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The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (22 Viewers)

  • Thread starter jimmyhillsfanclub
  • Start date Jun 8, 2016
Forums New posts

As of right now, how are thinking of voting? In or out

  • Remain

    Votes: 23 37.1%
  • Leave

    Votes: 35 56.5%
  • Undecided

    Votes: 3 4.8%
  • Not registered or not intention to vote

    Votes: 1 1.6%

  • Total voters
    62
  • Poll closed Jun 15, 2016.
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Ian1779

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2019
  • #39,691
If it wasn’t stopped - the new Queen’s Speech has to be voted on, creating a VONC in itself. But not until Oct 14th.
 
D

djr8369

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2019
  • #39,692
djr8369 said:
I assume she’ll want to take the path of least interference but as you point out that might mean not stopping them.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

What an awful position to put the queen in. Any decision she makes will outrage people. She’ll be furious at Johnson and his cronies.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Ian1779

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2019
  • #39,693
torchomatic said:
Can she actually say "no"? I mean constitutionally?
Click to expand...

Not sure - interestingly the last monarch that did it was executed....
 
D

djr8369

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2019
  • #39,694
Ian1779 said:
If it wasn’t stopped - the new Queen’s Speech has to be voted on, creating a VONC in itself. But not until Oct 14th.
Click to expand...

Yes, the idea is it makes it almost impossible to stop while allowing people like Grendel room for manoeuvre by saying “it’s only 5 days”.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2019
  • #39,695
Ian1779 said:
I think she may be powerless to do anything. This hasn’t happened since the 1640’s.
Click to expand...

The proroguing of Parliament requires royal assent. It is completely within her power
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2019
  • #39,696
skybluetony176 said:
A) you are wrong.

B) the labour parties official line is that a general election is their preferred solution even above a second referendum. So again you’re wrong.
Click to expand...

Nope I’m not wrong as the act states that the government can decide on the date of the election so there is nothing to stop them having it early November and instantly dissolving parliament
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2019
  • #39,697
Grendel said:
Not wrong though is it? As he won’t want one this time instead he’s trying a coup against protocol
Click to expand...

Yes wrong as you said that a no confidence vote had to be tabled-it doesn't, the clown can propose one and persuade Labour to back it.
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Aug 28, 2019
  • #39,698
Should have added that for me this shows that Johnson has no serious intention of securing a deal and that no deal is what he is going for. During such an important time in the country's recent history he is probably one of the worst MPs to have in charge.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2019
  • #39,699
Brighton Sky Blue said:
Yes wrong as you said that a no confidence vote had to be tabled-it doesn't, the clown can propose one and persuade Labour to back it.
Click to expand...

For November?
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2019
  • #39,700
Grendel said:
Nope I’m not wrong as the act states that the government can decide on the date of the election so there is nothing to stop them having it early November and instantly dissolving parliament
Click to expand...

Again wrong technically the Queen decides the date
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2019
  • #39,701
torchomatic said:
Can she actually say "no"? I mean constitutionally?
Click to expand...

Yes. It requires the monarch's approval
 
Reactions: torchomatic

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2019
  • #39,702
Brighton Sky Blue said:
Again wrong technically the Queen decides the date
Click to expand...

The parliament act was hastily drawn up and it doesn’t the sitting Prime Minister can decide the date - it could even some experts think could be 6 months after dissolution so Mr Corbyn and his fellow coup members will not be calling an election

Corbyn has to call a no confidence motion - win it and form a government to then agree a delay on the exit date
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2019
  • #39,703
Brighton Sky Blue said:
Yes. It requires the monarch's approval
Click to expand...

She can’t refuse as she then will be a political figure which is against her constitutional role
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2019
  • #39,704
Grendel said:
She can’t refuse as she then will be a political figure which is against her constitutional role
Click to expand...

She has the power of refusal and preventing the clown's blatant abuse of power lies in the interests of the country. She can show for once that she isn't a pointless figurehead
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Aug 28, 2019
  • #39,705
Grendel said:
She can’t refuse as she then will be a political figure which is against her constitutional role
Click to expand...

She would actually be able to refuse though
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2019
  • #39,706
Grendel said:
The parliament act was hastily drawn up and it doesn’t the sitting Prime Minister can decide the date - it could even some experts think could be 6 months after dissolution so Mr Corbyn and his fellow coup members will not be calling an election

Corbyn has to call a no confidence motion - win it and form a government to then agree a delay on the exit date
Click to expand...

How can he do that with what this clown has just done?
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2019
  • #39,707
fernandopartridge said:
I can understand all of the downsides of being the EU (though regulations on employers and employment rights is certainly not one of them), so could be encouraged to vote out on that basis.

HOWEVER, I have no faith at all in the blatant liars within the Leave campaign who will presumably be part of the government post leave if that happens. I am thinking of Boris Johnson, Gove and Priti Patel, all pretty detestable individuals whose interests are certainly not for ordinary British people.
Click to expand...

Prescient
 
Reactions: Sky_Blue_Dreamer, Sick Boy and djr8369

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2019
  • #39,708
Evo1883 said:
Dont cry sweetheart, we've had 3 years of MPs going against its constituents wishes to try and get their own way...

It's about time quite frankly that somebody stood up and said fuck you.. No more

Dont like it.. Don't care
Click to expand...

What utter utter bollocks.

We had an election. We elected a parliament. If you don’t like what they think it’s because you’re out of touch with the will of the people. Deal with it.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2019
  • #39,709
Brighton Sky Blue said:
She has the power of refusal and preventing the clown's blatant abuse of power lies in the interests of the country. She can show for once that she isn't a pointless figurehead
Click to expand...

Oh I thought you were against a monarchy?
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2019
  • #39,710
Grendel said:
Nope I’m not wrong as the act states that the government can decide on the date of the election so there is nothing to stop them having it early November and instantly dissolving parliament
Click to expand...

That isn’t actually what you said. You said that only the opposition can trigger an election. So you’re still A) Wrong B) backtracking and C) attempting to do B with deflection.
 
Reactions: Brighton Sky Blue

torchomatic

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2019
  • #39,711
This could actually backfire on Johnson. Before this I don't think Corbyn had a nope of hell of getting a VONC through, I think he may now scrape through and get the numbers he needs.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2019
  • #39,712
Brighton Sky Blue said:
How can he do that with what this clown has just done?
Click to expand...

He can call a vote of no confidence win it and then he or any other party has 14 days to establish a new government

There is a procedure to prevent him from doing this
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2019
  • #39,713
Ian1779 said:
Not sure - interestingly the last monarch that did it was executed....
Click to expand...

When was that? Presumably before Women and the Plebs were allowed to vote?
 
Reactions: Ian1779

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Aug 28, 2019
  • #39,714
Grendel said:
Oh I thought you were against a monarchy?
Click to expand...

It would be interesting if she actually refused to see how the extremists reacted to it.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2019
  • #39,715
torchomatic said:
This could actually backfire on Johnson. Before this I don't think Corbyn had a nope of hell of getting a VONC through, I think he may now scrape through and get the numbers he needs.
Click to expand...

Then Johnson calls a November election - perfect for Johnson as the Brexit party are then null and void
 

Ian1779

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2019
  • #39,716
Brighton Sky Blue said:
The proroguing of Parliament requires royal assent. It is completely within her power
Click to expand...

But her role is to ‘work on the advice of the Prime Minister’ so how does that work?

Be clear - I want this stopped as well, but can this be a viable avenue?
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2019
  • #39,717
Ian1779 said:
But her role is to ‘work on the advice of the Prime Minister’ so how does that work?

Be clear - I want this stopped as well, but can this be a viable avenue?
Click to expand...

Of course not - she cannot intervene on government advice
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2019
  • #39,718
torchomatic said:
This could actually backfire on Johnson. Before this I don't think Corbyn had a nope of hell of getting a VONC through, I think he may now scrape through and get the numbers he needs.
Click to expand...

I think Rory Stewart pretty much said he would vote against the government in a vote of no confidence should the next PM try to suspend parliament during his leadership campaign. He then increased his number of votes from MP’s in the next round. There’s certainly evidence to suggest a rebellion amongst Tory MP’s is possible and it could backfire on Johnson.
 
Reactions: torchomatic

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2019
  • #39,719
skybluetony176 said:
I think Rory Stewart pretty much said he would vote against the government in a vote of no confidence should the next PM try to suspend parliament during his leadership campaign. He then increased his number of votes from MP’s in the next round. There’s certainly evidence to suggest a rebellion amongst Tory MP’s is possible and it could backfire on Johnson.
Click to expand...

At least we will then be out of the Eu before an election and notwithstanding at least 6 labour MPs and one ex Labour are likely to vote for the government
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2019
  • #39,720
Grendel said:
Of course not - she cannot intervene on government advice
Click to expand...

But if she suspended parliament at the PM’s request minus a vote in the commons she is intervening. It’s only a vote in parliament that can stop her intervening as she will simply be following protocol. Without that vote whether she accepts or refuses the request she is intervening.
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2019
  • #39,721
Grendel said:
Oh I thought you were against a monarchy?
Click to expand...

I am and for the record, a constitutional elected head of state would have the same power. Come on G, she either has a meaningful role or she doesn't and if the former is true, let's elect one instead and if the latter is true, get rid
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2019
  • #39,722
skybluetony176 said:
But if she suspended parliament at the PM’s request minus a vote in the commons she is intervening. It’s only a vote in parliament that can stop her intervening as she will simply be following protocol. Without that vote whether she accepts or refuses the request she is intervening.
Click to expand...

Wrong constitutionally she is not intervening she is merely following the advice of the prime minister

Yesterday’s actions by the opposition leaders and the plan of attack was deeply unconstitutional and it’s likely even if with the speakers help they could force some odd piece of legislation through it cannot be enforced as the government can just say no
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2019
  • #39,723
Grendel said:
He can call a vote of no confidence win it and then he or any other party has 14 days to establish a new government

There is a procedure to prevent him from doing this
Click to expand...

You and I both know he wouldn't succeed
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2019
  • #39,724
torchomatic said:
This could actually backfire on Johnson. Before this I don't think Corbyn had a nope of hell of getting a VONC through, I think he may now scrape through and get the numbers he needs.
Click to expand...

Johnson wants a VONC. He wants an election run on “these bastards are stopping Brexit”
 
Reactions: Ian1779

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2019
  • #39,725
Grendel said:
Then Johnson calls a November election - perfect for Johnson as the Brexit party are then null and void
Click to expand...

Johnson will have 14 days from the vote to try and overturn it. If he fails to do that I’m not sure he’ll even have a say in when the next general election will be as he’ll no longer be PM so I’m not sure how he’ll be able to delay it until November. I think you’re possibly wrong. Again.
 
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