The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (10 Viewers)

clint van damme · Aug 3, 2019

torchomatic said:
Yes, different standpoint. Shame the Labour party has sunk to this.

Centrists won't be in charge anytime soon, so Corbyn will fight and lose the next election against an appalling Tory party. He currently has the lowest opposition poll rating in history. As I said Corbyn needs people like me to vote for him, but it will never happen.

Johnson will call an election and wipe the floor with Corbyn, which is so frustrating.

Anyway, we'll have to agree to disagree.

yeah, the Labour party needs people like you Torch, but I think once Corbyn goes a centrist leader will come in and they'll need people like me but I'll never vote for a centrist leader again, (can't support a politician who supported austerity as most centrists did), so there is the impasse.
I don't think there is a candidate who can bring both factions together, would be happy to see one replace Corbyn but I think what we'll get is a tory lite manifesto only with a strong remain agenda. Either way, one faction of traditional Labour support will feel alienated.

Deleted member 5849 · Aug 3, 2019

clint van damme said:
yeah, the Labour party needs people like you Torch, but I think once Corbyn goes a centrist leader will come in and they'll need people like me but I'll never vote for a centrist leader again, (can't support a politician who supported austerity as most centrists did), so there is the impasse.
I don't think there is a candidate who can bring both factions together, would be happy to see one replace Corbyn but I think what we'll get is a tory lite manifesto only with a strong remain agenda. Either way, one faction of traditional Labour support will feel alienated.

tbf I'd think Corbyn himself would stand aside if there were a left leaning candidate he thought were more electable. Don't think he ever *wanted* to be leader, it just... happened!

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Aug 3, 2019

Yeah he was the left's usual token candidate but the level of unhappiness and the fact he seemed the most genuine (or the least 'career politician') of the bunch he ended up winning. Now the hard left have a leader back in charge they're jumping on anyone who even slightly criticises because they know the next person will be a move back to the right.

torchomatic · Aug 3, 2019

clint van damme said:
yeah, the Labour party needs people like you Torch, but I think once Corbyn goes a centrist leader will come in and they'll need people like me but I'll never vote for a centrist leader again, (can't support a politician who supported austerity as most centrists did), so there is the impasse.
I don't think there is a candidate who can bring both factions together, would be happy to see one replace Corbyn but I think what we'll get is a tory lite manifesto only with a strong remain agenda. Either way, one faction of traditional Labour support will feel alienated.

Weird, isn't it? In the 80s I was in the SWP and stuff and was pretty miliant but as I got older I became more centrist. I'm more than happy for a left winger to take over from Corbyn - I honestly think he is toxic - but the people he has surrounded self with - the aforementioned Burgon, Long-Bailey, Gardiner, Butler, etc are pretty crap politticans and only on the front bench because they are Corbyn loyalists. There will be someone and there NEEDS to be someone as this country really does need a Labour government.

Anyway, off to St Andrews now. PUSB and all that.

Grendel · Aug 3, 2019

torchomatic said:
Weird, isn't it? In the 80s I was in the SWP and stuff and was pretty miliant but as I got older I became more centrist. I'm more than happy for a left winger to take over from Corbyn - I honestly think he is toxic - but the people he has surrounded self with - the aforementioned Burgon, Long-Bailey, Gardiner, Butler, etc are pretty crap politticans and only on the front bench because they are Corbyn loyalists. There will be someone and there NEEDS to be someone as this country really does need a Labour government.

Anyway, off to St Andrews now. PUSB and all that.

Emily Thornberry?

torchomatic · Aug 3, 2019

Grendel said:
Emily Thornberry?

at one time I would have said no, but she seems to be out of the inner Corbyn circle now. Basically, I would not trust anyone from the current Front Bench apart from Keir Starmer maybe. The rest are there for their loyalty, not for their political nous. I mean, I find it remarkable Richard Burgon is even an MP. Thick as shit.

Ian1779 · Aug 3, 2019

torchomatic said:
at one time I would have said no, but she seems to be out of the inner Corbyn circle now. Basically, I would not trust anyone from the current Front Bench apart from Keir Starmer maybe. The rest are there for their loyalty, not for their political nous. I mean, I find it remarkable Richard Burgon is even an MP. Thick as shit.

I’ll see your Richard Burgon and raise you James Cleverley.

Brighton Sky Blue · Aug 4, 2019

Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
Yeah he was the left's usual token candidate but the level of unhappiness and the fact he seemed the most genuine (or the least 'career politician') of the bunch he ended up winning. Now the hard left have a leader back in charge they're jumping on anyone who even slightly criticises because they know the next person will be a move back to the right.

Three hard left Corbyn policies-go

Brighton Sky Blue · Aug 4, 2019

torchomatic said:
Yes, different standpoint. Shame the Labour party has sunk to this.

Centrists won't be in charge anytime soon, so Corbyn will fight and lose the next election against an appalling Tory party. He currently has the lowest opposition poll rating in history. As I said Corbyn needs people like me to vote for him, but it will never happen.

Johnson will call an election and wipe the floor with Corbyn, which is so frustrating.

Anyway, we'll have to agree to disagree.

He will run on widely popular policies while the Tories will run on either stolen Labour policies or more freebies for the very well off. Even if you loathe the man, the difference in policies should make it a no brainier.

fernandopartridge · Aug 4, 2019

torchomatic said:
Yes, different standpoint. Shame the Labour party has sunk to this.

Centrists won't be in charge anytime soon, so Corbyn will fight and lose the next election against an appalling Tory party. He currently has the lowest opposition poll rating in history. As I said Corbyn needs people like me to vote for him, but it will never happen.

Johnson will call an election and wipe the floor with Corbyn, which is so frustrating.

Anyway, we'll have to agree to disagree.

I think it's pretty pathetic that you'll happily see a Tory government just to spite Corbyn. As you well know you vote for a party not a PM

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Grendel · Aug 4, 2019

Brighton Sky Blue said:
He will run on widely popular policies while the Tories will run on either stolen Labour policies or more freebies for the very well off. Even if you loathe the man, the difference in policies should make it a no brainier.

Indeed it does - if you value your family and your future no working class person with any brain would vote for a vile creature like Jeremy Corbyn

Brighton Sky Blue · Aug 4, 2019

Grendel said:
Indeed it does - if you value your family and your future no working class person with any brain would vote for a vile creature like Jeremy Corbyn

Which Tory policies are your favourite?

torchomatic · Aug 4, 2019

fernandopartridge said:
I think it's pretty pathetic that you'll happily see a Tory government just to spite Corbyn. As you well know you vote for a party not a PM

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You dont know what the fuck you're on about. The last thing I want is a Tory government, which is why Labour need someone electable. A leader that people from right across the political spectrum can vote for. Corbyn isn't that person.

Brighton Sky Blue · Aug 4, 2019

torchomatic said:
You dont know what the fuck you're on about. The last thing I want is a Tory government, which is why Labour need someone electable. A leader that people from right across the political spectrum can vote for. Corbyn isn't that person.

3 hard left Corbyn policies-go

Grendel · Aug 4, 2019

Brighton Sky Blue said:
3 hard left Corbyn policies-go

Are you 5 years old?

fernandopartridge · Aug 4, 2019

torchomatic said:
You dont know what the fuck you're on about. The last thing I want is a Tory government, which is why Labour need someone electable. A leader that people from right across the political spectrum can vote for. Corbyn isn't that person.

Who might that be?

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Grendel · Aug 4, 2019

fernandopartridge said:
Who might that be?

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To become electable someone like Starmer who has no baggage

torchomatic · Aug 4, 2019

fernandopartridge said:
Who might that be?

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Who knows? Labour needs millions of people who dont vote for them at present to vote for them, from Scotland to Sussex.

I want a Labour government more than anything but at the moment we have no chance.

Corbyn's moment was the 2017 GE.

Brighton Sky Blue · Aug 4, 2019

Grendel said:
Are you 5 years old?

Ad hominems instead of addressing the question. Rather than regurgitate right wing framing give me the policy evidence that he is 'hard left'

Grendel · Aug 4, 2019

Brighton Sky Blue said:
Ad hominems instead of addressing the question. Rather than regurgitate right wing framing give me the policy evidence that he is 'hard left'

The question is irrelevant - Corbyn is a hard left dinosaur from the 70’s - he will never ever be elected. To be fair as long as there idiots like you who think he can I’m happy as he will never be prime minister so please keep believing

Brighton Sky Blue · Aug 4, 2019

Grendel said:
The question is irrelevant - Corbyn is a hard left dinosaur from the 70’s - he will never ever be elected. To be fair as long as there idiots like you who think he can I’m happy as he will never be prime minister so please keep believing

Yawn can't answer the question so more ad homs

Grendel · Aug 4, 2019

Brighton Sky Blue said:
Yawn can't answer the question so more ad homs

The question and your own opinion of and your little minority of socialist sympathisers is irrelevant

It’s the country that finds you boring and irrelevant and your failed 70’s policies - until the penny drops you’ll always be frustrated

Brighton Sky Blue · Aug 5, 2019

Grendel said:
The question and your own opinion of and your little minority of socialist sympathisers is irrelevant

It’s the country that finds you boring and irrelevant and your failed 70’s policies - until the penny drops you’ll always be frustrated

There aren’t any 70s policies on offer you just parrot the Telegraph and avoid substantive discussion. Social democratic policies poll very well with the public-but this changes when the policies are associated with Labour.

All to do with media framing, as George Osborne once explained in detail

Grendel · Aug 5, 2019

Brighton Sky Blue said:
There aren’t any 70s policies on offer you just parrot the Telegraph and avoid substantive discussion. Social democratic policies poll very well with the public-but this changes when the policies are associated with Labour.

All to do with media framing, as George Osborne once explained in detail

Do you think they would change when associated with labour if Blair was still in power?

Deleted member 5849 · Aug 5, 2019

Grendel said:
Do you think they would change when associated with labour if Blair was still in power?

Would Blair be offering the same policies?

Grendel · Aug 5, 2019

Deleted member 5849 said:
Would Blair be offering the same policies?

Well according to you and Brighton there are no left wing strategies so I would assume so

It’s really not the point though. With respect neither of you were adults in the 80’s and Jeremy Corbyn was then an extreme version of Galloway. He’s associated from them with an unpleasant stench regarding the IRA, he’s the one throwback to Michael Foot in that he’s within the control of a despotic union leader who the majority find repulsive and bullying, misogyny (he definitely is that) and an ability to side with terrorists. Many labour voters will never vote for Corbyn ever. His electoral performance last time was unexpected but still May attracted more votes. Keep with him he will never be Prime Minister

Brighton Sky Blue · Aug 5, 2019

Grendel said:
Do you think they would change when associated with labour if Blair was still in power?

Blair had the king of spin by his side, he successfully conned the country into war with Iraq so genuinely popular policies would be no problem. Corbyn has no 'hard left' policy positions in the manifesto. This is why for all your insults and sarcasm there is no policy based rebuttal of the party. Because you'd be arguing against things which have broad popular support. You also keep assuming that I want Corbyn as leader at all costs-that's never been my position. Just give me someone else with the same policy positions and less baggage and I'm fine with that

Brighton Sky Blue · Aug 5, 2019

Grendel said:
His electoral performance last time was unexpected but still May attracted more votes.

How do you think Labour would have done in 2017 if Ed Miliband were still leader?

Alan Dugdales Moustache · Aug 5, 2019

Liquid Gold said:
It's definitely a good idea, think in the long run when the less developed nations who take more than they put in have developed to a sufficient level. Not only will we have massive trading opportunities but people will not have the economic need to come to the uk. We can live and work anywhere in Europe and that is incredible, to give this up due to short sighted concerns about migration and finance is insanity.

How long is the long run ? So we're just propping them up in the meantime.

Grendel · Aug 5, 2019

Brighton Sky Blue said:
How do you think Labour would have done in 2017 if Ed Miliband were still leader?

As badly as the Tories did when they kidded themselves that John Major was worth a second run after doing better then expected first time round.

Alan Johnson is correct in his very grim assessment of Jeremy Corbyn and his worthless style of leadership. Even taking out the nastiness he is a protest group leader

You need to get your head out of your arse. Party members mean zilch - they are always full of nut jobs. Labour is they go back with Corbyn again this time will be battered in an election

Ian1779 · Aug 5, 2019

Grendel said:
As badly as the Tories did when they kidded themselves that John Major was worth a second run after doing better then expected first time round.

Alan Johnson is correct in his very grim assessment of Jeremy Corbyn and his worthless style of leadership. Even taking out the nastiness he is a protest group leader

You need to get your head out of your arse. Party members mean zilch - they are always full of nut jobs. Labour is they go back with Corbyn again this time will be battered in an election

Alan Johnson was the leader of the Remain campaign. I don’t think there is anything left to say on his ability to judge the skills required to lead a successful campaign.

Plus he’s been endorsed by Anna Soubry....

Grendel · Aug 5, 2019

Ian1779 said:
Alan Johnson was the leader of the Remain campaign. I don’t think there is anything left to say on his ability to judge the skills required to lead a successful campaign.

Plus he’s been endorsed by Anna Soubry....

Well there is - the traditional labour voters labour needs will be far more likely to listen to Alan Johnson than a terrorist hugger like Mr Corbyn - you want to ignore a generation of people who remember Corbyn and McDonnell from the past - many will never vote for the party while they are at the helm.

Brighton Sky Blue · Aug 5, 2019

Grendel said:
As badly as the Tories did when they kidded themselves that John Major was worth a second run after doing better then expected first time round.

Alan Johnson is correct in his very grim assessment of Jeremy Corbyn and his worthless style of leadership. Even taking out the nastiness he is a protest group leader

You need to get your head out of your arse. Party members mean zilch - they are always full of nut jobs. Labour is they go back with Corbyn again this time will be battered in an election

I don't know how many times I have to say that Corbyn isn't the only individual I'll consider as leader.

SkyblueBazza · Aug 5, 2019

And there we go...once again EU either unwilling, ambivalent, too divided, too scared, too cumbersome or whatever...but ultimately too slow &/or indecisive to react by the looks

UK joins United States for maritime security mission in Gulf - Reuters

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Ian1779 · Aug 5, 2019

Grendel said:
Well there is - the traditional labour voters labour needs will be far more likely to listen to Alan Johnson than a terrorist hugger like Mr Corbyn - you want to ignore a generation of people who remember Corbyn and McDonnell from the past - many will never vote for the party while they are at the helm.

There are plenty of new voters that will do. And a generation of those they’ll lose if we end back up with a Tory-lite Labour Party.

The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (10 Viewers)

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