled to your opinion, but don't quote half my post to take it out of context.
 
Last edited: May 9, 2017

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • May 9, 2017
  • #3,926
ccfc92 said:
You're entitled to your opinion, but don't quote half my post to take it out of context.
Click to expand...

I quoted your whole post, I just highlighted in bold the relevant bit which the rest of your post had no bearing on. You made a statement, which in my opinion was so far wide of the mark it could play up front for us.
 
Reactions: Sick Boy and wingy

ccfc92

Well-Known Member
  • May 9, 2017
  • #3,927
clint van damme said:
I quoted your whole post, I just highlighted in bold the relevant bit which the rest of your post had no bearing on. You made a statement, which in my opinion was so far wide of the mark it could play up front for us.
Click to expand...

Care to explain why you think that?
 

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • May 9, 2017
  • #3,928
quite simple, we live in an increasingly greedy, selfish society where the rich are out to grab every last penny for themselves. Everything has a price except the lives of societies most vulnerable who are treated appallingly. The evidence is all around for everyone to see, the cuts to services hitting the people who need them most the defunding of the NHS in order to introduce an American style insurance based health service by stealth.
Empathy and charity have become dirty words. How you think this country has become more left wing is beyond me.
 
Reactions: Monners, Sick Boy, RegTheDonk and 5 others

ccfc92

Well-Known Member
  • May 9, 2017
  • #3,929
clint van damme said:
quite simple, we live in an increasingly greedy, selfish society where the rich are out to grab every last penny for themselves. Everything has a price except the lives of societies most vulnerable who are treated appallingly. The evidence is all around for everyone to see, the cuts to services hitting the people who need them most the defunding of the NHS in order to introduce an American style insurance based health service by stealth.
Empathy and charity have become dirty words. How you think this country has become more left wing is beyond me.
Click to expand...

I agree, but did you read my following posts after the one you originally quoted?
 

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • May 9, 2017
  • #3,930
ccfc92 said:
I agree, but did you read my following posts after the one you originally quoted?
Click to expand...

No mate, it's a big ol' thread! I'll try and catch up with the rest later.
 
Reactions: ccfc92

Earlsdon_Skyblue1

Well-Known Member
  • May 9, 2017
  • #3,931
My personal view point is that society has generally moved further left wing as generations of young people with growing good intentions develop and grow up. People want to do the right thing, but unfortunately at this time a lot of them are also very spoilt and have never been told 'no' in their lives. Look at the constant rioting of left wing groups at the moment when they haven't got their way. That isn't productive and certainly isn't peaceful and tolerant is it? That's 'we are tolerant only if you agree with us'. The other issue with this is naivety that a lot of people have because they haven't lived in the real world enough. Some of the left wing and liberal ideologies are really good on paper, but in reality are utter nonsense.

That being said, political correctness is at an all time high and with the intolerant tolerant bashing you down for even trying to have a healthy debate on a lot of things, speaking your mind is extremely difficult. I will definitely agree that has been a more recent shift back towards the right (Le Pen, Wilders etc), and I think a lot of this is due to a combination of failing left wing policies, the art of freedom of speech dying, and because Islamic Terrorism and crime in general from migrants is a really current, and in a lot of people's eye's, big problem. They don't feel they have the means to express their opinion reasonably on this without being shot down, so quietly go to the ballot box.

Of course this does give a lot of racists and hateful people a platform and it does encourage extremism from right wing groups, however this is getting confused with your average Joe who does also just have good intentions. On this subject though, I think our society is considerably less at danger from right wing groups than Islamic Terrorism. However, my opinion is that they are both made up of people that are not fit to walk the planet.

With Brexit I think a lot of people confuse the EU with Europe itself. I am really pro Europe but pretty anti-EU. The whole thing does need reform, and if they weren't prepared to listen to our concerns then I don't think they can really complain when as a country we say we want to leave. Not that they are 100% to blame for our exit, but if they EU were doing a better job then this wouldn't have happened.

I am confident we have a bright future and I believe Brexit can work. Personally I am not as concerned as some because I believe the west is too civilised for it not to. I know some people on here live abroad and are feeling a bit exposed and worried about what might happen, and I get that. My other half is Slovak and if it did all go wrong I would have a lot more to lose than most people here myself. That being said, if I did think there was any realistic chance the whole thing would be a disaster I would have never voted to leave.
 
Reactions: Kingokings204 and ccfc92
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • May 9, 2017
  • #3,932
Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
My personal view point is that society has generally moved further left wing as generations of young people with growing good intentions develop and grow up. People want to do the right thing, but unfortunately at this time a lot of them are also very spoilt and have never been told 'no' in their lives. Look at the constant rioting of left wing groups at the moment when they haven't got their way. That isn't productive and certainly isn't peaceful and tolerant is it? That's 'we are tolerant only if you agree with us'. The other issue with this is naivety that a lot of people have because they haven't lived in the real world enough. Some of the left wing and liberal ideologies are really good on paper, but in reality are utter nonsense.

That being said, political correctness is at an all time high and with the intolerant tolerant bashing you down for even trying to have a healthy debate on a lot of things, speaking your mind is extremely difficult. I will definitely agree that has been a more recent shift back towards the right (Le Pen, Wilders etc), and I think a lot of this is due to a combination of failing left wing policies, the art of freedom of speech dying, and because Islamic Terrorism and crime in general from migrants is a really current, and in a lot of people's eye's, big problem. They don't feel they have the means to express their opinion reasonably on this without being shot down, so quietly go to the ballot box.

Of course this does give a lot of racists and hateful people a platform and it does encourage extremism from right wing groups, however this is getting confused with your average Joe who does also just have good intentions. On this subject though, I think our society is considerably less at danger from right wing groups than Islamic Terrorism. However, my opinion is that they are both made up of people that are not fit to walk the planet.

With Brexit I think a lot of people confuse the EU with Europe itself. I am really pro Europe but pretty anti-EU. The whole thing does need reform, and if they weren't prepared to listen to our concerns then I don't think they can really complain when as a country we say we want to leave. Not that they are 100% to blame for our exit, but if they EU were doing a better job then this wouldn't have happened.

I am confident we have a bright future and I believe Brexit can work. Personally I am not as concerned as some because I believe the west is too civilised for it not to. I know some people on here live abroad and are feeling a bit exposed and worried about what might happen, and I get that. My other half is Slovak and if it did all go wrong I would have a lot more to lose than most people here myself. That being said, if I did think there was any realistic chance the whole thing would be a disaster I would have never voted to leave.
Click to expand...

I don't totally disagree with everything there. I don't consider myself as left wing, or rather didn't used to. Society has jumped to the right and now I am considered left wing because I believe in what, in pre Trump and Brexit times, were called western values.

You talk about left wing crime, but here in Germany it is dwarfed by right wing crime- e.g. attacking refugees, burning refugee homes, desecrating Jewish graves...

Islamic terrorism is bad, but we have had terrorism before, especially in the 70s. The difference is that the right wing is better at using social media.... the left wing running around wearing hoods and black clothes whilst screaming and attacking demonstrators or people wishing to hear an alternative view , only adds to the fear of normal people and pushes them towards the right who promise law and order and protection- the ways of providing this can clash with the old school western values that people such as myself believe in.

A few very rich people on the right have worked out how to use information harvested from our web use.

I think Brexit and Trump have opened Pandora's Box....people who would have been outsiders are now in the forefront. You only have to look at Trump and Bannon to see what is happening to western values... lies, warmongering, threats, Muslim bans... they don't belong in my world... as militant Islam doesn't...

Brexit has let a lot of nasty bastards have their say - they are a small minority of Brexit voters, but they have turned their backs on the BNP and other scallywag parties to join UKIP ( not all UKIP voters ) and now tactically they are aligned with the Tories. They are enjoying life under the Brexit banner with millions of decent people and probably think they have become they have become respectable at last...
 
Reactions: Sick Boy, ccfc92 and Earlsdon_Skyblue1

Earlsdon_Skyblue1

Well-Known Member
  • May 9, 2017
  • #3,933
martcov said:
I don't totally disagree with everything there. I don't consider myself as left wing, or rather didn't used to. Society has jumped to the right and now I am considered left wing because I believe in what, in pre Trump and Brexit times, were called western values.

You talk about left wing crime, but here in Germany it is dwarfed by right wing crime- e.g. attacking refugees, burning refugee homes, desecrating Jewish graves...

Islamic terrorism is bad, but we have had terrorism before, especially in the 70s. The difference is that the right wing is better at using social media.... the left wing running around wearing hoods and black clothes whilst screaming and attacking demonstrators or people wishing to hear an alternative view , only adds to the fear of normal people and pushes them towards the right who promise law and order and protection- the ways of providing this can clash with the old school western values that people such as myself believe in.

A few very rich people on the right have worked out how to use information harvested from our web use.

I think Brexit and Trump have opened Pandora's Box....people who would have been outsiders are now in the forefront. You only have to look at Trump and Bannon to see what is happening to western values... lies, warmongering, threats, Muslim bans... they don't belong in my world... as militant Islam doesn't...

Brexit has let a lot of nasty bastards have their say - they are a small minority of Brexit voters, but they have turned their backs on the BNP and other scallywag parties to join UKIP ( not all UKIP voters ) and now tactically they are aligned with the Tories. They are enjoying life under the Brexit banner with millions of decent people and probably think they have become they have become respectable at last...
Click to expand...

That's a well thought out response, thanks for sharing.

I definitely agree with a lot of what you've said, perhaps it's more my generation I feel is more left wing at the moment. Certainly they are a lot more vocal to my day to day surroundings and exposure. In terms of Brexit, I think (generally speaking) more left wing people probably did vote remain, and more right wing people probably did vote leave. I was very much on the fence but got really harassed (quite nastily) by a lot of people around me just for suggesting we should talk about the option of a leave vote. With the media if I see a story I'll normally cross check it about three times with different sources, they all have their own agenda and it's a fucking nightmare.

I do know that there are crimes committed in Germany towards refugees and that isn't acceptable. Certainly from what I have encountered being in Germany I have witnessed it very much the opposite way around, but as you live there I will take your word for what I haven't seen. Ultimately I think a lot of the people who have been classed as refugees should not have qualified whatsoever, and this only adds to the issues. Any genuine refugee should have a roof over their head, and you can tell a lot of them apart because they are often the ones that will grab the chance of asylum with both hands and do their best to put something back into the country that has taken them in. Sadly there is a lot of people who have quite the opposite attitude and they are causing a hell of a lot of issues.

Most political parties in the UK at the moment are in a mess, but when she was first appointed I did think May was not a terrible choice. Brexit is inevitable and by having someone who was a remain voter herself, should make it so that she can try to make as many people happy as possible. I don't think it's necessarily been the case so far though, and she certainly didn't need to say that shit about 'Bloody difficult woman'. She needs to be mature and not stoop to that level if Brexit is going to have any success.
 
Reactions: Sick Boy, ccfc92 and martcov

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • May 9, 2017
  • #3,934
Society isn't more left wing in respect of belief in left wing economics. It is in respect of belief about equality.

Sent from my D6603 using Tapatalk
 

dancers lance

Well-Known Member
  • May 10, 2017
  • #3,935
Liquid Gold said:
Ha, pathetic. 'We won the war' is the argument of the idiot.
Click to expand...
What war?
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • May 10, 2017
  • #3,936
fernandopartridge said:
Society isn't more left wing in respect of belief in left wing economics. It is in respect of belief about equality.

Sent from my D6603 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

In my opinion we have seen a shift towards on this over the last 5 years back to the right. On top of that, Britain is one of the most unequal societies in the developed world.
 
Reactions: martcov

Liquid Gold

Well-Known Member
  • May 10, 2017
  • #3,937
Captain Dart said:
Le Pan Sr polled 17.6%, his Daughter 34.5%,, she is 49 I would guess she will have another go next time.
After which there is Marion Maréchal-Le Pen, Marine Le Pen's niece who at 28 is already a Deputy in Vacluse, (Provence-Alpes-Côte d'Azur )
Click to expand...

Marion Maréchal-Le Pen, once pegged as future Front National leader, 'quits politics'

lol
 
Reactions: Sick Boy
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • May 10, 2017
  • #3,938
Liquid Gold said:
Marion Maréchal-Le Pen, once pegged as future Front National leader, 'quits politics'

lol
Click to expand...

Exactly
 

Earlsdon_Skyblue1

Well-Known Member
  • May 10, 2017
  • #3,939
I'd love to hate fuck Marion Le Pen so bad.
 

Liquid Gold

Well-Known Member
  • May 10, 2017
  • #3,940
Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
I'd love to hate fuck Marion Le Pen so bad.
Click to expand...
I know those feels man. Same with Palin.

 
Reactions: Earlsdon_Skyblue1 and martcov

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • May 10, 2017
  • #3,941
Well this thread has taken a disturbing turn! But our of kindness I'd take one for the team and have a go with Ivanka.
 
Reactions: Sick Boy, Earlsdon_Skyblue1 and martcov
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • May 10, 2017
  • #3,942
Any news on Farage regarding his best mate Donald? Not so long ago he was on a stage with Donald talking about democracy and taking our country back, and then back in London wearing a Make America Great Again Hat. Are we to believe that Trump is on our side in taking our country back? Is his example the way to go?

Has Farage disowned him now that he is dismantling democracy in the USA? Or are they still mates?
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • May 10, 2017
  • #3,943
martcov said:
Has Farage disowned him now that he is dismantling democracy in the USA?
Click to expand...
Head of the FBI fired while investigating Trumps ties to Russia. Echoes of when Nixon fired Cox which led to Watergate.

And now a reporter has been arrested for asking questions on healthcare reforms.

How much more before Trump is impeached.
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • May 10, 2017
  • #3,944
Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
I'd love to hate fuck Marion Le Pen so bad.
Click to expand...

You certainly are one for coming up with memorable quotes.

The only ever time I was 'seeing' a Tory she would end up with a few bumps on her head.
 
Reactions: Earlsdon_Skyblue1

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • May 10, 2017
  • #3,945
martcov said:
Any news on Farage regarding his best mate Donald? Not so long ago he was on a stage with Donald talking about democracy and taking our country back, and then back in London wearing a Make America Great Again Hat. Are we to believe that Trump is on our side in taking our country back? Is his example the way to go?

Has Farage disowned him now that he is dismantling democracy in the USA? Or are they still mates?
Click to expand...

The less we hear from Farage the better!
 
K

Kingokings204

Well-Known Member
  • May 10, 2017
  • #3,946
Sick Boy said:
The less we hear from Farage the better!
Click to expand...

LBC 7pm Monday to Thursday every week. The nigel farage show.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • May 10, 2017
  • #3,947
Kingokings204 said:
LBC 7pm Monday to Thursday every week. The nigel farage show.
Click to expand...

No thanks.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • May 10, 2017
  • #3,948
chiefdave said:
Head of the FBI fired while investigating Trumps ties to Russia. Echoes of when Nixon fired Cox which led to Watergate.

And now a reporter has been arrested for asking questions on healthcare reforms.

How much more before Trump is impeached.
Click to expand...

Either that, or something really bad happens and Trump makes a bid for more power - to protect America from terrorism. All been done before. Hitler worked with von Pappen. Von Pappen thought he could control him.... then came the Reichstag fire and the enabling act to allow the government to take contend protect the people .....and that was it for democracy...

Bannon is well aware of the script and putting Sessions in - a right wing racist - as Attorney General, and now removing the guy he was previously praising from the FBI. is right in line with the script.

Unbelievable. Would love to hear Farage aggressively challenged on his association with this puppet of Bannon.
 
Reactions: Sick Boy

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Jun 17, 2017
  • #3,949
This is a question for leave voters.

If the UK was to leave the EU but stay inside the Single Market, would Brexit have been a complete waste or time and put the country at a disadvantage?
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 17, 2017
  • #3,950
Sick Boy said:
This is a question for leave voters.

If the UK was to leave the EU but stay inside the Single Market, would Brexit have been a complete waste or time and put the country at a disadvantage?
Click to expand...

No
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Jun 17, 2017
  • #3,951
Why not? Still bound by freedom of movement, unable to sign trade deals with no influence over EU policy?
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 17, 2017
  • #3,952
Grendel said:
No
Click to expand...

Explain
 
S

SkyblueBazza

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 17, 2017
  • #3,953
Sick Boy said:
Why not? Still bound by freedom of movement, unable to sign trade deals with no influence over EU policy?
Click to expand...
He only said single market though. Nothing about freedom of movement etc you mentioned

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Jun 17, 2017
  • #3,954
SkyblueBazza said:
He only said single market though. Nothing about freedom of movement etc you mentioned

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

The two are intertwined.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 17, 2017
  • #3,955
Sick Boy said:
The two are intertwined.
Click to expand...

Under the terms of article 50 we have to leave the free trade arrangement as it stands. We are then at liberty to have a free trade arrangement with no other membership caveats.
 
Reactions: SkyblueBazza
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