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The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (13 Viewers)

  • Thread starter jimmyhillsfanclub
  • Start date Jun 8, 2016
Forums New posts

As of right now, how are thinking of voting? In or out

  • Remain

    Votes: 23 37.1%
  • Leave

    Votes: 35 56.5%
  • Undecided

    Votes: 3 4.8%
  • Not registered or not intention to vote

    Votes: 1 1.6%

  • Total voters
    62
  • Poll closed Jun 15, 2016.
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M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 9, 2019
  • #37,801
Astute said:
No idea why I mentioned Germany?


So are you saying that you didn't say only France and England have form for invading or attacking other countries or didn't Germany ever invade or attack other countries?

Same as usual. You try to make the EU and Germany not guilty of anything but like to blame the UK for as much as you can.
Click to expand...

I am talking about the EU, not last century pre Treaty of Rome.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 9, 2019
  • #37,802
Astute said:
Did you? Show me the bit I missed out then. Because I can't find it.
Click to expand...

I was talking about the EU. That is what the thread is about. It’s at the top of the page. The subject was the EU army and I said war would be less likely as Germany doesn’t do war.

This is relevant to an EU army, not 20 century history. Present Day facts.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 9, 2019
  • #37,803
Astute said:
Did you? Show me the bit I missed out then. Because I can't find it.
Click to expand...

Look at the top of the thread. EU. Remember what we are talking about: EU army.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 9, 2019
  • #37,804
Alan Dugdales Moustache said:
Hahah. Did the dirty old man forget his beloved Germany were past masters at invasion? His mind is on other things perhaps.
Click to expand...

Thick c**t. Troll off you dumbfuck.
 

Alan Dugdales Moustache

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 9, 2019
  • #37,805
martcov said:
Thick c**t. Troll off you dumbfuck.
Click to expand...
What's all this about good looking blokes as well as good looking girls ? You are a dirty dog, as my mum would say.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 9, 2019
  • #37,806
Alan Dugdales Moustache said:
What's all this about good looking blokes as well as good looking girls ? You are a dirty dog, as my mum would say.
Click to expand...

You are a sick c**t as I would say. Now troll off you wanker.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 9, 2019
  • #37,807
Alan Dugdales Moustache said:
What's all this about good looking blokes as well as good looking girls ? You are a dirty dog, as my mum would say.
Click to expand...

Your life must be empty without Mart. Putting him on permanent block lasted all of 2 days. Have you ever thought about a hobby that gets you out the house?
 

Alan Dugdales Moustache

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 9, 2019
  • #37,808
martcov said:
I was talking about the EU. That is what the thread is about. It’s at the top of the page. The subject was the EU army and I said war would be less likely as Germany doesn’t do war.
.
Click to expand...
HAHAHAHA. Absolutely the best statement of fact ever. You get a like for that .
 
Reactions: Astute

Alan Dugdales Moustache

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 9, 2019
  • #37,809
skybluetony176 said:
Your life must be empty without Mart. Putting him on permanent block lasted all of 2 days. Have you ever thought about a hobby that gets you out the house?
Click to expand...
Have you ?
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 9, 2019
  • #37,810
Alan Dugdales Moustache said:
Have you ?
Click to expand...

Have I what? Taken someone of block 2 days after telling everyone I was putting them on permanent block because I’m lonely? No never.
 
Reactions: martcov

Alan Dugdales Moustache

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 9, 2019
  • #37,811
skybluetony176 said:
Have I what? Taken someone of block 2 days after telling everyone I was putting them on permanent block because I’m lonely? No never.
Click to expand...
That's great.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 9, 2019
  • #37,812
Alan Dugdales Moustache said:
HAHAHAHA. Absolutely the best statement of fact ever. You get a like for that .
Click to expand...

It is a statement of fact. It is written into their constitution. Germany cannot enter a war without changing it’s constitution, except when attacked. But, you are thick and ignorant so you wouldn’t be aware of that.

Whilst you were trolling on here, I met the Irish President, had a chat with Coveney, the deputy PM, had a few drinks with the lads, met a nice woman at the bar and spent the night with her.

What did you do? Write stupid troll posts mocking someone you don’t even know for entertainment.

Well, I know what I would rather be doing for entertainment. It wouldn’t be stupid posts that you call „good old fashioned piss taking“, which are not even funny. No wit. No witty comebacks. Just a sad, lonely and ignorant troll. Wanker.
 

Alan Dugdales Moustache

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 9, 2019
  • #37,813
martcov said:
It is a statement of fact. It is written into their constitution. Germany cannot enter a war without changing it’s constitution, except when attacked. But, you are thick and ignorant so you wouldn’t be aware of that.

Whilst you were trolling on here, I met the Irish President, had a chat with Coveney, the deputy PM, had a few drinks with the lads, met a nice woman at the bar and spent the night with her.

What did you do? Write stupid troll posts mocking someone you don’t even know for entertainment.

Well, I know what I would rather be doing for entertainment. It wouldn’t be stupid posts that you call „good old fashioned piss taking“, which are not even funny. No wit. No witty comebacks. Just a sad, lonely and ignorant troll. Wanker.
Click to expand...
You do realise that you're just setting yourself up for laughs. I mean, have you read this back ?
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 9, 2019
  • #37,814
Alan Dugdales Moustache said:
You do realise that you're just setting yourself up for laughs. I mean, have you read this back ?
Click to expand...

One thing you don’t get is laughs. Even your part time supporters have gone quiet. You’re a no-one trying to mob someone on an Internet forum.

You’re pathetic.

Trolling for entertainment.

Sad.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 9, 2019
  • #37,815
We will be calling the shots when we leave:

US says Brexit trade talks with Liam Fox cancelled amid mounting fury over leaked Trump memos
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 9, 2019
  • #37,816
Sky Blue Pete said:
Yep it is a farce
Click to expand...

So you prefer a presidential system?
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 9, 2019
  • #37,817
martcov said:
We will be calling the shots when we leave:

US says Brexit trade talks with Liam Fox cancelled amid mounting fury over leaked Trump memos
Click to expand...

Trump just wants his mate Boris in charge
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 9, 2019
  • #37,818
Grendel said:
Trump just wants his mate Boris in charge
Click to expand...

And Farage as ambassador.. a walk over. MAGA.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 9, 2019
  • #37,819
Alan Dugdales Moustache said:
You do realise that you're just setting yourself up for laughs. I mean, have you read this back ?
Click to expand...

They weren’t allowed to last time they invaded most of Europe - oddly they just ignored the treaty preventing them and just did - his argument is idiotic as wars often start through an illegal aggressive act
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 9, 2019
  • #37,820
Grendel said:
They weren’t allowed to last time they invaded most of Europe - oddly they just ignored the treaty preventing them and just did - his argument is idiotic as wars often start through an illegal aggressive act
Click to expand...

Not when they need the agreement of 26 other EU countries and there is an EU army, which is what we are talking about. Plus Germany is an established stable democracy and not occupied by neighbouring countries or paying back reparations imposed by a penal treaty after the armistice.

Being part of an EU makes it harder for an individual country to go to war.

Anything is theoretically possible, I’ll give you that, but Germany is extremely unlikely to change the constitution as it needs a two thirds majority. In an EU army, they would be even more constrained.

The UK and France have been involved in attacking other countries, whereas, until now the Germans have held to their constitution.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 9, 2019
  • #37,821
Grendel said:
Trump just wants his mate Boris in charge
Click to expand...

Didn’t Boris once describe Trump as “clearly out of his mind” and someone who demonstrates “quite stupefying ignorance”? Just shows Boris will change his mind on anything to get into No 10.
 

Alan Dugdales Moustache

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 9, 2019
  • #37,822
martcov said:
One thing you don’t get is laughs. Even your part time supporters have gone quiet. You’re a no-one trying to mob someone on an Internet forum.
You’re pathetic.
Trolling for entertainment.
Sad.
Click to expand...
But I don't just make things up to tell the world what a great life I have. You, on the other hand , are the best in the business.
 
Reactions: Astute

Alan Dugdales Moustache

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 9, 2019
  • #37,823
martcov said:
Not when they need the agreement of 26 other EU countries and there is an EU army, which is what we are talking about. Plus Germany is an established stable democracy and not occupied by neighbouring countries.
Click to expand...
We are going to go to war.
No you're not.
Oh alright then .
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 10, 2019
  • #37,824
skybluetony176 said:
Backtracking after repeatedly claiming this “Because if there was an EU army we wouldn't have any choice on going to war”. Note the quote marks, that means I’m quoting you directly. That’s your words, not one word has been changed by me. You’ll still accuse me of twisting no doubt.
Click to expand...
No. I accuse you of acting like a complete idiot.

You have never answered one question on the subject yet constantly come out with false comments and lies.

How about the list I put on here of what could or would happen if there was an EU army. But of course it is to do with the EU so nothing can be wrong.

You have come a long way on here. Coming out with propaganda for Farage and UKIP whilst making racist comments all the way to coming out with EU propaganda. Well done
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 10, 2019
  • #37,825
martcov said:
I am talking about the EU, not last century pre Treaty of Rome.
Click to expand...
So name a list of where the UK and France have invaded yet Germany hasn't.

You said nothing other than only France and the UK has attacked and invaded other countries. Full stop.

So if you want to go down this line.....

Germany and France are getting very close. Agree?

Macron wants yet another German at the top of the EU. Agree?

She is happy for the UK to leave the EU because we keep making it difficult for this EU army to get off the ground. Agree?

If we leave the EU there will only be two countries in the EU that attack and invade other countries. Agree?
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 10, 2019
  • #37,826
martcov said:
I was talking about the EU. That is what the thread is about. It’s at the top of the page. The subject was the EU army and I said war would be less likely as Germany doesn’t do war.

This is relevant to an EU army, not 20 century history. Present Day facts.
Click to expand...
Germany doesn't do war?

My mother was born the year after the last big war they started. You would have been born just after it. I was born just 23 years after it and I am 51. Yet they don't do war........

Who started the last world war?

Who started the world war before it?

I can't believe how low you have gone this time. And that is saying something .
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 10, 2019
  • #37,827
martcov said:
Not when they need the agreement of 26 other EU countries and there is an EU army, which is what we are talking about. Plus Germany is an established stable democracy and not occupied by neighbouring countries or paying back reparations imposed by a penal treaty after the armistice.

Being part of an EU makes it harder for an individual country to go to war.

Anything is theoretically possible, I’ll give you that, but Germany is extremely unlikely to change the constitution as it needs a two thirds majority. In an EU army, they would be even more constrained.

The UK and France have been involved in attacking other countries, whereas, until now the Germans have held to their constitution.
Click to expand...
So how about answering my list of how it would go for once.
Astute said:
You also need to make your mind up.

If there was an EU army would we have our own armed forces? If yes then Iraq could still happen.

If no......

So what would happen if we got attacked by another country? What would happen if something similar to the Falklands happened? Would the EU army sort it out?

If no then we would be in a weaker position. If yes.....

So there are 28 countries in the EU army. All 28 countries need their territories defending. Would we go into action to defend all 28?

To me these are a few questions that would need answering. As of yet there are no correct or incorrect answers. But an army that looks after 28 countries is a lot more complex than one that looks after one. There are a lot of mad people on this earth. Look at North Korea for example. Instead of making war less of a chance it could multiply the chances.

And no. We don't have the answers. Yes. I care about my future generations. Yes I am right to be worried.
Click to expand...
So answer which way it would go.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 10, 2019
  • #37,828
Astute said:
So how about answering my list of how it would go for once.

So answer which way it would go.
Click to expand...

I don’t know if all troops would be merged.

Germany doesn’t have colonies or dependencies to protect. The UK has the Commonwealth ( is a member of )and Crown Dependencies where it may have reasons to intervene. Maybe there would have to be a separate extra force for the UK, but not for Germany or other countries, e.g. Estonia. No one knows.

Iraq would be less likely even if the UK kept some force for protecting it’s dependencies because it couldn’t get involved in such an adventure without the USA, or cooperation, or maybe permission, from the other EU countries as it would risk involvement for them.

I can’t see the EU as a whole wanting to get involved with adventure wars.

We don’t know what an EU army would look like as there are no imminent plans.

IMO it wouldn’t be a bad thing if the mandate was designed to prevent adventures like Iraq.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 10, 2019
  • #37,829
Astute said:
Germany doesn't do war?

My mother was born the year after the last big war they started. You would have been born just after it. I was born just 23 years after it and I am 51. Yet they don't do war........

Who started the last world war?

Who started the world war before it?

I can't believe how low you have gone this time. And that is saying something .
Click to expand...

How low? It just a fact. Germany has a constitution banning it going into war. It would need a two thirds majority to change that and nobody is even thinking of that.

I think you are referring to past wars where they didn’t have a constitution ruling out wars and were ruled by a Kaiser or a right wing nationalist dictator. I am referring to the present as we are talking about an EU army. Germany wants to be part of an EU army to prevent more European wars.

There are no immediate plans for an EU army that go further than logistical cooperation and joint peacekeeping missions.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 10, 2019
  • #37,830
Astute said:
So name a list of where the UK and France have invaded yet Germany hasn't.

You said nothing other than only France and the UK has attacked and invaded other countries. Full stop.

So if you want to go down this line.....

Germany and France are getting very close. Agree?

Macron wants yet another German at the top of the EU. Agree?

She is happy for the UK to leave the EU because we keep making it difficult for this EU army to get off the ground. Agree?

If we leave the EU there will only be two countries in the EU that attack and invade other countries. Agree?
Click to expand...

It is easier for you to list where Germany has invaded since the grounding of the common market or the ratification of the German constitution.

Britain and France have been involved in bombing and/ or invading other countries since the war. Germany hasn’t.

Yet another German? There hasn’t been a German President of the EU commission for over 50 years. The nationality of the person is less relevant than the political grouping who vote her in.

She is not happy that the UK is leaving. No one is. Including over half the UK. Where do you get your information?

If we leave, there will only be one major country that bombs and attacks other countries in the EU as Germany is bound not to by it’s constitution. Which will increase the chances of an EU army.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 10, 2019
  • #37,831
Alan Dugdales Moustache said:
But I don't just make things up to tell the world what a great life I have. You, on the other hand , are the best in the business.
Click to expand...

I am not making things up. I don’t have to. I am not claiming to have a great life. I am claiming to have a better life than a sad internet troll who stalks and trolls someone he doesn’t even know on the internet.

I don’t know why you don’t try and improve your social life instead of trolling from your keyboard. Must be problems there.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 10, 2019
  • #37,832
Astute said:
No. I accuse you of acting like a complete idiot.

You have never answered one question on the subject yet constantly come out with false comments and lies.

How about the list I put on here of what could or would happen if there was an EU army. But of course it is to do with the EU so nothing can be wrong.

You have come a long way on here. Coming out with propaganda for Farage and UKIP whilst making racist comments all the way to coming out with EU propaganda. Well done
Click to expand...

I quoted you directly. If it’s false comments and lies then you should really stop saying them.
 
Reactions: martcov

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 10, 2019
  • #37,833
Astute said:
Germany doesn't do war?

My mother was born the year after the last big war they started. You would have been born just after it. I was born just 23 years after it and I am 51. Yet they don't do war........

Who started the last world war?

Who started the world war before it?

I can't believe how low you have gone this time. And that is saying something .
Click to expand...

He’s clearly talking about modern Germany not Nazi germany. It’s got to be an act, you can’t be that stupid that you can’t see the distinction in real life.
 
Reactions: martcov
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 10, 2019
  • #37,834
skybluetony176 said:
He’s clearly talking about modern Germany not Nazi germany. It’s got to be an act, you can’t be that stupid that you can’t see the distinction in real life.
Click to expand...

That is the problem. People talk as the hear things. Mark Francois, Farage and co talk about the war ( and films like Dunkirk ) and Brexiters talk as if Germany is still a Nazi dictatorship ( 4. Reich ). It comes to a point where some people still think Germany is in 1945 and want the the UK to be like 1955 by leaving the EU. A lot has happened since 1945. the World is different now.

Germany was surrounded by borders to competing nation states. It had 9 borders when I came here. 8 now, but 7 are now EU countries, and 1 EEA and in Schengen.

The risk of a German led or retaliatory war in Europe is almost nil. A fantastic achievement.

But still some do not want to understand reality.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 10, 2019
  • #37,835
martcov said:
That is the problem. People talk as the hear things. Mark Francois, Farage and co talk about the war ( and films like Dunkirk ) and Brexiters talk as if Germany is still a Nazi dictatorship ( 4. Reich ). It comes to a point where some people still think Germany is in 1945 and want the the UK to be like 1955 by leaving the EU. A lot has happened since 1945. the World is different now.

Germany was surrounded by borders to competing nation states. It had 9 borders when I came here. 8 now, but 7 are now EU countries, and 1 EEA and in Schengen.

The risk of a German led or retaliatory war in Europe is almost nil. A fantastic achievement.

But still some do not want to understand reality.
Click to expand...

That’s the real funny thing. People that tend to be from the side that use words like Dunkirk spirit, what would Churchill do etc are much nearer to the politics of someone like Oswald Mosley than Churchill.
 
Reactions: martcov
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