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The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (17 Viewers)

  • Thread starter jimmyhillsfanclub
  • Start date Jun 8, 2016
Forums New posts

As of right now, how are thinking of voting? In or out

  • Remain

    Votes: 23 37.1%
  • Leave

    Votes: 35 56.5%
  • Undecided

    Votes: 3 4.8%
  • Not registered or not intention to vote

    Votes: 1 1.6%

  • Total voters
    62
  • Poll closed Jun 15, 2016.
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D

djr8369

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2019
  • #39,656
Grendel said:
This is our sovereign constitutional process
Click to expand...

Asking the monarch to suspend parliament so you can get your way is our process?

Grendel put your political preference aside and think this through.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Reactions: shmmeee and Sick Boy
D

djr8369

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2019
  • #39,657
Evo1883 said:
Dont cry sweetheart, we've had 3 years of MPs going against its constituents wishes to try and get their own way...

It's about time quite frankly that somebody stood up and said fuck you.. No more

Dont like it.. Don't care
Click to expand...

You’re really not grasping the magnitude of this situation. You don’t understand what you’re giving up by allowing this to happen.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Reactions: shmmeee, Sick Boy and torchomatic

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2019
  • #39,658
djr8369 said:
Asking the monarch to suspend parliament so you can get your way is our process?

Grendel put your political preference aside and think this through.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

No the process as I’m trying to explain is that only the government can pass legislation - yesterday there was a coup to try and prevent the elected government carrying out its constitutional duties.

Sorry that’s the correct process. So the opposition can do one thing - a no confidence motion - they know they will
Lose so are trying to go against the protocol established
 
D

djr8369

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2019
  • #39,659
Grendel said:
The politicians have proved themselves not fit for any purpose.
Click to expand...

Then the process is to call an election and see if the people elect new representatives. Not to ask the monarch to suspend the commons.


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Reactions: shmmeee and Sky_Blue_Dreamer

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2019
  • #39,660
Evo1883 said:
Jeremy thought he could play games been put right back in his box with this one.

Finally, a backbone shown from somebody
Click to expand...

Backbone is being unwilling to debate no deal in a sovereign parliament
 
Reactions: shmmeee, Sky_Blue_Dreamer, Sick Boy and 2 others

Evo1883

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2019
  • #39,661
djr8369 said:
You’re really not grasping the magnitude of this situation. You don’t understand what you’re giving up by allowing this to happen.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...


No its genuinely got to the point where people don't care anymore, we've sat back and watched MP after MP stick a big finger up to their constituents... Did they understand what that was doing to politics? Did they understand what that was doing to the division and anger in this country? Did they even care?

Time to put the clowns back in their place
 
Reactions: Astute

torchomatic

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2019
  • #39,662
djr8369 said:
You’re really not grasping the magnitude of this situation. You don’t understand what you’re giving up by allowing this to happen.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

That's the thing with the Brexit lot though, they really don't care. After No Deal happens and everything turns to shit, they will blame the EU, Corbyn, Caroline Lucas, in fact, anyone apart from themselves. And all the while people like JRM will make even more money off the backs of us all.

This is a democratic outrage.
 
Reactions: Sky_Blue_Dreamer, Sick Boy, Ian1779 and 1 other person
C

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2019
  • #39,663
I think Grendel is correct though. It should be a no confidence vote (not some dodgy unprecedented parliamentary manoeuvre).

I think this will flush out positions ie No confidence vote. Either a government of national unity (without corbyn), an election or a stronger position for Johnson to negotiate with the EU.

People need to remember article 50 was passed by a significant majority in the house. The withdrawal agreement which would have avoided a ‘No Deal’ was rejected three times. MPs took control and tried to offer up alternatives, none of which had a majority. As I said earlier they’ve been a disgrace
 
Reactions: Astute and Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2019
  • #39,664
CCFCSteve said:
I think Grendel is correct though. It should be a no confidence vote (not some dodgy unprecedented parliamentary manoeuvre).

I think this will flush out positions ie No confidence vote. Either a government of national unity (without corbyn), an election or a stronger position for Johnson to negotiate with the EU.

People need to remember article 50 was passed by a significant majority in the house. The withdrawal agreement which would have avoided a ‘No Deal’ was rejected three times. MPs took control and tried to offer up alternatives, none of which had a majority. As I said earlier they’ve been a disgrace
Click to expand...

Correct and again this can be stopped by Jeremy Corbyn following process
 

Evo1883

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2019
  • #39,665
We voted to leave
We tried for a deal

Politicians (on every side) decreed to plot and backstab

They decided that the deal was not right and decided to use this as an opportunity to make a name for themselves

Unlucky
 
D

djr8369

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2019
  • #39,666
Evo1883 said:
We voted to leave
We tried for a deal

Politicians (on every side) decreed to plot and backstab

They decided that the deal was not right and decided to use this as an opportunity to make a name for themselves

Unlucky
Click to expand...

The mandate for leave was on an improved deal though. Following your logic Brexit should be called off.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2019
  • #39,667
Evo1883 said:
No its genuinely got to the point where people don't care anymore, we've sat back and watched MP after MP stick a big finger up to their constituents... Did they understand what that was doing to politics? Did they understand what that was doing to the division and anger in this country? Did they even care?

Time to put the clowns back in their place
Click to expand...

MPs represent all of their constituents, not just those who vote a certain way. I voted Leave but the idea of proroguing parliament to force through a no deal, the consequences of which could be devastating for some people is anti-democratic in the extreme. It is not how our democracy functions.

We live in representative parliamentary democracy, not a direct democracy. Proroguing parliament is literally taking away your representation all at the alter of a vote that took place over 3 years ago.

I can only hope the simpletons and their families cheering this on don't suffer as result of a no deal brexit, and don't blame the EU or perceived 'remainers' for it.
 
Reactions: shmmeee, Sick Boy, torchomatic and 2 others

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2019
  • #39,668
CCFCSteve said:
stronger position for Johnson to negotiate with the EU.
Click to expand...

Why on earth are we still talking about 'negotation' with the EU - it isn't happening. It's a fallacy.
 
Reactions: shmmeee, Sick Boy and djr8369

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2019
  • #39,669
Grendel said:
The politicians have proved themselves not fit for any purpose.
Click to expand...

Call an election then.
 
Reactions: shmmeee, Sick Boy, djr8369 and 1 other person
C

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2019
  • #39,670
Grendel said:
Correct and again this can be stopped by Jeremy Corbyn following process
Click to expand...

They didn’t think they had the numbers yesterday. They might have them today.

I think Johnson knows the EU are refusing to budge in discussions because of potential parliamentary manoeuvres which will delay leaving (or potentially end up revoking article 50). As I said I think this step is to flush out everyone’s positions.

I don’t really like what’s happening (just doesn't feel right) but then again, another delay, then what ?!! The matter needs to be brought to a head/conclusion, I kind of wish it wasn’t being done in this way though.
 

torchomatic

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2019
  • #39,671
A plan is already in place to seek an interim order to prevent parliament being suspended.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2019
  • #39,672
skybluetony176 said:
Call an election then.
Click to expand...

Agreed and that’s for the opposition to do
 
Reactions: Sick Boy and Ian1779
C

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2019
  • #39,673
fernandopartridge said:
Why on earth are we still talking about 'negotation' with the EU - it isn't happening. It's a fallacy.
Click to expand...

We’ll soon find out Fernando. The fact is if everyone believes there’s no more negotiation and everyone (apart from the extreme/ERG) is desperate to avoid a No Deal, why didn’t MPs vote through the WA then ???
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2019
  • #39,674
Grendel said:
Agreed and that’s for the opposition to do
Click to expand...

Why is it?
 
D

djr8369

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2019
  • #39,675
CCFCSteve said:
I think Johnson knows the EU are refusing to budge in discussions because of potential parliamentary manoeuvres which will delay leaving (or potentially end up revoking article 50). As I said I think this step is to flush out everyone’s positions.

.
Click to expand...

The issue is for all the blister and talk of creating a stronger hand there’s very little room for manoeuvre in the negotiations for various pragmatic reasons.

People need to get it out of their heads that the EU can give us a better deal if only they wanted to or we negotiated harder. There are too many issues in Brexit that conflict with reality.



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Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2019
  • #39,676
skybluetony176 said:
Why is it?
Click to expand...

Er because that’s parliamentary protocol? The government are not able to do so under the fixed parliament act
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2019
  • #39,677
Grendel said:
Er because that’s parliamentary protocol? The government are not able to do so under the fixed parliament act
Click to expand...

So how did May do it?
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2019
  • #39,678
skybluetony176 said:
So how did May do it?
Click to expand...

Because it can also be done if 2/3 of the Commons agree to the motion. Corbyn wanted one as well so it happened. G has it wrong yet again
 
Reactions: skybluetony176
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2019
  • #39,679
torchomatic said:
A plan is already in place to seek an interim order to prevent parliament being suspended.
Click to expand...

Let’s see if our wonderful monarch puts a stop to the clown’s shenanigans
 

Ian1779

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2019
  • #39,680
Brighton Sky Blue said:
Let’s see if our wonderful monarch puts a stop to the clown’s shenanigans
Click to expand...

I think she may be powerless to do anything. This hasn’t happened since the 1640’s.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2019
  • #39,681
Brighton Sky Blue said:
Because it can also be done if 2/3 of the Commons agree to the motion. Corbyn wanted one as well so it happened. G has it wrong yet again
Click to expand...

Correct. The government can put it to the commons to a vote and a two thirds majority will trigger a general election which is what May did. The opposition can’t do this. The opposition can only force a general election through a vote of no confidence.

So when Grendull says it’s for the opposition to call an election because of the fixed term parliament act he’s being disingenuous. As is Boris when he claimed he wants and believes that he can do a deal. If he had the conviction of his words he’d be looking to call for a democratic vote in Parliament to put parliament to the democratic vote of the people. Instead a PM that only 0.3% of the population voted for is doing the least democratic thing he can.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2019
  • #39,682
Brighton Sky Blue said:
Because it can also be done if 2/3 of the Commons agree to the motion. Corbyn wanted one as well so it happened. G has it wrong yet again
Click to expand...

Not wrong though is it? As he won’t want one this time instead he’s trying a coup against protocol
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Aug 28, 2019
  • #39,683
Grendel said:
Agreed and that’s for the opposition to do
Click to expand...

It would be the ideal solution but I could see it ending up a hung parliament again.
 
D

djr8369

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2019
  • #39,684
A few millionaires want to ask the monarch to intervene in the processes of the commons so they can create the havoc required to sell the NHS to an America reality TV star and his mates. And half the nation will applaud them. Imagine.


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D

djr8369

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2019
  • #39,685
Grendel said:
Not wrong though is it? As he won’t want one this time instead he’s trying a coup against protocol
Click to expand...

I thought your original point was he should call a VoNC in order to follow process so how would it be a coup?


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skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2019
  • #39,686
Grendel said:
Not wrong though is it? As he won’t want one this time instead he’s trying a coup against protocol
Click to expand...

A) you are wrong.

B) the labour parties official line is that a general election is their preferred solution even above a second referendum. So again you’re wrong.
 
Reactions: Brighton Sky Blue and djr8369

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2019
  • #39,687
Sick Boy said:
It would be the ideal solution but I could see it ending up a hung parliament again.
Click to expand...

Which actually could deliver a more functional government than the current one.
 
Reactions: Sick Boy and djr8369

torchomatic

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2019
  • #39,688
All is not lost, we have a hero in our midst.



House of Commons Speaker John Bercow responds to the PM's statement: “I have had no contact from the government, but if the reports that it is seeking to prorogue Parliament are confirmed, this move represents a constitutional outrage.

“However it is dressed up, it is blindingly obvious that the purpose of prorogation now would be to stop Parliament debating Brexit and performing its duty in shaping a course for the country," he says.
 

torchomatic

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2019
  • #39,689
Brighton Sky Blue said:
Let’s see if our wonderful monarch puts a stop to the clown’s shenanigans
Click to expand...

Can she actually say "no"? I mean constitutionally?
 
D

djr8369

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2019
  • #39,690
torchomatic said:
Can she actually say "no"? I mean constitutionally?
Click to expand...

I assume she’ll want to take the path of least interference but as you point out that might mean not stopping them.


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