The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (14 Viewers)

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Jul 10, 2019

SkyblueBazza said:
Hmmm...a bit like the people that were banging on about Thatcher ruining communities by closing mines...now banging on about climate-change?

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But she wasn't doing it for that reason. She was doing it because she wanted everyone working in finance and services and moving to the SE. She didn't do it because she had massive environmental concerns - that's just a by-product that makes her decision seem less shitty. She could've closed the mines and set up manufacturing/R&D etc on sustainable renewable energy to replace those jobs. She didn't, because she didn't give a fuck.

Personally I felt it was the right thing to close the mines, even at the time. It was a finite resource and not particularly efficient. What was completely unacceptable was not putting in place any kind of plan to replace those jobs in those coal regions with those in industries she wanted to promote. They were all created in London/SE.

SkyblueBazza · Jul 11, 2019

Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
But she wasn't doing it for that reason. She was doing it because she wanted everyone working in finance and services and moving to the SE. She didn't do it because she had massive environmental concerns - that's just a by-product that makes her decision seem less shitty. She could've closed the mines and set up manufacturing/R&D etc on sustainable renewable energy to replace those jobs. She didn't, because she didn't give a fuck.

Personally I felt it was the right thing to close the mines, even at the time. It was a finite resource and not particularly efficient. What was completely unacceptable was not putting in place any kind of plan to replace those jobs in those coal regions with those in industries she wanted to promote. They were all created in London/SE.

The reasons are irrelevant. What I am saying is that I strongly suspect that those of mindset predisposed to rant about the destruction of commumities are of the same/similar mindset of those predisposed to rant about the destruction of the environment. Just demonstrating a grand hypocrisy.

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skybluetony176 · Jul 11, 2019

SkyblueBazza said:
The reasons are irrelevant. What I am saying is that I strongly suspect that those of mindset predisposed to rant about the destruction of commumities are of the same/similar mindset of those predisposed to rant about the destruction of the environment. Just demonstrating a grand hypocrisy.

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Climate change just wasn’t a phrase you heard at the time of the miner strikes. It’s maybe just possible that people were unaware of climate change at the time and been educated later in life to have an opinion on it. Not sure how that is hypocrisy.

Deleted member 5849 · Jul 11, 2019

Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
But she wasn't doing it for that reason. She was doing it because she wanted everyone working in finance and services and moving to the SE. She didn't do it because she had massive environmental concerns - that's just a by-product that makes her decision seem less shitty. She could've closed the mines and set up manufacturing/R&D etc on sustainable renewable energy to replace those jobs. She didn't, because she didn't give a fuck.

Personally I felt it was the right thing to close the mines, even at the time. It was a finite resource and not particularly efficient. What was completely unacceptable was not putting in place any kind of plan to replace those jobs in those coal regions with those in industries she wanted to promote. They were all created in London/SE.

It was also unacceptable to close them but import coal from Poland instead

martcov · Jul 11, 2019

Deleted member 5849 said:
It was also unacceptable to close them but import coal from Poland instead

It was political. Take the power from the mining unions who had blackmailed the country and caused the 3 day week.

Nothing to do with climate change whatsoever. Pointless people trying to equate it with the same people „banging on“ about climate change.

Astute · Jul 11, 2019

skybluetony176 said:
I’ll never understand why people who voted leave didn’t understand what parliamentary democracy is. It was always going to be like this, the ones whinging about it is the ones who voted for it. Go figure.

That means you and Mart definitely voted for it.

Astute · Jul 11, 2019

martcov said:
2016 52% of people bothered to vote. 2019 about half.

Twisting the truth again unless you are counting children and babies yet again.

Astute · Jul 11, 2019

SkyblueBazza said:
If the said army has an opt-out on going to war it renders it as laughable as some of the other contentious shite the EU produces.

Think Ukraine - had they been in the EU when part-occupied (Crimea) by Russia - how strongly on a scale of 1-10 do you believe the EU army would 've been deployed to reclaim it?

I think they would still be talking about what action to take...so 1!!!

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There are many reasons why thise on here that say an EU army would be a good thing don't want to talk about it.

skybluetony176 · Jul 11, 2019

Astute said:
That means you and Mart definitely voted for it.

I don’t think I’ve moaned about parliamentary sovereignty. Feel free to point out where if you like and I’ll happily concede the point.

Astute · Jul 11, 2019

skybluetony176 said:
I don’t think I’ve moaned about parliamentary sovereignty. Feel free to point out where if you like and I’ll happily concede the point.

Yeah it would be cool to look through over 1,000 pages when at work.

So you have never whinged when it has gone against what you say you want? Because you whinge all the time. But if something looks good for the EU or bad for the UK you celebrate.

skybluetony176 · Jul 11, 2019

Astute said:
Yeah it would be cool to look through over 1,000 pages when at work.

So you have never whinged when it has gone against what you say you want? Because you whinge all the time. But if something looks good for the EU or bad for the UK you celebrate.

That’s a no then. I haven’t. Your apology will be accepted with good grace.

Astute · Jul 11, 2019

skybluetony176 said:
That’s a no then. I haven’t. Your apology will be accepted with good grace.

What is a no? Are you disagreeing with what I have said? Because everyone on here knows it is true.

westcountry_skyblue · Jul 11, 2019

Thatcher vs Scargill,No contest he was out of his depth.

martcov · Jul 11, 2019

westcountry_skyblue said:
Thatcher vs Scargill,No contest he was out of his depth.

In one year in a UK magazine ( I cannot remember which one ), Scargill was named "man of the year" and Thatcher "woman of the year". I was driving through the DDR ( East Germany ) and their state radio announced that Scargill, a worker's leader, was man of the year in the UK, but didn't mention Thatcher being woman of the year. It was a tough contest and people died.

skybluetony176 · Jul 11, 2019

Astute said:
What is a no? Are you disagreeing with what I have said? Because everyone on here knows it is true.

Where have I complained about parliamentary sovereignty then?

Astute · Jul 11, 2019

skybluetony176 said:
Where have I complained about parliamentary sovereignty then?

If it has ever in any way done or said anything that you could say was against remain or the EU in any slight way. That is a guarantee.

skybluetony176 · Jul 11, 2019

Astute said:
If it has ever in any way done or said anything that you could say was against remain or the EU in any slight way. That is a guarantee.

Like I said then. A no. Your apology will be graciously received.

SkyblueBazza · Jul 12, 2019

Meanwhile...
German SPD lists von der Leyen failures in damning paper to EU peers - Reuters

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shmmeee · Jul 12, 2019

SkyBlueDom26 said:
'Little England' do you hate your own country?
Less than half actually, don't think remain got 50% in the vote do you? Shows how much you know... deluded

No one got 50% of the people.

Also more recent polling shows a swing to Remain b

Deleted member 5849 · Jul 12, 2019

SkyBlueDom26 said:
remoaners

Dickhead

Deleted member 5849 · Jul 12, 2019

Anne Widdecombe meanwhile is on the Crystal Maze. Good to see she's making a step up in serious debates and campaigns from her recent efforts.

Astute · Jul 13, 2019

skybluetony176 said:
Like I said then. A no. Your apology will be graciously received.

Exactly. You won't answer any questions because you would end up contradicting yourself yet again.

Astute · Jul 13, 2019

Deleted member 5849 said:
Anne Widdecombe meanwhile is on the Crystal Maze. Good to see she's making a step up in serious debates and campaigns from her recent efforts.

Seemed more like she was on crystal meths.

SkyblueBazza · Jul 17, 2019

"She secured 383 votes to 327 against, said David Sassoli, speaker of the assembly. The threshold was 374.
With 52% support, von der Leyen’s victory..." (Reuters) should have Mart, Tony & Clint leading calls for a second vote to overturn or confirm her appointment as what the European Parliament really want!?

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shmmeee · Jul 17, 2019

SkyblueBazza said:
Hmmm...a bit like the people that were banging on about Thatcher ruining communities by closing mines...now banging on about climate-change?

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Oh dear. another conspiracy theorist.

Can we go back and shoot Tim Berners-Lee please? He’s got a lot to answer for.

SkyblueBazza · Jul 17, 2019

shmmeee said:
Oh dear. another conspiracy theorist.

Can we go back and shoot Tim Berners-Lee please? He’s got a lot to answer for.

There is no conspiracy. They have relentlessly pursued & led calls (on here) for a second referendum because 52% is not a big enough margin to action the result given that Brexit will in their opinion massively & negatively impact the lives of 60-70million people.
Von der Leyen's track record has provided many considerable concern...& she could massively & negatively impact the lives of 700million people!

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Deleted member 5849 · Jul 17, 2019

Some day that point will be found, and we'll all gave a big party.

SkyblueBazza · Jul 17, 2019

Deleted member 5849 said:
Some day that point will be found, and we'll all gave a big party.

Let's hope so...& let's hope it is soon

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martcov · Jul 17, 2019

SkyblueBazza said:
"She secured 383 votes to 327 against, said David Sassoli, speaker of the assembly. The threshold was 374.
With 52% support, von der Leyen’s victory..." (Reuters) should have Mart, Tony & Clint leading calls for a second vote to overturn or confirm her appointment as what the European Parliament really want!?

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No. The people who voted for VderL had cross examined her and asked for their demands to be met in many meetings she had with the leaders of the party groupings. They knew what she is considering for her program and they will have another chance to vote in October when she has got her team together and more details on her policies. The confirmatory vote.

They are not relying on Banks, Wigmore, Farage, the Mail, the Express,the Sun, the Telegraph and various politicians like RM, IDS, Bone, Lilly to provide them with information ( coupled with foreign influence on SM ).

They made a relatively informed decision. And they still have the chance to vote on her team in October. Nothing like the flawed referendum.

martcov · Jul 17, 2019

SkyblueBazza said:
There is no conspiracy. They have relentlessly pursued & led calls (on here) for a second referendum because 52% is not a big enough margin to action the result given that Brexit will in their opinion massively & negatively impact the lives of 60-70million people.
Von der Leyen's track record has provided many considerable concern...& she could massively & negatively impact the lives of 700million people!

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VdL is there for 5 years before the next election. Brexit is stupid idea which could damage the country for generations.

The people who voted in the referendum did not have the chance to negotiate with the people carrying it out, be told what the workable plan was, or to reject one form of leave to have it replaced by another option.

A totally different vote. Maybe our parliament should have done as the EU. Give someone the job of negotiating a deal taking into account of people’s ideas, put it to the EU, reach a deal and then have it ratified by the UK parliament, or rejected and then try again until an acceptable game plan is ratified. Then hold a confirmatory referendum. Then trigger article 50, with an agreed deal in place to take effect immediately after the referendum. In other words have the arguments, and a signed deal before leaving.

dutchman · Jul 17, 2019

martcov said:
No. The people who voted for VderL had cross examined her and asked for their demands to be met in many meetings she had with the leaders of the party groupings. They knew what she is considering for her program and they will have another chance to vote in October when she has got her team together and more details on her policies. The confirmatory vote.

You don't think she'll be confirmed in October then?

CCFCSteve · Jul 17, 2019

martcov said:
VdL is there for 5 years before the next election. Brexit is stupid idea which could damage the country for generations.

The people who voted in the referendum did not have the chance to negotiate with the people carrying it out, be told what the workable plan was, or to reject one form of leave to have it replaced by another option.

A totally different vote. Maybe our parliament should have done as the EU. Give someone the job of negotiating a deal taking into account of people’s ideas, put it to the EU, reach a deal and then have it ratified by the UK parliament, or rejected and then try again until an acceptable game plan is ratified. Then hold a confirmatory referendum. Then trigger article 50, with an agreed deal in place to take effect immediately after the referendum. In other words have the arguments, and a signed deal before leaving.

I appreciate the above appears sensible in theory, however, it never would’ve happened as the EU have never wanted us to leave. They would never offer a sensible deal pre confirmatory referendum as there’s no incentive for them to.

Also, from memory the EU refused to even discuss ‘a deal’ until we triggered Article 50, then they said until we had resolved citizens rights (always going to be straight forward), the divorce bill and the northern island backstop (far less straight forward) they wouldn’t discuss a trade deal

Unfortunately whilst this may have given the EU leverage in the negotiations, it’s made an even greater mess of an already messy situation.

If the trade deal could have been discussed in conjunction with the other issues it may have simplified matters (whilst Davis may have been incompetent as a Brexit secretary - partly his own doing, partly due to Mays involvement - he pushed hard for this but was ignored)

It may well have meant the backstop would have been irrelevant/redundant as the trade agreement would have incorporated any border requirements and/or solutions

Barnier is no doubt an excellent negotiator (far better than our useless lot), however, a lot of the issues arising now are due to the sequencing of discussions and events which were dictated by the EU.

Alan Dugdales Moustache · Jul 17, 2019

martcov said:
If the EU army had been in Ukraine and the EU army had been in NATO, Putin would not have been in the Ukraine. The question is irrelevant. Noticed that he hasn’t invaded Estonia or Latvia?

That's just your opinion. Its not a fact. Prove otherwise.

chiefdave · Jul 17, 2019

SkyblueBazza said:
"She secured 383 votes to 327 against, said David Sassoli, speaker of the assembly. The threshold was 374.
With 52% support, von der Leyen’s victory..." (Reuters) should have Mart, Tony & Clint leading calls for a second vote to overturn or confirm her appointment as what the European Parliament really want!?

Alan Dugdales Moustache · Jul 17, 2019

martcov said:
Explain. The vast majority of scientists and most governments are banging on about climate change. You can see it happening without having to ask a scientist. More CO2 in the air = warming.

We are producing huge amounts of CO2. Hmmm...

The people denying it think that Trump is clever, that Brexit is a good idea and that all Muslims are bad people... and big up Farage, the BXP and/ or UKIP. Why is that?

You have proof that all Brexit voters like Trump and think all Muslims are bad. Show some evidence .

The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (14 Viewers)

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