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The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (18 Viewers)

  • Thread starter jimmyhillsfanclub
  • Start date Jun 8, 2016
Forums New posts

As of right now, how are thinking of voting? In or out

  • Remain

    Votes: 23 37.1%
  • Leave

    Votes: 35 56.5%
  • Undecided

    Votes: 3 4.8%
  • Not registered or not intention to vote

    Votes: 1 1.6%

  • Total voters
    62
  • Poll closed Jun 15, 2016.
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skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 27, 2019
  • #39,621
“I’d love it if we could be like Norway”. “Lets be clear, no one is talking about leaving the single market”.

No deal 'only acceptable' Brexit, says Farage
 
C

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 27, 2019
  • #39,622
skybluetony176 said:
“I’d love it if we could be like Norway”. “Lets be clear, no one is talking about leaving the single market”.

No deal 'only acceptable' Brexit, says Farage
Click to expand...

Did he actually say that Tony ? (Pre referendum)

I have to say though he’s pissing me off. Does he want Brexit or not ?! He doesn’t appear to accept the fact that people in a sense voted for various forms of Brexit or that the country is approximately 50/50 even now. Therefore there should be some kind of compromise solution (Mays withdrawal agreement with the removal/replacement of backstop is probably as good as you’ll get)

This No Deal at all costs positioning is just plain wrong
 
Reactions: martcov and shmmeee

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 27, 2019
  • #39,623
CCFCSteve said:
Did he actually say that Tony ? (Pre referendum)

I have to say though he’s pissing me off. Does he want Brexit or not ?! He doesn’t appear to accept the fact that people in a sense voted for various forms of Brexit or that the country is approximately 50/50 even now. Therefore there should be some kind of compromise solution (Mays withdrawal agreement with the removal/replacement of backstop is probably as good as you’ll get)

This No Deal at all costs positioning is just plain wrong
Click to expand...

There’s a mix tape of him saying he’d love it if we were like Norway on YouTube. It wasn’t even a passing comment, it’s something he said on a regular basis. The latter comment I couldn’t honestly say that I heard him say it although it was I believe UKIP’s official line through the referendum campaign, a point at which he was still leader.

The point is though that you’re apparently not allowed to change your mind. Unless you’re Ferage, I doubt he’ll get questioned too heavily on it though as he never seems to.
 
Reactions: martcov

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2019
  • #39,624
CCFCSteve said:
Did he actually say that Tony ? (Pre referendum)

I have to say though he’s pissing me off. Does he want Brexit or not ?! He doesn’t appear to accept the fact that people in a sense voted for various forms of Brexit or that the country is approximately 50/50 even now. Therefore there should be some kind of compromise solution (Mays withdrawal agreement with the removal/replacement of backstop is probably as good as you’ll get)

This No Deal at all costs positioning is just plain wrong
Click to expand...
When you voted remain what did you vote for? To me it was to remain in the EU. Keep to their rules and regulations. So what did those who voted to leave for? The question was in or out.

Of course there should be some kind of compromise. But would you like to point out who it is that doesn't want to compromise? It isn't the UK. I have said all along that I expect a last minute deal of some kind if it went this far.

This no deal positioning should have been done from the start if leaving was going to be the priority. But it wasn't under May. When looking for a deal in any walk of life you always start off asking for more than you want. Because a compromise is always needed in negotiations. How can you compromise when you start with what you need?
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Aug 28, 2019
  • #39,625
Astute said:
When you voted remain what did you vote for? To me it was to remain in the EU. Keep to their rules and regulations. So what did those who voted to leave for? The question was in or out.

Of course there should be some kind of compromise. But would you like to point out who it is that doesn't want to compromise? It isn't the UK. I have said all along that I expect a last minute deal of some kind if it went this far.

This no deal positioning should have been done from the start if leaving was going to be the priority. But it wasn't under May. When looking for a deal in any walk of life you always start off asking for more than you want. Because a compromise is always needed in negotiations. How can you compromise when you start with what you need?
Click to expand...

I think he means a compromise internally between remain and leave.

If you think the EU is hard nosed just wait until negotiations with America start. Other countries will get as much as they can as they’ll know the UK will be in a distressed position.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2019
  • #39,626
Sick Boy said:
I think he means a compromise internally between remain and leave.

If you think the EU is hard nosed just wait until negotiations with America start. Other countries will get as much as they can as they’ll know the UK will be in a distressed position.
Click to expand...
The so called May deal was all about compromise. And nobody wanted it. Not even yourself.

Hard nosed? No. They said what they wanted and expected it because of May. And they can afford to do it as they make the rules up as they go along. If they fail to get what they want they then have another two years to come to an agreement. But the thing that so many love to ignore is that so do we. The difference is that there is unity in the EU but it seems some would like to see us crash and burn so they can say told you so. While we don't have unity the EU still sees the chance of taking us to the cleaners.
 
D

djr8369

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2019
  • #39,627
Astute said:
This no deal positioning should have been done from the start if leaving was going to be the priority. But it wasn't under May. When looking for a deal in any walk of life you always start off asking for more than you want. Because a compromise is always needed in negotiations. How can you compromise when you start with what you need?
Click to expand...

The problem is in normal situations involving making a deal, not making a deal would result in keeping the status quo, which in this case would be remain, not burning your bridges like in no deal.

I keep hearing people say “you don’t tell a car salesman what car you want and that you’re going to leave with a car when buying a car” in what must be the stupidest analogy ever concocted. In this analogy no deal is the equivalent to refusing to pay the settlement of your finance agreement, leaving your previous car there and walking home in the rain.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Reactions: Sick Boy
D

djr8369

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2019
  • #39,628
djr8369 said:
The problem is in normal situations involving making a deal, not making a deal would result in keeping the status quo, which in this case would be remain, not burning your bridges like in no deal.

I keep hearing people say “you don’t tell a car salesman what car you want and that you’re going to leave with a car when buying a car” in what must be the stupidest analogy ever concocted. In this analogy no deal is the equivalent to refusing to pay the settlement of your finance agreement, leaving your previous car there and walking home in the rain.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Also, you’ve bought into the Trump BS, geopolitics is not bartering for Knick knacks on holiday.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Reactions: Sick Boy

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Aug 28, 2019
  • #39,629
Astute said:
The so called May deal was all about compromise. And nobody wanted it. Not even yourself.

Hard nosed? No. They said what they wanted and expected it because of May. And they can afford to do it as they make the rules up as they go along. If they fail to get what they want they then have another two years to come to an agreement. But the thing that so many love to ignore is that so do we. The difference is that there is unity in the EU but it seems some would like to see us crash and burn so they can say told you so. While we don't have unity the EU still sees the chance of taking us to the cleaners.
Click to expand...

How was May’s deal a compromise between 2 sides?

Majorly disagree, the EU holds way more cards than the UK, the only threat the UK has is no deal, which is a hell of a long way away from what we were initially told and it’s also going to be an act of self-harm.

How would unity make the UK stronger? It’s a busted argument that has been used to set the whole thing up as the fault of others by those who are responsible for where the UK is now (the likes of Johnson with no plan).
 
C

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2019
  • #39,630
Astute said:
When you voted remain what did you vote for? To me it was to remain in the EU. Keep to their rules and regulations. So what did those who voted to leave for? The question was in or out.

Of course there should be some kind of compromise. But would you like to point out who it is that doesn't want to compromise? It isn't the UK. I have said all along that I expect a last minute deal of some kind if it went this far.

This no deal positioning should have been done from the start if leaving was going to be the priority. But it wasn't under May. When looking for a deal in any walk of life you always start off asking for more than you want. Because a compromise is always needed in negotiations. How can you compromise when you start with what you need?
Click to expand...

I voted Leave Astute. I think I’ve mentioned on here before I was sat on the fence right up to the final week/day but ultimately decided when reading up on the history of not implementing EU referendums, considering their behaviour towards Cameron (it was probably as much his fault as theirs but they both showed contempt towards genuine public concerns) and also my belief that every nation should have the ability to control their own borders (whether they actually bother is another question !!). Just to be clear this isn’t an anti immigration stance, this is a if 500k or 750k net turned up one or two years on the bounce, how would our infrastructure cope.

Sick boy is correct. I expected the leave and remain sides/MPs to come together with a compromise. What we’ve ended up with is ERG loonies on one side saying it’s got to be a No Deal, those who clearly don’t accept the result (this trying to avoid No deal is bullshit, they want to revoke article 50) on the other and Corbyn/McDonnell politicising it in the middle. It’s a disgrace !

If a deal can’t be reached by 31 Oct we should leave with No Deal. If the EU believed we would and also that a revised WA would get through Parliament, do I think there would be movement, definitely.

Do I think the continued attempts to extend/delay from the ‘Alliance’ and noises that ERG would vote it down anyway are encouraging the EU to sit still. Yes.

Our MPs have let us down. I’m pissed off that the EU are being difficult but it’s what I would expect and do myself if I was them. It is their exit structure/sequencing which is also very much to blame for this mess though.
 
Last edited: Aug 28, 2019
Reactions: Astute

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2019
  • #39,631
Well now the government has asked the queen to suspend parliament - extraordinary times
 
D

djr8369

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2019
  • #39,632
Grendel said:
Well now the government has asked the queen to suspend parliament - extraordinary times
Click to expand...

Extraordinary. Whatever your view on Brexit surely suspending the commons is a reversion to a historic form of politics that belongs in the past. Disgusting.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Reactions: Sky_Blue_Dreamer, chiefdave, stupot07 and 1 other person

torchomatic

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2019
  • #39,633
Grendel said:
Well now the government has asked the queen to suspend parliament - extraordinary times
Click to expand...

Abolute cunts. How is this "taking back control"? Suspending Parliament in the name of restoring Parliamentary sovereignty.
 
Reactions: Sky_Blue_Dreamer, chiefdave and stupot07

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2019
  • #39,634
Grendel said:
Well now the government has asked the queen to suspend parliament - extraordinary times
Click to expand...

The most anti-democratic act of a lifetime, utterly disgusting.
 
Reactions: torchomatic, Sky_Blue_Dreamer, chiefdave and 2 others
D

djr8369

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2019
  • #39,635
torchomatic said:
Abolute cunts. How is this "taking back control"? Suspending Parliament in the name of restoring Parliamentary sovereignty.
Click to expand...

Presumably there will be huge riots at which point the government will try to use the police to subvert the people to their will. That’s the country we’re becoming.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2019
  • #39,636
djr8369 said:
Extraordinary. Whatever your view on Brexit surely suspending the commons is a reversion to a historic form of politics that belongs in the past. Disgusting.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

The ridiculous antics of Corbyn and the other hapless crew of remainers inevitable
 

torchomatic

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2019
  • #39,637
Autocratic government. This is an aftront to decomracy. Parliament should use every legal tool at its disposal to stop this shameful act.
 
Reactions: djr8369

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2019
  • #39,638
It is being suspended for 5 days
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2019
  • #39,639
Grendel said:
The ridiculous antics of Corbyn and the other hapless crew of remainers inevitable
Click to expand...

Nonsense - if the government doesn't want legislation that rules out no deal then it needs to use parliament to rule it out, not stop it being debated whatsoever
 
Reactions: Sky_Blue_Dreamer, Ian1779, chiefdave and 2 others

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2019
  • #39,640
torchomatic said:
Autocratic government. This is an aftront to decomracy. Parliament should use every legal tool at its disposal to stop this shameful act.
Click to expand...

The action has arisen due to the opposition parties trying to pass legislation which it itself is by our constitution undemocratic

The correct process is to bring the government down by a no confidence vote. They are attempting to get round procedure and protocol as they know they will not win the vote
 
Reactions: SIR ERNIE and Evo1883
C

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2019
  • #39,641
I might be wrong (and certainly not trying to defend it) however I presume that if there was no deal by the end of the suspension ie 14 Oct Parliament could still try to seek to stop us leaving on 31 Oct ?

I wonder if it’s an attempt to give Johnson until 14 Oct to agree a deal and focus EUs minds.
 

torchomatic

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2019
  • #39,642
I'm certainly no fan of Corbyn, but at least he has reached out to Parliament. Those Tory rebels and others need to swallow their pride and back him to stop No Deal. It will be an absolute disaster for the UK.
 
Reactions: djr8369

torchomatic

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2019
  • #39,643
Grendel said:
The action has arisen due to the opposition parties trying to pass legislation which it itself is by our constitution undemocratic

The correct process is to bring the government down by a no confidence vote. They are attempting to get round procedure and protocol as they know they will not win the vote
Click to expand...

Haha, "legislation" and "undemocratic" in the same sentence.

Typical of Brexiteers. The EU are undemocratic apparently, but shutting down Parliament to get what they is want apparently isn't.
 
Reactions: djr8369

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2019
  • #39,644
fernandopartridge said:
Nonsense - if the government doesn't want legislation that rules out no deal then it needs to use parliament to rule it out, not stop it being debated whatsoever
Click to expand...

Governments pass legislation the proposal itself that was discussed yesterday is against the constitution
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2019
  • #39,645
torchomatic said:
Haha, "legislation" and "undemocratic" in the same sentence.
Click to expand...

This is our sovereign constitutional process
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2019
  • #39,646
torchomatic said:
I'm certainly no fan of Corbyn, but at least he has reached out to Parliament. Those Tory rebels and others need to swallow their pride and back him to stop No Deal. It will be an absolute disaster for the UK.
Click to expand...

He hasn’t - he needs to put a no confidence motion through and form a new government
 
D

djr8369

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2019
  • #39,647
CCFCSteve said:
I might be wrong (and certainly not trying to defend it) however I presume that if there was no deal by the end of the suspension ie 14 Oct Parliament could still try to seek to stop us leaving on 31 Oct ?

I wonder if it’s an attempt to give Johnson until 14 Oct to agree a deal and focus EUs minds.
Click to expand...

I think the idea is there’s no time to stop it via any means. Power removed from the commons to fulfil a project dreamt up by a few wealthy elites because they want to siphon money from a trade deal with the states.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Evo1883

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2019
  • #39,648
Jeremy thought he could play games been put right back in his box with this one.

Finally, a backbone shown from somebody
 

torchomatic

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2019
  • #39,649
Grendel said:
This is our sovereign constitutional process
Click to expand...

Which is being shut down so No Deal can pass without Parliament "getting in the way". How democratic!
 
Reactions: djr8369
C

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2019
  • #39,650
djr8369 said:
I think the idea is there’s no time to stop it via any means. Power removed from the commons to fulfil a project dreamt up by a few wealthy elites because they want to siphon money from a trade deal with the states.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Not sure that’s who dreamt up ‘the project’
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2019
  • #39,651
So much for voting leave to secure parliamentary democracy.
 
Reactions: torchomatic
D

djr8369

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2019
  • #39,652
Evo1883 said:
Jeremy thought he could play games been put right back in his box with this one.

Finally, a backbone shown from somebody
Click to expand...

Have you any concept of the sacrifice that was required to establish the House of Commons and remove power from the monarchy.

You’re an embarrassment.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Reactions: shmmeee, Sick Boy and Ian1779

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2019
  • #39,653
torchomatic said:
Which is being shut down so No Deal can pass without Parliament "getting in the way". How democratic!
Click to expand...

The point is the proposed action by the opposition parties is against the constitution - the opposition have to put forward s no confidence motion on day one and bring the government down
 

Evo1883

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2019
  • #39,654
djr8369 said:
Have you any concept of the sacrifice that was required to establish the House of Commons and remove power from the monarchy.

You’re an embarrassment.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Dont cry sweetheart, we've had 3 years of MPs going against its constituents wishes to try and get their own way...

It's about time quite frankly that somebody stood up and said fuck you.. No more

Dont like it.. Don't care
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2019
  • #39,655
djr8369 said:
Have you any concept of the sacrifice that was required to establish the House of Commons and remove power from the monarchy.

You’re an embarrassment.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

The politicians have proved themselves not fit for any purpose.
 
Reactions: Evo1883
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