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The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (7 Viewers)

  • Thread starter jimmyhillsfanclub
  • Start date Jun 8, 2016
Forums New posts

As of right now, how are thinking of voting? In or out

  • Remain

    Votes: 23 37.1%
  • Leave

    Votes: 35 56.5%
  • Undecided

    Votes: 3 4.8%
  • Not registered or not intention to vote

    Votes: 1 1.6%

  • Total voters
    62
  • Poll closed Jun 15, 2016.
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Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • May 6, 2017
  • #3,816
Such sensitive little snowflakes.
 
Reactions: martcov

Captain Dart

Well-Known Member
  • May 6, 2017
  • #3,817
martcov said:
Are you blaming Luxemburg for surrendering? The Luxemburg army is about 300 strong at the moment,. I suspect the German language was more important to them then as now. Their own language is similar to German..

Anyway, it is strange that everyone is up in arms about a little negative quip by Juncker, but the same people were praising Farage for his constant digs and insults in the European Parliament...

I don't like either of them, but I am not bothered about Juncker's little dig. With the collapse of Labour and the prospect of an almost one party state in the U.K., I think we have other things to worry about.
Click to expand...

One party state, what bollocks. What is the difference between the UK & Germany. Merkel has been in power since 2005 and stands again soon.



Labour was in power in this country for 13 years from 1997, the 1997 government had a record majority (1945 Labour government had a big majority too). Even if the Tories equal that the likelihood is they will be out in a decade.
 
Reactions: SIR ERNIE and mrtrench
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • May 6, 2017
  • #3,818
Captain Dart said:
One party state, what bollocks. What is the difference between the UK & Germany. Merkel has been in power since 2005 and stands again soon.

View attachment 7388

Labour was in power in this country for 13 years from 1997, the 1997 government had a record majority (1945 Labour government had a big majority too). Even if the Tories equal that the likelihood is they will be out in a decade.
Click to expand...

1. I said almost. Meaning massive majority ( predicted) and no opposition for the time being.

2. Merkel nearly always is part of a coalition. She is not a president and her coalition partners can pull the rug from under her feet at any time should she break the coalition contract. Her party's unlikely to get an overall majority in September. Her coalition the last 2 times was with CSU ( right of her party ) and SPD ( left of her party ). Before it was with FDP ( liberal and centrist) and CSU.

3. you quote from the past. No-one knows how long this right wing wave will last.
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • May 6, 2017
  • #3,819
martcov said:
I said almost. Meaning massive majority ( predicted) and no opposition for the time being.
Click to expand...
The big problem, well one of them, is that the changes the Conservatives have made to how the electoral register is maintained and constituency boundaries makes it incredibly difficult for Labour to win in England.

The change to individual voter registration has seen 800,000 drop off the electoral register. The majority are students, ethnic minorities or those from poorer areas of the country. Not exactly the profile of Conservative voters. This has been done against Electoral Commission advice.

At the last election the Conservatives got 34,244 votes for every seat they won, Labour required an average of 40,290 to win a seat. With the changes to the constituency boundaries it will be even more in the Conservatives favour this time round. The changes to the boundaries based on the last election would see the Conservatives lose 5% of their MPs while Labour would lose 13%

The system is a mess, even before you consider the deficiencies of first past the post, but there seems little appetite to address the problems and carry out any meaningful reform.
 
Reactions: Sick Boy
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • May 6, 2017
  • #3,820
Captain Dart said:
One party state, what bollocks. What is the difference between the UK & Germany. Merkel has been in power since 2005 and stands again soon.

View attachment 7388

Labour was in power in this country for 13 years from 1997, the 1997 government had a record majority (1945 Labour government had a big majority too). Even if the Tories equal that the likelihood is they will be out in a decade.
Click to expand...

And... ( see above post ) it seems you and so many others have not got a clue about who Merkel is, what she represents and how the German system works. You hear things like' mad Merkel' from Farage, UKIP, Murdoch and Trump - and lap it up. You hear crap from the same people about 'sovereignty', queues of countries wanting to give us great deals, millions of refugees and free loaders pouring in - or as Farage said on Fox News ( forgive my laughter ) 500 million potential illegal immigrants and you lap it up and yes, you have found scape goats and people below you - and you probably feel better... But your mentors are pissing themselves all the way to the bank.. and now Juncker has made a small dig at the English language and everything you believed in has been confirmed.. you must be on cloud 7. go have a beer and relax. You've earned it...
 
Reactions: Sick Boy
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • May 6, 2017
  • #3,821
chiefdave said:
The big problem, well one of them, is that the changes the Conservatives have made to how the electoral register is maintained and constituency boundaries makes it incredibly difficult for Labour to win in England.

The change to individual voter registration has seen 800,000 drop off the electoral register. The majority are students, ethnic minorities or those from poorer areas of the country. Not exactly the profile of Conservative voters. This has been done against Electoral Commission advice.

At the last election the Conservatives got 34,244 votes for every seat they won, Labour required an average of 40,290 to win a seat. With the changes to the constituency boundaries it will be even more in the Conservatives favour this time round. The changes to the boundaries based on the last election would see the Conservatives lose 5% of their MPs while Labour would lose 13%

The system is a mess, even before you consider the deficiencies of first past the post, but there seems little appetite to address the problems and carry out any meaningful reform.
Click to expand...

Well said. Nothing to do with democracy- but let's divert attention to the undemocratic and intransparent EU... always works. Until we're no longer in it.
 
K

Kingokings204

Well-Known Member
  • May 6, 2017
  • #3,822
martcov said:
They think it is a mistake for Britain and that it will have negative consequences in Germany. The Germans see it as a lose lose situation. They find it hard to understand- it defies their sense of logic.

Property prices are rising dramatically in Frankfurt- so at least some Germans think they will be winning...
Click to expand...

Property prices have gone up fast here in coventry also as I have just sold my house and got a fortune. I thought voting brexit was going to crash the housing market or was all the lies on the leave side?
 

dutchman

Well-Known Member
  • May 6, 2017
  • #3,823
Kingokings204 said:
Property prices have gone up fast here in coventry also as I have just sold my house and got a fortune. I thought voting brexit was going to crash the housing market or was all the lies on the leave side?
Click to expand...
It would have done if the Bank of England had raised interest rates as it threatened it would do. In the event they reduced interest rates which has boosted property prices and lowered the Pound.
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • May 6, 2017
  • #3,824
Kingokings204 said:
Property prices have gone up fast here in coventry also as I have just sold my house and got a fortune. I thought voting brexit was going to crash the housing market or was all the lies on the leave side?
Click to expand...

The full effects won't be realised until it's actually happened...

The BoE also pumped billions into the economy, something which seems to have been forgotten
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • May 6, 2017
  • #3,825
Kingokings204 said:
Property prices have gone up fast here in coventry also as I have just sold my house and got a fortune. I thought voting brexit was going to crash the housing market or was all the lies on the leave side?
Click to expand...

Good move... sell at the top of the cycle... many on here point out that house prices are too high because of the millions of EU immigrants.... At the moment you are selling in a relatively prosperous EU country. Good time. Maybe the prices will fall as a result of Brexit. It is too early to predict and Brexit is a few years away.
 
Reactions: Kingokings204

ccfc92

Well-Known Member
  • May 6, 2017
  • #3,826
martcov said:
Good move... sell at the top of the cycle... many on here point out that house prices are too high because of the millions of EU immigrants.... At the moment you are selling in a relatively prosperous EU country. Good time. Maybe the prices will fall as a result of Brexit. It is too early to predict and Brexit is a few years away.
Click to expand...

Why do you assume that Brexit will have a negative effect on Britain's economy?

Like you say: It is too early to predict and Brexit is a few years away.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • May 6, 2017
  • #3,827
ccfc92 said:
Why do you assume that Brexit will have a negative effect on Britain's economy?

Like you say: It is too early to predict and Brexit is a few years away.
Click to expand...

It is too early to predict accurately, but I think that as far as trade deals are concerned we will be worse off. I don't know definitely of course, but we will be out on our own and are just leaving a powerful trading bloc. The house prices are supposed to be high because of EU immigration and according to Brexit supporters they should come down when immigration subsides or becomes emigration. If they are right, then now is the time to sell - but it is hard to predict whether immigration is the sole cause, or whether immigration will actually be drastically reduced.
 
Reactions: ccfc92

ccfc92

Well-Known Member
  • May 6, 2017
  • #3,828
martcov said:
It is too early to predict accurately, but I think that as far as trade deals are concerned we will be worse off. I don't know definitely of course, but we will be out on our own and are just leaving a powerful trading bloc. The house prices are supposed to be high because of EU immigration and according to Brexit supporters they should come down when immigration subsides or becomes emigration. If they are right, then now is the time to sell - but it is hard to predict whether immigration is the sole cause, or whether immigration will actually be drastically reduced.
Click to expand...

I personally don't believe it's immigration that's raised the house prices, so not all Brexit supporters think that

I am hoping they fall, as I'm hoping to get on the ladder soon myself.
 
Reactions: Deleted member 5849

mrtrench

Well-Known Member
  • May 6, 2017
  • #3,829
martcov said:
No-one knows how long this right wing wave will last.
Click to expand...

Except it's not even right wing either - the present Tory party is only slightly right of centre I'd say.
 
Reactions: Earlsdon_Skyblue1, Kingokings204, ccfc92 and 1 other person

mrtrench

Well-Known Member
  • May 6, 2017
  • #3,830
ccfc92 said:
I personally don't believe it's immigration that's raised the house prices, so not all Brexit supporters think that

I am hoping they fall, as I'm hoping to get on the ladder soon myself.
Click to expand...


Good luck with buying your first house.

There is no one reason for house prices being so crazy but they are driven by supply and demand. Adding 332,000 net immigration per year certainly doesn't help. That's more than the population of Coventry: 313k in 2014, 332k in 2015 and 273k in 2016. 1.13 million over the past 4 years - that's more than the population of Birmingham.

Still think immigration isn't a cause?
 

SIR ERNIE

Well-Known Member
  • May 6, 2017
  • #3,831
mrtrench said:
Except it's not even right wing either - the present Tory party is only slightly right of centre I'd say.
Click to expand...

Correct. Only those with an agenda would disagree.

...Step forward the usual suspects.
 
Reactions: mrtrench

ccfc92

Well-Known Member
  • May 6, 2017
  • #3,832
mrtrench said:
Good luck with buying your first house.

There is no one reason for house prices being so crazy but they are driven by supply and demand. Adding 332,000 net immigration per year certainly doesn't help. That's more than the population of Coventry: 313k in 2014, 332k in 2015 and 273k in 2016. 1.13 million over the past 4 years - that's more than the population of Birmingham.

Still think immigration isn't a cause?
Click to expand...

Thank you Will need it!

I'll be honest, I haven't really looked into it, it's just an uneducated opinion

The only counter argument I can think of off hand, is the amount of empty houses in the country?

Edited.
 
Last edited: May 6, 2017

mrtrench

Well-Known Member
  • May 6, 2017
  • #3,833
ccfc92 said:
I'll be honest, I haven't really looked into it.

The only counter argument I can think of off hand, is the amount of empty houses in the country?
Click to expand...

Supply and demand again. There aren't any empty houses in regions where people want to live.
 
Reactions: ccfc92

ccfc92

Well-Known Member
  • May 6, 2017
  • #3,834
mrtrench said:
Except it's not even right wing either - the present Tory party is only slightly right of centre I'd say.
Click to expand...

I'd agree with this. Society has gone so left wing, any conservative actions appear right wing.

I don't understand why people have to be labelled personally.
 
Last edited: May 6, 2017
Reactions: Earlsdon_Skyblue1

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • May 6, 2017
  • #3,835
ccfc92 said:
Like you say: It is too early to predict and Brexit is a few years away.
Click to expand...
Thats part of the problem. Uncertainly isn't good for the economy and we've got years of it ahead of us.
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • May 6, 2017
  • #3,836
ccfc92 said:
I'd agree with this. Society has gone so left wing, any conservative actions appear right wing.

I don't understand why people have to be labelled personally.
Click to expand...

How has society 'gone so left wing'? When was the last time the UK had a true left wing government? Both Labour and the Tories moved towards the centre and the Tories are now drifting right again.
 
Reactions: martcov

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • May 6, 2017
  • #3,837
The only thing that will bring house prices down would be high interest rates.

Five year deals at 1.7% can be obtained.

A sure indicator that the banking sector doesn't have issues regarding a Brexit collapse.
 

ccfc92

Well-Known Member
  • May 6, 2017
  • #3,838
Sick Boy said:
How has society 'gone so left wing'? When was the last time the UK had a true left wing government? Both Labour and the Tories moved towards the centre and the Tories are now drifting right again.
Click to expand...

I mean the amount of people on benefits, and not working as they're better off on benefits is left wing, wouldn't you say?

However, the corporations not paying tax etc infuriates me just as much.

I just believe, if you can work, you should work for your house, car, possessions etc. Not have them handed to you.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • May 6, 2017
  • #3,839
Sick Boy said:
How has society 'gone so left wing'? When was the last time the UK had a true left wing government? Both Labour and the Tories moved towards the centre and the Tories are now drifting right again.
Click to expand...

The last time was the 1970's. Power cuts, uncompetitive crippled motor car industry, the chancellor crawling to the IMF for hand outs, the dead remained unburied and rubbish uncollected.

Oh and record levels of unemployment.

The good old days.
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • May 6, 2017
  • #3,840
ccfc92 said:
I mean the amount of people on benefits, and not working as they're better off on benefits is left wing, wouldn't you say?.
Click to expand...

No, not really?
 

ccfc92

Well-Known Member
  • May 6, 2017
  • #3,841
Sick Boy said:
No, not really?
Click to expand...

Well surely allowing many people who can work, but choose not to, receive benefits is left leaning than central/right?
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • May 6, 2017
  • #3,842
Grendel said:
The last time was the 1970's. Power cuts, uncompetitive crippled motor car industry, the chancellor crawling to the IMF for hand outs, the dead remained unburied and rubbish uncollected.
Click to expand...
Before my time but wasn't the start of that when pay rises for public sector workers were capped?
 

dutchman

Well-Known Member
  • May 6, 2017
  • #3,843
martcov said:
Good move... sell at the top of the cycle...
Click to expand...

Nobody knows if it's the top of the cycle or not. Prices could rise further.
 

Captain Dart

Well-Known Member
  • May 6, 2017
  • #3,844
chiefdave said:
At the last election the Conservatives got 34,244 votes for every seat they won, Labour required an average of 40,290 to win a seat. With the changes to the constituency boundaries it will be even more in the Conservatives favour this time round. The changes to the boundaries based on the last election would see the Conservatives lose 5% of their MPs while Labour would lose 13%
Click to expand...

What a stupid disingenuous statistic, of course it was like that, mostl Labours seats are in metropolitan areas where there is a relatively large majority. Nevertheless the Tories got 36% of the national vote & Labour got 30%, so the balance of seats was not utterly unreasonable. The biggest boundary crime is that the SNP got 4.7% of the vote and ended up with 56 seats (or 8.6% of the seats). Now Scotland of course was were the Labour party was gerrymandering for many years while they were the party most people voted for, till their vote collapsed and the SNP took it.
 
Reactions: mrtrench

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • May 6, 2017
  • #3,845
chiefdave said:
Before my time but wasn't the start of that when pay rises for public sector workers were capped?
Click to expand...

I think they tried to introduce a 5% cap for all workers and would fine private companies who offered more.

Inflation was running at around 30% I think and it ended up in the Winter of Discontent when unions decided in a freezing cold winter to strike and try and make the labour government concede to absurd wage demands in a bankrupt country.

This ultimately is why Thatcher did what she did. The hard extreme left wing had to be destroyed.

Corbyn is attempting to turn back time. He will be obliterated from history
 
Reactions: RedSalmon and chiefdave

ccfc92

Well-Known Member
  • May 6, 2017
  • #3,846
Out of interest, @Sick Boy and @martcov what are your opinions on Corbyn?
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • May 6, 2017
  • #3,847
ccfc92 said:
Out of interest, @Sick Boy and @martcov what are your opinions on Corbyn?
Click to expand...

I am not a fan of him at all but think May is just as bad a leader.
 
Reactions: ccfc92

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • May 6, 2017
  • #3,848
Biggest Brexit donor urges May to guarantee rights of EU nationals

Finally some common sense, let's hope that the vile May actually listens. Her refusal to take students out of the immigration figures is bizarre as well. Surely the country should be looking to attract talent rather than putting it off?
 
Reactions: martcov

mrtrench

Well-Known Member
  • May 6, 2017
  • #3,849
Grendel said:
interest rates...

Five year deals at 1.7% can be obtained.

A sure indicator that the banking sector doesn't have issues regarding a Brexit collapse.
Click to expand...

Sorry, don't agree. Five year fixed interest rates are low because the markets believe there will be low growth and hence low interest rates for years to come. If they believed that growth was going to pick up they would factor in the higher interest rates that would be needed to control higher inflation caused by higher growth.

Having said that, if you look at a GBP yield curve (which is not exactly the same as fixed rates on mortgages as it doesn't include the banks' margin and there is also a bit of a calculation that goes on to get a swaps rate - which is what is used to determine fixed rates on loans), you can see that the banks are factoring in at least one interest rate hike in the next 12 months. 12 month LIBOR is 0.68% - showing that the banks believe that BoE base will be at least 0.5% by then and possibly 0.75%. So markets are not very pessimistic. 5 years swaps are at 1.29% - so 1.7% mortgages are a bargain IMO. This is only my opinion.
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • May 6, 2017
  • #3,850
mrtrench said:
Except it's not even right wing either - the present Tory party is only slightly right of centre I'd say.
Click to expand...

Incredible.
 
Reactions: Johnnythespider, Liquid Gold, Sick Boy and 1 other person
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